Can the church cause psychological damage?

[auteur55]

She calls herself "a mormon survivor." Claims she had to undergo years of therapy to get back to living a normal life after being raised in the church and believes the church had harmed her social life and ability to function as a normal adult.

Do active members ever stop to ask themselves if this is a possibility? Does the rigid, somewhat black and white structure of the church combined with things like Temple ceremonies, garments, callings create an unhealthy guilt complex or environment for certain people?

Does my friend have an argument? And if she does what does that say for what's supposed to be a restored gospel that brings peace and joy into the hearts of it's recepients??

[BookofMormonLuvr]

What, exactly, is your definition of an "unhealthy guilt complex"?

Although I am no longer LDS, I was raised LDS, and wouldn't trade the experience for the world.

[Nathair/|\]

She calls herself "a mormon survivor." Claims she had to undergo years of therapy to get back to living a normal life after being raised in the church and believes the church had harmed her social life and ability to function as a normal adult.

Do active members ever stop to ask themselves if this is a possibility? Does the rigid, somewhat black and white structure of the church combined with things like Temple ceremonies, garments, callings create an unhealthy guilt complex or environment for certain people?

Does my friend have an argument? And if she does what does that say for what's supposed to be a restored gospel that brings peace and joy into the hearts of it's recepients??

I don't think that the Church as such is harmful, quite the opposite in fact, However, I think some cultural traits we have inherited from our New England Puritan forbearers may be unhealthy, may even keep us from appreciating what we really have. I know Kerry Shirts has gone a long way with his work on the Kabballah to blaze a trail towards overcoming that. I've tried, with my explorations in Druidry, to help in my own small way.

I also think many Saints, especially in areas that are predominantly LDS can be prone to the same kind of arrogance that characterized the Jews in the meridian of time. I remember President Hinckley calling people to repentance in General Conference for things like not letting their kids play with non-member kids.

But these things, while they exist among the Saints, are antithetical to the gospel and the teachings of the Church herself.

Yours under the ford building oaks,

Nathair /|\

[Deborah]

The answer is NO! I do think that personal and family problems can cause such but it's easier to blame it on the church than take personal responsibility or blame one's parents.

[Calm]

She calls herself "a mormon survivor." Claims she had to undergo years of therapy to get back to living a normal life after being raised in the church and believes the church had harmed her social life and ability to function as a normal adult.

Do active members ever stop to ask themselves if this is a possibility? Does the rigid, somewhat black and white structure of the church combined with things like Temple ceremonies, garments, callings create an unhealthy guilt complex or environment for certain people?

Does my friend have an argument? And if she does what does that say for what's supposed to be a restored gospel that brings peace and joy into the hearts of it's recepients??

"Black and white" and "rigid" are generally perceptions that are imposed on something, not something inherent...it often says something more about the person who sees it that way than the object/institution/individual being labeled as "black and white" or "rigid" themselves. I know many Saints that don't see the Church as black and white at all or rigid...I am one of them. There are also many, many Saints and exSaints that live a normal life without therapy, those that don't are in the minority. Since they are in the minority, it is wise to look at what makes the individual different from others first rather than trying to point out aspects of the Church that lead to harm. Once the differences have been identified (in most cases if people do describe their issues, it appears to be a result of family dynamics that may or may not have interacted with certain aspects of the Church), then one can see if interaction with Church structures and doctrine could have had an influence and whether or not this influence is the source of the harm or just being used to express what is already a problem. For example, someone who is mentally disturbed may choose the Bible and a story in it in which to frame their psychosis, the question needs to be asked 'if the Bible wasn't there, would the psychosis still be, just expressed differently?' If yes, you can hardly blame the Bible for any harm that person commits.

As for bringing peace and joy into the hearts of its recipients, the same thing applies. One needs to determine if it is something inherent in the Church that does this or something inherent in the members who experience such things since not all members feel this way.

[Calm]

The answer is NO! I do think that personal and family problems can cause such but it's easier to blame it on the church than take personal responsibility or blame one's parents.

It is definitely emotionally safer to blame the Church rather than blame one's parents. I know a few individuals who blame the Church for what they see is a horrible life (in most cases I would disagree with them that their life is somehow inherently horrible, but they sincerely feel that way about their life) when I know that there was parental abuse contrary to the teachings of the Church and yet they make excuses for their parents that they had a hard life or didn't know better, etc while not allowing the Church in general the same latitude, even holding it responsible for things occurring that are directly against its teachings, that would never have happened if the Church had as much influence in their lives as they claim for it.

