How Would Irrefutable Evidence Of Extraterrestrials Affect You.

[cinepro]

Doesn't LDS scripture tend to support the existence of extra-terrestrial biological entities?

If there's any truth to UFO reports, and we were to actually make contact, it would be interesting to learn what their religious traditions are (and why they're interested in earth.)

See this article.

[ERayR]

I have often thought the same thing. This thread was started primarily to get the non-LDS Christian respone to the questions posed but is seems none of them want to play. The question was inspired by a blurb that said something to the effect that the US government would release proof of alien contact in the near future. Although I am skeptical, because of what God told Moses, it wouldn't cause me any problems with my belief system and I am confident that the majority of LDS Christians feel the same. However, because of the belief in a unique creation that I have found among the non-LDS Christions, that I know, I was curious about their reaction, but alas, as I have said, none of them seem to want to play.

Still waiting for a non-LDS perspective.

[Darth_Bill]

For the LDS perspective, I would think that if the aliens have no concept of a savior, religion or something we see in our own religious life, it would be quite destructive. We have our world/universe view and our own expectations of it.

For non-religious, it might not mess them up too bad.

I reserve the right to be mind-numbingly wrong.

[supersnail]

I'm not an LDS member, considered an investigator.

I have read the Book of Mormon. Am now studying D&C and the Pearl of Great Price.

I'm coming from something of a science background, so the parts of D&C 76, 88 and the Book of Moses that could be understood as referring to human-like life on other planets drew my interest. The number of galaxies in the universe may be in the hundreds of billions. That's not something Joseph Smith could have known by scientific means in 1830, but there is no conflict between what was revealed to him, and hypothetical future proof of life outside earth.

I guess some would say that knowing what exactly "worlds without number" means isn't all that important, but it seems to be a theme in the scriptures. Is there an underlying point about how we as humans develop spiritually and are saved or exalted (or not)? I feel this is about a lot more than just the question is there life on other planets.

Was inspired and put together this graphic: http://i.imgur.com/OVzmY.jpg

NASA released the image, of galaxy NGC 4921 more than 300 million light-years away with other galaxies in the background, in 2009.

[JAHS]

Still waiting for a non-LDS perspective.

Here's a scientist's perspective: "If it is just us. Seems like an awful waste of space."

[altersteve]

Was inspired and put together this graphic: http://i.imgur.com/OVzmY.jpg

That's awesome.

[diglot]

I am not much of a what if fan but this idea intrigues me. If the US government were to publically reveal either live aliens or the bodies of aliens.

How would it affect:

1) Your practice of your religion?

2) Your belief in and concept of God?

Is there extraterrestrial life? I think (hope?) there is an abundance of life elsewhere in the universe. Seems kind of sad if this unimaginably large universe only contains life on this little planet.

If we were to find out the existence of aliens through an official government disclosure, I don't really think it would change my beliefs all that much. I mean, I already practically accept the idea that the universe is teeming with life, so the only thing that would really alter my beliefs would depend upon what the aliens believe concerning God. I mean, if their planet is full of different religious systems and beliefs like our planet is, then it would quite possibly make me given up specific religious belief entirely (though still retaining belief in the existence of a God).

In my days as a conservative evangelical, I was certain that UFO's and alien encounters were a Satanic deception. I feel like this is a common stream of thought in evangelicalism, so I would imagine that if the government disclosed the existence of aliens, there would be many Christians asserting that the aliens were demonic spirits in disguise.

The LDS Church seems like the Christian denomination that would be able to cope the easiest with the existence of aliens.

Edited November 8, 2011 by diglot

[mfbukowski]

Is there an underlying point about how we as humans develop spiritually and are saved or exalted (or not)? I feel this is about a lot more than just the question is there life on other planets. Was inspired and put together this graphic: http://i.imgur.com/OVzmY.jpg NASA released the image, of galaxy NGC 4921 more than 300 million light-years away with other galaxies in the background, in 2009.

Really great graphic- and welcome to the board!

Should you decide to join the church and in a year or so after your confirmation it's right for you to go to the temple, there are one or two lines in the endowment ceremony which I am sure will pique your interest.

I don't think they will answer your question, but they certainly imply that the plan of salvation is in progress on all those other worlds, as it is here, but the Church's teaching is that Christ's atonement here on this earth was an infinite one, for all worlds.

It's interesting to speculate on how those other worlds might have been informed about the gospel- I am sure it would be seen as a belief that "long ago on a galaxy far away".... the atonement happened.

