MorningStar Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 My oldest son is in 6th grade and has to do quite a few fundraisers this year to earn $100 towards field trips. We just had a car wash on Saturday where he and I both worked through two shifts.Yesterday he came home and said their next fundraiser is selling coffee door to door. So he asked me if I would go door to door with him. I said, "If we were Jewish, I don't think we would sell bacon to people. I think it would be a little weird for us to sell coffee."Do you think it's weird for a Mormon to sell coffee? As a Mormon, would you let your child sell it? I told my son it wasn't that we saw it as evil, but it's not something we consider healthy. What happened to selling chocolate bars, cookie dough, etc.? This seems like a strange fundraiser for children. He's bent out of shape because he had to sit through a meeting about selling it. They're going to sell coupon books too, so hopefully that will bring in enough.
Calm Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 I would not sell something I couldn't personally endorse.If there is another option, then it seems logical to simply put more effort into that rather than trying to sell something you know nothing about (which is why it is a very strange item for kids to sell in my opinion).
Zakuska Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 (edited) My oldest son is in 6th grade and has to do quite a few fundraisers this year to earn $100 towards field trips. We just had a car wash on Saturday where he and I both worked through two shifts.Yesterday he came home and said their next fundraiser is selling coffee door to door. So he asked me if I would go door to door with him. I said, "If we were Jewish, I don't think we would sell bacon to people. I think it would be a little weird for us to sell coffee."Do you think it's weird for a Mormon to sell coffee? As a Mormon, would you let your child sell it? I told my son it wasn't that we saw it as evil, but it's not something we consider healthy. What happened to selling chocolate bars, cookie dough, etc.? This seems like a strange fundraiser for children. He's bent out of shape because he had to sit through a meeting about selling it. They're going to sell coupon books too, so hopefully that will bring in enough.Something to consider...Joseph Smith in Nauvoo:There was apparently never any prohibition on the sale of beer and ale, and on April 9, 1842, the council acted to license taverns and ordinaries in the town to sell beer but not spirits. But on May 14, [Joseph] Smith recorded, "I attended city council in the morning, and…spoke at length for the repeal of the ordinance…licensing merchants, hawkers, taverns, and ordinaries, desiring that this might be a free people, and enjoy equal rights and privileges, and the ordinances were repealed."[4] Edited September 13, 2011 by Zakuska 1
Senator Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 but it's not something we consider healthy. What happened to selling chocolate bars, cookie dough, etc.? ...and these are healthy??Sell 1
blueadept Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 After putting 2 years of effort into fundraising for my girls and I to go to Portugal/Spain last month, the thing I learned is to put my efforts into those fundraisers that worked best for my talents and not worry so much about the fundraisers that didn't work as well for me. I could work a car wash half a day and maybe earn $15 to $20 or I could work a yard job for 2 hrs and earn $40. Sell bake sale stuff and maybe earn $20 or sell Marie Calendar Pies to my friends for a week and make $300. What worked well for me may not work well for others trying to do the same fundraiser. If it bothers you to sell the coffee, just put your efforts into one of the other fundraisers.My 2 cents
Maidservant Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 (edited) Do you think it's weird for a Mormon to sell coffee? As a Mormon, would you let your child sell it? I think no, personally, I wouldn't let my children participate.I mean, I could bring up a whole bunch of slippery slope arguments that probably won't float as a reason why not to. And I'm not sure I'm convinced by your "it's not healthy" rationale, but I understand where you were trying to go with that (not be condemnatory). But when it comes right down to it, it just doesn't make sense to me and I would be extremely uncomfortable to be in that position myself, to be selling coffee directly to someone else. So I think less so for my child. On the other hand, lots of Mormons own grocery stores and restaurants and sell coffee, and so it's not a right/wrong situation. When my dad comes to visit, he makes coffee on my stove (etc etc). Heck, I know Mormons who sell liquor in their restaurants. It's just not something I personally could do.But I would trust your parental instincts. The universe isn't going to explode if he sells it. The universe isn't going to explode if he doesn't. Edited September 13, 2011 by Maidservant
MorningStar Posted September 13, 2011 Author Posted September 13, 2011 ...and these are healthy??SellYes! I NEED THEM!!!! Even when I was in high school, most of my friends did not drink coffee. It was considered something adults do. But now we have a Starbucks on every other corner, so I guess I shouldn't be that surprised.