[Questing Beast]

She calls herself "a mormon survivor." Claims she had to undergo years of therapy to get back to living a normal life after being raised in the church and believes the church had harmed her social life and ability to function as a normal adult.

Do active members ever stop to ask themselves if this is a possibility? Does the rigid, somewhat black and white structure of the church combined with things like Temple ceremonies, garments, callings create an unhealthy guilt complex or environment for certain people?

Does my friend have an argument? And if she does what does that say for what's supposed to be a restored gospel that brings peace and joy into the hearts of it's recepients??

Anytime we see a dogmatic organization like the LDS Church, which only allows one set of official doctrines, ordinances, history and lifestyle, we are going to see a large number of disaffected members and former members. Like any religion, the LDS persuasion only appeals to a minority segment of its membership. The extremely disaffected will assert emotional, psychological and even material damages from their exposure to the religion. Most disaffected persons will tough it out like grownups.

The "gospel" warns that it isn't going to be taken up by everyone. Quite the opposite: the "good news" is rejected by the vast majority of "the world". This, we are told, as how it has always been. The world(ly) do not like the gospel, either formerly or in its "restored" incarnation. So this built in "fail safe" answers any and sundry accusations that it is not "true". Percentage of adherents, numbers converting to it, are immaterial to its truth claims....

[bluebell]

It is definitely emotionally safer to blame the Church rather than blame one's parents. I know a few individuals who blame the Church for what they see is a horrible life (in most cases I would disagree with them that their life is somehow inherently horrible, but they sincerely feel that way about their life) when I know that there was parental abuse contrary to the teachings of the Church and yet they make excuses for their parents that they had a hard life or didn't know better, etc while not allowing the Church in general the same latitude, even holding it responsible for things occurring that are directly against its teachings, that would never have happened if the Church had as much influence in their lives as they claim for it.

THis is what i have seen as well.

Usually it seems that it's the persons parents using their own interpretation of the church's teachings that causes the trouble, but the people i know blame the church rather than their parents.

I especially love the part of your post that i bolded.

[Duncan]

Tough to say, and I can't speak for anyone else but personally I have had some awesome experiences in the Church and some just horrible, horrible experiences in the Church and I have gone to counselling because of stuff-church related but NOW I feel more in control then I was before and I have a filter and I am more discerning then I was. The other thing too is regardless of the source Christ can heal and the scriptures tell us to listen to the spirit what is true and good and what is not true, don't do that for yourself and is bad.

[juliann]

She calls herself "a mormon survivor." Claims she had to undergo years of therapy to get back to living a normal life after being raised in the church and believes the church had harmed her social life and ability to function as a normal adult.

Do active members ever stop to ask themselves if this is a possibility? Does the rigid, somewhat black and white structure of the church combined with things like Temple ceremonies, garments, callings create an unhealthy guilt complex or environment for certain people?

Does my friend have an argument? And if she does what does that say for what's supposed to be a restored gospel that brings peace and joy into the hearts of it's recepients??

Your friend probably had some bad experiences but she certainly doesn't have an argument. At least, not unless she is willing to take on what has become mainstream social science research. Religion always produces higher life satisfaction on measured items. Social scientists, BTW, are not known for their religiosity which makes the results of these studies even more compelling. Those who have made a lifestyle of accusing religion are going to have to find a new strategy.

[John Larsen]

I think it is something like boot camp. Some will thrive and excel, some will come out emotionally scared, most will just tolerate it and take the good with the bad.

Is boot camp emotionally scaring? Yes and no. It depends on the person. But it is clear that one size never fits all.

[The Nehor]

She calls herself "a mormon survivor." Claims she had to undergo years of therapy to get back to living a normal life after being raised in the church and believes the church had harmed her social life and ability to function as a normal adult.

Okay, what? I find the Church encourages me to be social. I went and was social for three hours today. From the Church I learned to speak in public, take responsibility for getting things done, and compassion.

Do active members ever stop to ask themselves if this is a possibility?

Yes, I have anyways.

Does the rigid, somewhat black and white structure of the church combined with things like Temple ceremonies, garments, callings create an unhealthy guilt complex or environment for certain people?

Yes, but only because they are trying to live part of the gospel and not the rest. There are two purposes to the Law in Church. To help us improve ourselves and to beat into us that we live it perfectly. This is where King Benjamin's wonderful speech about out own unworthiness comes in. If we remember we are nothing without God we can rejoice.

Trying to 'live the Church' alone must be exhausting and demoralizing.

