Bishops Warned Of Mass Exodus?

[mfbukowski]

I can verify HT's statement. I'm currently serving as the bishop of my ward and have never received such communication. I would agree that it's an exaggeration or misunderstanding.

Yep

No truth to it whatsoever.

[mfbukowski]

My friend.

So he gets a hug and I don't???

What's up with that?

[mfbukowski]

I forgot to mention that I did pose the question about the statement's origin on the former bishop's blog and he responded. Here is the exchange:

Our ward and stake in So Cal is experiencing growth like I have not seen in the 23 years or so I have been in the Ward.

At the same time I have seen NO ONE ask to have their names removed in the last 3 years, and only 2 in the last 5 years, and those had been long time inactives- a 70 year old Deacon for example, and one who had been angry at God for years over the death of his daughter. Nothing whatsoever about the internet or doctrine- so that is the report from one Ward.

No evidence of news of a "mass exodus" at all, but in fact nearly explosive growth.

[mercyngrace]

Our ward and stake in So Cal is experiencing growth like I have not seen in the 23 years or so I have been in the Ward.

At the same time I have seen NO ONE ask to have their names removed in the last 3 years, and only 2 in the last 5 years, and those had been long time inactives- a 70 year old Deacon for example, and one who had been angry at God for years over the death of his daughter. Nothing whatsoever about the internet or doctrine- so that is the report from one Ward.

No evidence of news of a "mass exodus" at all, but in fact nearly explosive growth.

Good to hear, mfb. For that, you get a hug.

[mfbukowski]

I can't imagine anything being more important (on a Mormon Apologetic and Discussion board) then discussing a LDS Bishop's "loss of faith" and or his enormously sad and heart wrenchimg "resignation letter". (As a never-Mo, it brought tears to my eyes)

Why?

Regards,

Pahoran

Yeah, I don't get this one either. It happens. Maybe you don't understand that in my one congregation of about 150 active members, there are now 5 former bishops and who knows how many future ones.

We rotate in taking on the calling every 5 or so years. It's one person's calling now, it will be another person's later. If one becomes inactive or disaffected, it is a sad thing- but not a big deal. It is like hearing your distant uncle passed away or something. Sad, but it happens.

[mfbukowski]

Good to hear, mfb. For that, you get a hug.

YAY!

[Hamba Tuhan]

The rest just stay away and there are too few of us to keep home teaching them.

When I was an elders quorum president in America, Elder Marlin K Jensen of the Seventy was our area president. In a training meeting with him, his recommendation was that we prayerfully choose individuals to focus on and then strengthen them until they were ready to help join in the work of strengthening others. In many ways, that's what's happened with the brother, mentioned above, whom I've been visiting for the past 6+ years. Now called as a ward missionary, he was telling me on Sunday that he's asked for a list of every inactive member in the ward so that he can prayerfully identify those he'll now start to work with. He's gone from being a liability to an asset, and, as a result of his labors, others inevitably will too.

[Hamba Tuhan]

Our ward and stake in So Cal is experiencing growth like I have not seen in the 23 years or so I have been in the Ward.

I've only been in my stake for under eight years, but we're having a year like that, too. Our neighbouring ward has had a baptismal service nearly every week this year. The ward south of that has been almost that busy. A convert in that ward (you'd like him, MFB, since he has degrees in philosophy!) succeeded last year in helping his 17-year-old nephew join the Church, and, through the nephew's labours and example, his sister, brother, and parents have all been baptised this year. In our ward, by this weekend we'll have already had a 50% increase in converts over what we experienced during all of 2010. I'd like to say we're doing something different/better, but, to be honest, I think the people are mostly just coming to us.

[Kenngo1969]

My mother-in-law is like that. She has no interest in attending church (except family obligations like baby blessings) or keeping any of the commandments but she is proud of calling herself Mormon.

Any of the commandments? She hasn't killed anyone, has she? (My apologies in advance if she's doing a lengthy stretch in the local state penitentiary for murder or manslaughter ... )

[Monster]

I'll hazard he's just making it all up based on rumor and innuendo. He's one of the new breed of antiMormons who are verbally charismatic and able to draw a lot of sympathy for that which does not exist or never happened.

Matthew 7:15

That could be said of many Mormon leaders themselves.

[USU78]

Yes, it's an apostate article of unfaith.

We've heard it all before. In '78 it was all over the place: the "racist" Mormons in their compounds with their hoarded food and weaponry would all leave the Church.

Never happened.

Won't happen now.

[Nathair/|\]

Any of the commandments? She hasn't killed anyone, has she? (My apologies in advance if she's doing a lengthy stretch in the local state penitentiary for murder or manslaughter ... )

I blame her and my sister-in-law for my son's death. He was a preemie and his lungs weren't fully developed. They pressured my wife into leaving me and moving in with them. My MIL smoked heavily, both tobacco and marijuana, around him, and my sister-in-law, in whose house my wife and son were staying, refused to clean and so her house got very moldy. Beyond that, if they haven't killed anyone, it was from lack of motivation or opportunity rather than conscience. My MIL also once demanded that I run across four lanes of heavy traffic. I, naturally, refused. I'm not about to kill myself just for her enjoyment.

[Nathair/|\]

That could be said of many Mormon leaders themselves.

CFR!

[MosesStone1980]

I was going to start a thread, but this seems to be a fair place for my anecdote.

I have noticed a number of High School friends and acquaintances who were seemingly, at the time, very active and believing members of the church, but have now 180'd their beliefs, some of whom seem to find ample opportunities to belittle the remaining "believers."

One recent friend, however, has got me "up in the night" literally and figuratively.