MorningStar Posted September 13, 2011 Author Posted September 13, 2011 I think no, personally, I wouldn't let my children participate.I mean, I could bring up a whole bunch of slippery slope arguments that probably won't float as a reason why not to. And I'm not sure I'm convinced by your "it's not healthy" rationale, but I understand where you were trying to go with that (not be condemnatory). But when it comes right down to it, it just doesn't make sense to me and I would be extremely uncomfortable to be in that position myself, to be selling coffee directly to someone else. So I think less so for my child. On the other hand, lots of Mormons own grocery stores and restaurants and sell coffee, and so it's not a right/wrong situation. When my dad comes to visit, he makes coffee on my stove (etc etc). Heck, I know Mormons who sell liquor in their restaurants. It's just not something I personally could do.But I would trust your parental instincts. The universe isn't going to explode if he sells it. The universe isn't going to explode if he doesn't.I was just explaining to my son that we don't see coffee as "evil", so we shouldn't be offended if people do drink it. We tell our kids that we don't play sports on Sundays, but we drive by a field every Sunday right by our church and they say, "OH! THOSE PEOPLE ARE PLAYING SPORTS AND IT'S SUNDAY!!!!" I'm trying to teach them that we can live our religion without looking down on others with different beliefs.
blueadept Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 I was just explaining to my son that we don't see coffee as "evil", so we shouldn't be offended if people do drink it. We tell our kids that we don't play sports on Sundays, but we drive by a field every Sunday right by our church and they say, "OH! THOSE PEOPLE ARE PLAYING SPORTS AND IT'S SUNDAY!!!!" I'm trying to teach them that we can live our religion without looking down on others with different beliefs.Kudos for making this a learning opportunity for your kids.
Zakuska Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 Kudos for making this a learning opportunity for your kids. Amen.
3DOP Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 My oldest son is in 6th grade and has to do quite a few fundraisers this year to earn $100 towards field trips. We just had a car wash on Saturday where he and I both worked through two shifts.Yesterday he came home and said their next fundraiser is selling coffee door to door. So he asked me if I would go door to door with him. I said, "If we were Jewish, I don't think we would sell bacon to people. I think it would be a little weird for us to sell coffee."Do you think it's weird for a Mormon to sell coffee? As a Mormon, would you let your child sell it? I told my son it wasn't that we saw it as evil, but it's not something we consider healthy. What happened to selling chocolate bars, cookie dough, etc.? This seems like a strange fundraiser for children. He's bent out of shape because he had to sit through a meeting about selling it. They're going to sell coupon books too, so hopefully that will bring in enough.As a Catholic I could never have let my children sell things that are forbidden by my faith. Not for the wide world. This is a teaching and learning moment that is a million times more important for the integrity of your child's belief system than whether he gets to go on a field trip. How confusing to a 6th Grader. We can't drink coffee but we can sell it? Lovingly explain and he'll understand. I say this to help you teach your child to learn decision making and to be more confident at everything he ever puts his hand to. 2
MorningStar Posted September 13, 2011 Author Posted September 13, 2011 As a Catholic I could never have let my children sell things that are forbidden by my faith. Not for the wide world. This is a teaching and learning moment that is a million times more important for the integrity of your child's belief system than whether he gets to go on a field trip. How confusing to a 6th Grader. We can't drink coffee but we can sell it? Lovingly explain and he'll understand. I say this to help you teach your child to learn decision making and to be more confident at everything he ever puts his hand to.Thanks! I don't really see it as being any different than a Jehovah's Witness child not taking part in selling Christmas trees for a fundraiser.
Nathair/|\ Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 Like pretty much everyone else who has commented, I wouldn't sell it or allow my children to do so. However, at Presiding Bishop Charles W. Nibley's proposal, the Church did own a bar in the Hotel Utah at one time. I guess this is the kind of thing that, as my bishop when I was a teenager used to say when discussing cold caffeine, "if you feel guilty about it, don't."
Calm Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 Thanks! I don't really see it as being any different than a Jehovah's Witness child not taking part in selling Christmas trees for a fundraiser.Very good analogy.