Of course at this point we only have a few hints about any of this, and not much else to go on. On the other hand, it is open to you to seek the spirit and come up with what makes sense to you individually- and you can receive revelation your own personal revelation if it's God's will that you do so.

You of course could not teach that revelation, but you can learn from the spirit yourself what God wants you to know about it, for your own information.

Does that answer your question, or are you asking about where we came from as spirits? The missionaries will teach you that- but of course we can answer that here too. Maybe make your questions more specific and we will be glad to help.

[mfbukowski]

The LDS Church seems like the Christian denomination that would be able to cope the easiest with the existence of aliens.

There is a strong implication in the endowment that others know the plan of salvation on other worlds. So we would not only "be able to cope"- it would become another "bulls eye" for our beliefs.

[diglot]

There is a strong implication in the endowment that others know the plan of salvation on other worlds. So we would not only "be able to cope"- it would become another "bulls eye" for our beliefs.

It would be a bulls eye for the LDS Church if these alien civilizations actually possessed a belief of an atonement.

This brings up an issue I never really was certain of: is it a common LDS belief that these other planets have their own Jesuses, i.e. their own historical figure who made atonement for the inhabitants of their planet. The missionaries I talked to about this said that they believe Jesus is unique in all of the universe and that his atonement is the only one that will be provided for all the inhabitants of the cosmos.

Thoughts?

Edited November 8, 2011 by diglot

[mfbukowski]

It would be a bulls eye for the LDS Church if these alien civilizations actually possessed a belief of an atonement.

This brings up an issue I never really was certain of: is it a common LDS belief that these other planets have their own Jesuses, i.e. their own historical figure who made atonement for the inhabitants of their planet. The missionaries I talked to about this said that they believe Jesus is unique in all of the universe and that his atonement is the only one that will be provided for all the inhabitants of the cosmos.

Thoughts?

Our belief is that Jesus' atonement was an infinite one for all worlds.

[mfbukowski]

deleted

Edited November 8, 2011 by mfbukowski

[JeremyOrbe-Smith]

If there were more than one Atonement, it wouldn't be At-one-ment, it'd be At-two-ment. Or, y'know, however many more. The point is that all Uncreated Intelligences should learn to love each other, become One-in-purpose by working together to bring to pass immortality and eternal life for each other in bodies which were organized to engender sympathy for one another that they might all have joy.

[mfbukowski]

I am having formatting problems again- it is quite frustrating.

But section 76 contains evidence that the atonement is infinite for all worlds, verse 24 and 42 and 43

Also this:

6. The infinite Atonement affects worlds without number and will save all of God’s children except sons of perdition (see Alma 34:9–10, 12 ; D&C 76:22–24, 40–43 ).

http://institute.lds.org/manuals/doctrines-of-the-gospel-student-manual/doc-gosp-01-10-9.asp

Edited November 8, 2011 by mfbukowski

[Rivers]

Our belief is that Jesus' atonement was an infinite one for all worlds.

Why did our world get to have Jesus come?

[altersteve]

Why did our world get to have Jesus come?

Some General Authorities have speculated that Jesus came here because it was the only place where the Crucifixion could have happened, because of the wickedness of some of the people on this world. But we haven't been given an "official" answer.

[LeSellers]

Why did our world get to have Jesus come?

We know that the Jews of the early I were the only people wicked enough to kill their own God. It is not illogical to assume that ours was the only world on which there would be a people wicked enough to do so, too.

We may be the "dregs" of humanity, the only people who needed the Atonement performed on our world so we'd have the "evidence" of the resurrection right "here" so we could believe.

Lehi

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I am not much of a what if fan but this idea intrigues me. If the US government were to publically reveal either live aliens or the bodies of aliens.

How would it affect:

1) Your practice of your religion?

2) Your belief in and concept of God?

I think we already do...has not had a negative effect on me yet.

[thesometimesaint]

diglot:

I have no problem with Aliens from other planets not YET receiving the Gospel. Eternity is a long time.

[JAHS]

Some General Authorities have speculated that Jesus came here because it was the only place where the Crucifixion could have happened, because of the wickedness of some of the people on this world. But we haven't been given an "official" answer.

Not just general authorities. Moses 7:36 says:

"Wherefore, I can stretch forth mine hands and hold all the creations which I have made; and mine eye can pierce them also, and among all the workmanship of mine hands there has not been so great wickedness as among thy brethren. (Moses 7:36).