Does my friend have an argument? And if she does what does that say for what's supposed to be a restored gospel that brings peace and joy into the hearts of it's recepients??

The gospel brings peace and joy to those who live it. If you think you're living it and are consistently unhappy then you are probably doing it wrong.

On the other hand the gospel can cause severe damage in some who are unable to commit. Cain, Nimrod, Balaam, Ananias, Sapphira, Sherem, Laman, Lemuel, and many others were all adherents to the faith and it crushed all of them in the end. The gospel polarizes as the Savior said.

In this specific case I am always wary of those who blame all their personal problems on an institution or another person.

[juliann]

I think it is something like boot camp. Some will thrive and excel, some will come out emotionally scared, most will just tolerate it and take the good with the bad.

Is boot camp emotionally scaring? Yes and no. It depends on the person. But it is clear that one size never fits all.

You must have had interesting bishops if church was like boot camp.

[ERayR]

She calls herself "a mormon survivor." Claims she had to undergo years of therapy to get back to living a normal life after being raised in the church and believes the church had harmed her social life and ability to function as a normal adult.

Do active members ever stop to ask themselves if this is a possibility? Does the rigid, somewhat black and white structure of the church combined with things like Temple ceremonies, garments, callings create an unhealthy guilt complex or environment for certain people?

Does my friend have an argument? And if she does what does that say for what's supposed to be a restored gospel that brings peace and joy into the hearts of it's recepients??

The answer is no. However, misunderstanding and misapplication of the principles involved may enhance some peoples phobias.

[Duncan]

The answer is no. However, misunderstanding and misapplication of the principles involved may enhance some peoples phobias.

Listen to you! if we say the Church is perfect then why new policies or new procedures or heaven's to betsy new revelations from time to time and who applies and who understands everything perfectly all the time, not me and to me that is why we have a Church here in fallen mortality, IMO to learn how to be members of the heavenly Church which I hope, I anticipate, is better then what we have here so in the meantime we deal with imperfection and that can be damaging to some people

[LeSellers]

Does the rigid, somewhat black and white structure of the church combined with things like Temple ceremonies, garments, callings create an unhealthy guilt complex or environment for certain people?

For those who refuse to recognize that their acts are sinful, and that they ought to feel guilty when they sin, and who refuse to repent, then, yes, I suppose these people would have a guilt complex. But this complex is healthy not unhealthy because sin is destructive, and the sin and failure to repent is what makes the person unhappy, not the standards he is failing to live up to.

Wickedness never was happiness. It was true two millennia ago, and it remains true today.

Lehi

[Messenger]

She calls herself "a mormon survivor." Claims she had to undergo years of therapy to get back to living a normal life after being raised in the church and believes the church had harmed her social life and ability to function as a normal adult.

Do active members ever stop to ask themselves if this is a possibility? Does the rigid, somewhat black and white structure of the church combined with things like Temple ceremonies, garments, callings create an unhealthy guilt complex or environment for certain people?

Does my friend have an argument? And if she does what does that say for what's supposed to be a restored gospel that brings peace and joy into the hearts of it's recepients??

auteur55,

While we do put up with people in the church, even local leaders on a steep learning curve, there is nothing in the church structure that would cause any kind of a mental problem in my opinion. However, my personal belief is that it’s always a healthy think to consider the church structure as a possible cause, I simply don’t have any current information in this case that would sway me to think the official church is to blame.

I don’t believe there is any thing in the Temple ceremonies, garments, or callings that would create a guilt complex in and of themselves. However, the church has always taught (like today’s Priesthood lesson) the importance of Honesty. Some people have a hard time when it comes to going to church. Sometimes, not always, it has to do with a conflict that is not congruent with church teachings. I mean, if you know something is wrong, and do it, that can cause psychological problems right there.

Personally, as a convert, I've found more peace within the church then outside of the church. Last week I told my son that there is nothing better than getting inspiration from God in regards to our future path in life. When we close the door on church and God, our spiritual headlights that guide us and help us avoid problems become dim, and we are at the mercy of whatever is directly in front of us.

However, in my High Priest class, where I teach once a month, we have excellent input from a former Stake President. Although he never mentions names, and I never get enough information to know who he is talking about, there are stories about people who have made the wrong choice and have consequences, even physiological ones. My advice is that people should draw nearer to God in a crisis not further away; this would give them the guidance to get through it. When we cut off God from inspiring us, we simply cut ourselves off from his wisdom.