Calm Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 However, at Presiding Bishop Charles W. Nibley's proposal, the Church did own a bar in the Hotel Utah at one time. I think there is a difference between promoting something and having something available because someone else asks for it without prompting...even expects it. If the Church owned the bar as a profit making attempt as opposed to trying to help people feel at home, I think it's a good thing they discontinued it even though I don't believe drinking alcohol is sinful for those who have covenanted not too and can even be a good thing if treated appropriately and not abused.
Zakuska Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 (edited) I think there is a difference between promoting something and having something available because someone else asks for it without prompting...even expects it. If the Church owned the bar as a profit making attempt as opposed to trying to help people feel at home, I think it's a good thing they discontinued it even though I don't believe drinking alcohol is sinful for those who have covenanted not too and can even be a good thing if treated appropriately and not abused.I agree with this. Take for example LDS gas Station owners, should they go against the sindicates orders and not sell cigarettes or beer? How about a restauraunt? No caffinated products period?Now kids in a school selling coffee to their neighbors? Maybe the neighborhood is full of coffee drinkers so the School thought it a good idea to change things up some and see if it would be successful. Its definatley outside the fund raising box to use an expression. Im not sure if Morningstar is in Utah or not and I wouldn't imagine that such a fundraiser would be very successful in Utah. How about LDS who live in Nevada? Should they refuse to work in the Casino business? Edited September 13, 2011 by Zakuska
Tchild2 Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 (edited) My oldest son is in 6th grade and has to do quite a few fundraisers this year to earn $100 towards field trips. We just had a car wash on Saturday where he and I both worked through two shifts.Yesterday he came home and said their next fundraiser is selling coffee door to door. So he asked me if I would go door to door with him. I said, "If we were Jewish, I don't think we would sell bacon to people. I think it would be a little weird for us to sell coffee."Do you think it's weird for a Mormon to sell coffee? As a Mormon, would you let your child sell it? I told my son it wasn't that we saw it as evil, but it's not something we consider healthy. What happened to selling chocolate bars, cookie dough, etc.? This seems like a strange fundraiser for children. He's bent out of shape because he had to sit through a meeting about selling it. They're going to sell coupon books too, so hopefully that will bring in enough.If your son is selling it for the mutual benefit of others, for a charity or a worthy organization, then yes. Why not? Your son is part of a bigger world with divergent and diverse values and ideals (remember, drinking coffee is neither moral or immoral). Hopefully, Mormons can practice their beliefs for reasons internalized and personal while allowing others to live according to their own ideals without judging or self-rightous hang-ups. The WoW is just that: wisdom about healthy living. Mormons cannot expect outsiders to view the drinking of coffee as a moral decision as that is only applicable to Mormon beliefs and their specific religious views. People do not convert to Mormonism because the members do not sip coffee, drink alcohol or smoke tobacco, but because they are tolerant and loving members of the world community, and more importantly, that they take their religion seriously without imposing it upon others.That is the sign of spiritual maturity IMO. Edited September 14, 2011 by Tchild2
Calm Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 (edited) that they take their religion seriously without imposing it upon others.That is the sign of spiritual maturity IMO.Not selling coffee because you have covenanted not to drink it is not about imposing one's religion on others as there is nothing in your actions that prevents them from doing so or even suggests to them they shouldn't drink coffee, it is instead about creating an environment within which you live and that environment not including the avid promotion of coffee. Recognizing that one can live in the world and still not be of it and that one doesn't have to live by standards created by other people, but can choose to live by one's own is also a sign of spiritual maturity.There are other ways to support the charity or fundraising, including adding one's time and resources that would have gone into this activity to a more appropriate one or even directly contributing the money yourself that you would have raised. Either of these fulfills the needs of others as much as doing the actual fundraising event of coffee selling, does not limit others' choices in any way (they can still get all the coffee they want from others), and allows you to create an environment that you feel is better suited to your own choices. Edited September 14, 2011 by calmoriah
Nathair/|\ Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Not selling coffee because you have covenanted not to drink it is not about imposing one's religion on others as there is nothing in your actions that prevents them from doing so or even suggests to them they shouldn't drink coffee, it is instead about creating an environment within which you live and that environment not including the avid promotion of coffee. Recognizing that one can live in the world and still not be of it and that one doesn't have to live by standards created by other people, but can choose to live by one's own is also a sign of spiritual maturity.There are other ways to support the charity or fundraising, including adding one's time and resources that would have gone into this activity to a more appropriate one or even directly contributing the money yourself that you would have raised. Either of these fulfills the needs of others as much as doing the actual fundraising event of coffee selling, does not limit others' choices in any way (they can still get all the coffee they want from others), and allows you to create an environment that you feel is better suited to your own choices.And I'm out of rep points.