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Not just general authorities. Moses 7:36 says:

"Wherefore, I can stretch forth mine hands and hold all the creations which I have made; and mine eye can pierce them also, and among all the workmanship of mine hands there has not been so great wickedness as among thy brethren. (Moses 7:36).

Good scripture.

[LeSellers]

Not just general authorities. Moses 7:36 says:

"Wherefore, I can stretch forth mine hands and hold all the creations which I have made; and mine eye can pierce them also, and among all the workmanship of mine hands there has not been so great wickedness as among thy brethren. (Moses 7:36).

That's not the only place.

11 Thus I, Abraham, talked with the Lord, face to face, as one man talketh with another; and he told me of the works which his hands had made; 12 And he said unto me: My son, my son (and his hand was stretched out), behold I will show you all these. And he put his hand upon mine eyes, and I saw those things which his hands had made, which were many; and they multiplied before mine eyes, and I could not see the end thereof.

Lehi

[supersnail]

Does that answer your question, or are you asking about where we came from as spirits? The missionaries will teach you that- but of course we can answer that here too. Maybe make your questions more specific and we will be glad to help.

Thank you for the welcome. I have no specific questions about this right now. I have lot of studying and thinking to do.

I have been pondering the words about different earthly or material worlds and kingdoms, but I am not really stuck on them.

My question was more about the relationship between those words to points of LDS doctrine that aren't a matter of mere speculation or personal revelation. Or whether most Mormons see such a relationship (for example, in the topic of eternal progression). One of my own initial reactions to those words was to think that they help show the divine nature of the scriptures containing them. The existence of planets outside the solar system couldn't have been known in the early 1830s without the Holy Spirit. People have thought about extrasolar planets for a long time, but the first one was detected in the 1990s. But maybe those words about worlds and kingdoms have a particular theological significance and don't just serve to show consistency or inconsistency of reports of extraterrestrials and other hypothetical future findings with a scripture or faith.

Some people (Christians and also those not calling themselves Christian) do try to prove that a certain scripture is truth because it seems to agree with scientific ideas that weren't known in the past or view faiths in terms of being in conflict with new discoveries. However, the topic of life outside earth seems to have more significance than that for LDS Christians.

[mfbukowski]

Some people (Christians and also those not calling themselves Christian) do try to prove that a certain scripture is truth because it seems to agree with scientific ideas that weren't known in the past or view faiths in terms of being in conflict with new discoveries. However, the topic of life outside earth seems to have more significance than that for LDS Christians.

That of course is a two-edged sword- remember Genesis still says that the earth was created in 6 days, and many LDS do not believe in evolution, though it is taught at all the church universities of course, as are all the newest scientific developments. My son is studying physics right now at a church university.

But in my opinion, and that of many others here, if not all, there is no conflict between the scriptures and science- they are largely talking about separate subjects. Science seeks to create theories to explain the observations we can all verify, which are "objective", but religion seeks to give meaning to our lives and helps us to understand more the "whys" of life than the "hows", and helps us with our subjective understanding of what should be important in our lives. That is something that science cannot do.

Edited November 9, 2011 by mfbukowski

[Mariner]

If the aliens had human form, I would have to revisit my rejection of the theory of intelligent design.

Why is that?

If the aliens happened to evolve on a planet with an environment that was similar to that of Earth, then they should have a body form similar to ours. If they evolved in a different environment, such as a planet with a surface mainly or completely covered with water, then they might have a body architecture quite different from ours (although it is unlikely that a purely aquatic lifeform would ever develop the technology required for interstellar travel). Higher gravity would make for shorter bodies with larger diameter bones and generally stronger muscles. Lower gravity than Earth might lead to taller thinner body forms like those of the fictional Navi in Avatar.

From a practical point of view, it is highly likely that any extraterrestrial life that would ever reach Earth from outside the solar system would be carbon based (or that they would be robotic). It is unlikely that silicon based life forms would develop naturally (Star Trek notwithstanding) and if it did it is unlikely that they would be able to develop intelligence (neurological function) anywhere near the level possible carbon based lifeforms. Any silicon based "lifeforms" to reach Earth form interstellar space would probably have been developed by an "intelligent designer" that looked a lot like us.

Since the relative proportion of the elements observed in this solar system should be fairly typical of those found in other planetary systems around similar stars, and since carbon is one of the favored stable elements that is formed in the life cycle of stars, there should be plenty of carbon available on other planets that would also have liquid water sufficient to support the evolution of life as we know it.

Edited November 10, 2011 by Mariner