He posted on facebook a link to this website: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com.

Familiar to anyone?

[Calm]

I blame her and my sister-in-law for my son's death. He was a preemie and his lungs weren't fully developed. They pressured my wife into leaving me and moving in with them. My MIL smoked heavily, both tobacco and marijuana, around him, and my sister-in-law, in whose house my wife and son were staying, refused to clean and so her house got very moldy.

I am so sorry Nathair. The horrors people put their loved ones through while claiming they are doing it only because they want the best for the other or out of love and a desire to protect....and yet they aren't willing to demonstrate real commitment in changing their own lives or making the significant sacrifices to do their part to make it better. That kind of selfish demanding love without commitment of one's whole self is poisonous on so many levels and is much more likely about control than protection in my view.

[Calm]

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com.

Familiar to anyone?

Link won't work as is, you need to remove the last period after .com If you can't bring yourself to not have a period at the end of a sentence, you'll need to add a space which looks a little weird, so sometimes I add several as if I'm trailing off ........... as opposed to as if I'm trailing off . And as you can see, it appears to add some visual balance....if that matters to you.

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com

Most of the criticisms are based on an uneducated, uninformed view that has the additional filter of presentism, there does not appear to be any effort to read with actual understand of the concepts the ancients were trying to convey. Have not been very impressed by it, but there might be some decent stuff that I haven't see yet as I had not given it a thorough treatment since I judged it not worth my time by what I had seen for the several hours I studied it.

[mercyngrace]

One recent friend, however, has got me "up in the night" literally and figuratively.

He posted on facebook a link to this website: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com

Familiar to anyone?

That website is funny.

The scripture across the top of the page was shocking so I looked it up. Ripped totally from its context, it appeared God was commanding men to do something unseemly. In context, God was warning men that if they did not follow Him, they would become sinners who commited various gross sins. (And thou shalt do this...and thou shalt do this... using shalt in the future tense rather than the imperative.)

Someone should actually check up on the verses they've highlighted with their cheap word search program.

Thanks for the laugh, Moses!

[mercyngrace]

I blame her and my sister-in-law for my son's death. He was a preemie and his lungs weren't fully developed. They pressured my wife into leaving me and moving in with them. My MIL smoked heavily, both tobacco and marijuana, around him, and my sister-in-law, in whose house my wife and son were staying, refused to clean and so her house got very moldy. Beyond that, if they haven't killed anyone, it was from lack of motivation or opportunity rather than conscience. My MIL also once demanded that I run across four lanes of heavy traffic. I, naturally, refused. I'm not about to kill myself just for her enjoyment.

I'm so sorry Nathair.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Huh?

Peace,

Ceeboo

What I am saying Ceeboo, one Bishop in our Church sending a letter to SLC, would not be the along the same magnitude of Martin Luther nailing a declaration to the Pope’s door. So I do not see you point that “if anything should be on MD&D this should” (too paraphrase).

[Messenger]

All this is nothing new to me. People have always written articles on paper or websites explaining why the church is wrong. I have many relatives that tout these views when I go to family reunions. In all of that mass of articles it usually boils down to an event of a church bishop or other leader or fellow member that caused the author of these articles to be offended in some way. So, instead of talking about the actual event, reporting it or running it up the tree to a stake president, they turn in their letter and have their name removed. So, instead of telling it like it really is, for example, "I have an idiot for a bishop", they instead say, "The Mormon Church Is Wrong". Thus they have been deceived by Satan into thinking the Telestial church of Christ is the culprit as to whatever has offended them. When they leave, they indeed know and have exacting proof that their leaving was a mistake. How do they know? They no longer feel the Holy Ghost in their lives. I've talked to enough Stake Presidents who tell of how these people felt and what these people say after they leave the church. They say its dramatic and they had no idea when the disconnect happened how it would feel. When people leave the church, they no longer have the gift of the Holy Ghost as a constant companion. If they were raised in the church, they probably had gotten used to how it felt. But when they leave, it’s like turning off a light switch. At that point they can either find their way back, which takes a year or two of hard work, or they put up these articles in print or on the web about how wrong the church is and try to justify their actions. Thus Satan has them continuing an endless cycle despair to all that listen.

People have a choice; they can either make the PEOPLE in the church better by participating discussing, and YES, talking about events that happened to them so that they may be improved or spend an endless life outside the church not helping in any way improve it. In the end, we as members must realize that this Church today is in TELESTIAL form. It’s made up of people like you and me who are all trying to get to a higher level. Also realize that WE all make mistakes, unless we forgive those that are idiots, we idiot selves will also never be forgiven.

[MosesStone1980]

That website is funny.

The scripture across the top of the page was shocking so I looked it up. Ripped totally from its context, it appeared God was commanding men to do something unseemly. In context, God was warning men that if they did not follow Him, they would become sinners who commited various gross sins. (And thou shalt do this...and thou shalt do this... using shalt in the future tense rather than the imperative.)

Someone should actually check up on the verses they've highlighted with their cheap word search program.

Thanks for the laugh, Moses!

No problem. It seems each new website I come across the author feels they have the new and improved end-all, be-all criticism of the church, it's history, the BofM, etc. Yet, their claims are just a different take on the same 'ole, same 'ole.

[zelder]

From James E Faust

....... the disappointments and setbacks to the work of God will be temporary, for the work will go forward.

http://lds.org/liahona/2007/01/the-forces-that-will-save-us?lang=eng&query=setbacks

When I read this I took it to mean that the leadership of the church was expecting setbacks, maybe apostasy IDK but I thought it was interesting.