Calm Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 And I'm out of rep points.Blast it, I'm aiming for over 400 by the end of the year.
MorningStar Posted September 14, 2011 Author Posted September 14, 2011 If your son is selling it for the mutual benefit of others, for a charity or a worthy organization, then yes. Why not? Your son is part of a bigger world with divergent and diverse values and ideals (remember, drinking coffee is neither moral or immoral). Hopefully, Mormons can practice their beliefs for reasons internalized and personal while allowing others to live according to their own ideals without judging or self-rightous hang-ups. The WoW is just that: wisdom about healthy living. Mormons cannot expect outsiders to view the drinking of coffee as a moral decision as that is only applicable to Mormon beliefs and their specific religious views. People do not convert to Mormonism because the members do not sip coffee, drink alcohol or smoke tobacco, but because they are tolerant and loving members of the world community, and more importantly, that they take their religion seriously without imposing it upon others.That is the sign of spiritual maturity IMO.If they were selling multiple things for a catalog and it contained coffee, that wouldn't bother me so much. The idea of my son knocking on doors and saying, "Hi, I'm selling coffee." feels a little strange. I asked him, "Are they selling anything else?" He said, "Tea."
Calm Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 If they were selling multiple things for a catalog and it contained coffee, that wouldn't bother me so much. The idea of my son knocking on doors and saying, "Hi, I'm selling coffee." feels a little strange. I asked him, "Are they selling anything else?" He said, "Tea." Oh, well that's completely different then. Please ignore everything I've said.
Yirgacheffe Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Most of the fund raising situations my kids have been in have had a buy out price. You could opt out of fund raising by paying what ever the minimum was, so if every child was given a goal of x number of boxes of what ever junk was being sold, you could just pay how ever much would be made by selling the x number of boxes of junk. We always took that option when we didn't feel like selling the stuff, for what ever reason.
CV75 Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 My oldest son is in 6th grade and has to do quite a few fundraisers this year to earn $100 towards field trips. We just had a car wash on Saturday where he and I both worked through two shifts.Yesterday he came home and said their next fundraiser is selling coffee door to door. So he asked me if I would go door to door with him. I said, "If we were Jewish, I don't think we would sell bacon to people. I think it would be a little weird for us to sell coffee."Do you think it's weird for a Mormon to sell coffee? As a Mormon, would you let your child sell it? I told my son it wasn't that we saw it as evil, but it's not something we consider healthy. What happened to selling chocolate bars, cookie dough, etc.? This seems like a strange fundraiser for children. He's bent out of shape because he had to sit through a meeting about selling it. They're going to sell coupon books too, so hopefully that will bring in enough.I would not sell it. The same with selling raffle tickets. When I am confronted with the obligation to do something like this because of the organization I belong to, I make it clear that I do not believe in such-and-such, but that I will make a contribution in lieu of a purchase or sale, and that way they can keep 100% of what I contribute instead of using a portion of it to procure the coffee, pay out the raffle prize, etc.
blueadept Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Now kids in a school selling coffee to their neighbors? Maybe the neighborhood is full of coffee drinkers so the School thought it a good idea to change things up some and see if it would be successful. Its definatley outside the fund raising box to use an expression. Im not sure if Morningstar is in Utah or not and I wouldn't imagine that such a fundraiser would be very successful in Utah. Since Morningstar lives in the state of Washington which is home for Starbucks and Seattle's Best Coffee, I'm not surprised there is a fundraiser that involves coffee... Most non-LDS would not expect Mormons to embrace that particular fundraiser but I believe it's a good learning opportunity for MS for her son. How about LDS who live in Nevada? Should they refuse to work in the Casino business?From my experience with my family from Vegas, most LDS tend to avoid the Casino business but you still feel the LDS presence in Vegas regardless.
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