Also, to add one more point, there are lots of people willing to consider issues, problems and concerns with people outside the church. But there are few, even some bishops that are willing to get counseling to those members in the church that request it. I have a very dear friend of mine that is a bishop of the past, who also just happened to have baptized me when I was 15 years old. He is quite outspoken in is talks and beliefs that counseling should be provided to those that need it or request it. If there is any fault with the bishops of the church it may be that sometimes they neglect to offer this.

Although I don’t remember the source, I once heard President Hinckley say the membership makes a person better then they would be on their own. I am 100% confident in that.

[Messenger]

You must have had interesting bishops if church was like boot camp.

I had a Bishop that once yelled at me, in his office, like an army sergeant at the top of his lungs. I told him to put a sock in it. He didn’t last long as a bishop! They weed those guys out pretty fast. And thank goodness they do. This didn’t traumatize me, but I did get a good laugh on my way out the door!

Remember, the local leadership in the church is needed. But they often have a steep learning curve; most of the time we just have patience with them as they have patience with us. God bless them for doing their best.

[Duncan]

For those who refuse to recognize that their acts are sinful, and that they ought to feel guilty when they sin, and who refuse to repent, then, yes, I suppose these people would have a guilt complex. But this complex is healthy not unhealthy because sin is destructive, and the sin and failure to repent is what makes the person unhappy, not the standards he is failing to live up to.

Wickedness never was happiness. It was true two millennia ago, and it remains true today.

Lehi

I had a guilt complex because when I was 12 my Bishop gave me the "Miracle of Forgiveness" and let me tell you, what i did, or didn't do, thought of or didn't think of I felt guilty for or uneasy about, I went to the Bishop's office a thousand times when I was a teen. I can tell you some experiences but woul de guilt yof TMI. It didn't get better on my mission, I just never did anything bad is all, I wasn't doing anything bad mind you but I thought I was and I wish they would have told me that earlier to spare me the grief. I learned later that while it is true that wickedness was never happiness that doesn't mean that because you aren't happy that it means you did something wicked, unhappiness comes from a variety of sources including the MOF for a 12 yr old.

[ERayR]

Listen to you! if we say the Church is perfect then why new policies or new procedures or heaven's to betsy new revelations from time to time and who applies and who understands everything perfectly all the time, not me and to me that is why we have a Church here in fallen mortality, IMO to learn how to be members of the heavenly Church which I hope, I anticipate, is better then what we have here so in the meantime we deal with imperfection and that can be damaging to some people

Please point out the part where I said the church was perfect. The principles do not have to be applied perfectly but they can be misunderstood and misapplied.

[Jeff K.]

Usually people project their own weaknesses on to others in order to claim a cause of the problems they must themselves face of their own making. People survive all kinds of true horrid situations and come out of it stronger. Most in church come out being happier and stronger for the church. I would think someone with such difficulty doesn't "survive" being a Latter-Day Sain, but rather rejects it and in doing so seek to blame that which is rejected rather than taking their own choice into account.

[ERayR]

I had a guilt complex because when I was 12 my Bishop gave me the "Miracle of Forgiveness" and let me tell you, what i did, or didn't do, thought of or didn't think of I felt guilty for or uneasy about, I went to the Bishop's office a thousand times when I was a teen. I can tell you some experiences but woul de guilt yof TMI. It didn't get better on my mission, I just never did anything bad is all, I wasn't doing anything bad mind you but I thought I was and I wish they would have told me that earlier to spare me the grief. I learned later that while it is true that wickedness was never happiness that doesn't mean that because you aren't happy that it means you did something wicked, unhappiness comes from a variety of sources including the MOF for a 12 yr old.

You see the church is not about being bad or good it is first and formost about service and secondly about self improvement. If you remember those priorities good and bad will take care of themselves. One should not feel guilt unless you have harmed another. What you should be doing is working to improve.

[Duncan]

Please point out the part where I said the church was perfect. The principles do not have to be applied perfectly but they can be misunderstood and misapplied.

You didn't say a thing about the Church, I did-but I also wasn't saying anything about that just the misinterpretation and misapplication portion. I see the Church as structure that houses Gospel principles and we agree they can be and are misinterpreted sometimes by some people leaders or not.

[Duncan]

You see the church is not about being bad or good it is first and formost about service and secondly about self improvement. If you remember those priorities good and bad will take care of themselves. One should not feel guilt unless you have harmed another. What you should be doing is working to improve.

Merci beaucoup!

[ERayR]

Merci beaucoup!

I am ignorant when it isn't written in plain english so please interpret.