The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to be Saved!

[evangelist]

"Salvation can only come by baptism".

This pawn of Satan embraces and promotes a doctrine that will lead many to eternal hell. Salvation is by faith and grace.

Baptism is not a requirement!

One attains eternal life (salvation) thru simple belief in the person of Jesus. We see this in the words of Jesus when He said: "Everyone who believes in Him may have eternal life" (John 3:15).

Another time when addressing the people of His day, Jesus was asked: "What must we do to do the works God requires?", Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent" (John 6:28-29).

Note no mention of baptism.

Jesus made it clear I AM THE GATE; WHOEVER ENTERS THROUGH ME WILL BE SAVED (John 10:9).

Again no mention of baptism, apparently to o2bewise, Jesus must have misspoken here.

I would urge my fellow believers in the Lord Jesus our Lord that whosoever speaks against Him by stating baptism is required to be saved. This is in direct opposition to what our Lord said. Jesus said just come unto Him and you will be saved.

Some unbelievers once asked the disciples: "What must I do to be saved?"

They replied: Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved (Acts 16:31).

Note again no mention of baptism. Just belief in the Lord Jesus.

I think for me and my household we will listen to Jesus.

one love

[Nathair/|\]

EV,

You mean heretics like John, Peter, and YHWH Himself?

[frankenstein]

is this a serious thread?

for what purpose did John baptize?

why did Jesus get baptized?

what does "born of water and the spirit" mean?

More importantly, any one who is baptized in the name of Christ, most likely believes in Christ, thus they are saved.

Even more importantly, believe in Christ, I am LDS, thus by your standard I am saved.

[evangelist]

33. Twice as many verses mention grace/faith/belief/trust without water baptism than verses that mention baptism. Other verses mention belief without water baptism: Luke 7:50; John 2:11, 23; John 4:39, 41; John 7:38-39; John 8:30-32; John 9:35-36; John 10:42; John 11:45, 48; John 12:11, 42-44; John 14:1, 12; John 20:31; Acts 14:23; Acts 20:21; Romans 15:13; Philippians 1:29; Titus 3:8. Did the authors miss the opportunity to mention baptism in these many passages if it is so important?

34. Many of the above verses use the language

[evangelist]

is this a serious thread?

for what purpose did John baptize?

why did Jesus get baptized?

what does "born of water and the spirit" mean?

More importantly, any one who is baptized in the name of Christ, most likely believes in Christ, thus they are saved.

Even more importantly, believe in Christ, I am LDS, thus by your standard I am saved.

OT tradition of self righteousness works of tradtions and rituals, like circucission!

Jesus obedience for us, but did Jesus have to get saved by a water baptism because He was a sinner before??

Born of water mean born of the Word of God or the water of the instruction book the Milk and food we need to gear the true gospel!

A infant when born needs water, and the first thing

[frankenstein]

33. Twice as many verses mention grace/faith/belief/trust without water baptism than verses that mention baptism.

one love

But baptism is mentioned, which means one of two things:

The Bible contradicts itself

or

God has a Prophet on earth to clarify.

saying "well X is mention more than Y" does not support anything in terms of "God breathed" word of God. God is not a God of confusion.

[Obiwan]

Evangelist.... What part of BOTH being required per the Bible do you not understand?

Actually, three things are required, believing, baptism, and receiving the Holy Ghost.

Baptism is not optional if one wishes the fullness of salvation. Jesus said a person must be born of water and of the Spirit (John 3:3

[BookofMormonLuvr]

EV-

You will answer before the Judgement Seat of the Great Jehovah for leading people to disobey the commandments of God. I pray that you will repent before the end of your life.

[BCSpace]

Baptism is not a requirement!

One does not have faith in Christ if one is not baptised and therefore one cannot be saved without baptism. Besides a host of Biblical examples, some already given, there is also:

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

1 Peter 3:21

[Deborah]

It always amazes me that people will preach that one is not saved if he actually does more than the minimum. But what is even more amazing is when they ignore anything in scripture that actually contradicts their narrow view. It seems to me the scriptures need to be looked at in the whole and not pick and choose what one wants to believe. I like others here don't understand why the idea of salvation through Jesus Christ and baptism are in any way contradictory, particularly when Jesus himself set the example.

[Hughes]

John 5:24 - "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life."

[MorningStar]

True or False?

Jesus got baptized in water.

[Traela]

Mark 16:16 - "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved"

[jadams_4242]

EV,

You mean heretics like John, Peter, and YHWH Himself?

excellant; but there are many other verses commanding baptism you left out;; you heritic you!

[3DOP]

True or False?

Jesus got baptized in water.

Catholics believe in baptismal regeneration but could not be comfortable with this argument. It could be argued that the Saviour set an example to follow. Most evangelicals believe that one should get baptized after salvation. They undoubtedly believe, as do Catholics, that Jesus did not need to be saved. Further, Jesus was baptized with John's baptism, which is apparently not quite the same as apostolic baptism, having the formula, in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost:

"And he said: In what then were you baptized? Who said: In John's baptism. Then Paul said: John baptized the people with the baptism of penance, saying: That they should believe in him who was to come after him, that is to say, in Jesus. Having heard these things, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

---Ac 19:3-5

Scripturally speaking, I would tend to point to the words of Ananias to Paul when the latter was baptized.

And now why tarriest thou? Rise up, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, invoking his name.

--Ac. 22:16

It seems to me like baptism "washed away Paul's sins".

But I could go either way with it if I wasn't Catholic. I see both arguments as being impossible to exclude if the 66 Book Protestant Bible is the only authority.

[Bernard Gui]

I think for me and my household we will listen to Jesus.

Then listen to this:

2 Nephi 31

[2] Wherefore, the things which I have written sufficeth me, save it be a few words which I must speak concerning the doctrine of Christ; wherefore, I shall speak unto you plainly, according to the plainness of my prophesying.

[3] For my soul delighteth in plainness; for after this manner doth the Lord God work among the children of men. For the Lord God giveth light unto the understanding; for he speaketh unto men according to their language, unto their understanding.

[4] Wherefore, I would that ye should remember that I have spoken unto you concerning that prophet which the Lord showed unto me, that should baptize the Lamb of God, which should take away the sins of the world.

[5] And now, if the Lamb of God, he being holy, should have need to be baptized by water, to fulfil all righteousness, O then, how much more need have we, being unholy, to be baptized, yea, even by water!

[6] And now, I would ask of you, my beloved brethren, wherein the Lamb of God did fulfil all righteousness in being baptized by water?

[7] Know ye not that he was holy? But notwithstanding he being holy, he showeth unto the children of men that, according to the flesh he humbleth himself before the Father, and witnesseth unto the Father that he would be obedient unto him in keeping his commandments.

[8] Wherefore, after he was baptized with water the Holy Ghost descended upon him in the form of a dove.

[9] And again, it showeth unto the children of men the straightness of the path, and the narrowness of the gate, by which they should enter, he having set the example before them.

[10] And he said unto the children of men: Follow thou me. Wherefore, my beloved brethren, can we follow Jesus save we shall be willing to keep the commandments of the Father?

[11] And the Father said: Repent ye, repent ye, and be baptized in the name of my Beloved Son.

[12] And also, the voice of the Son came unto me, saying: He that is baptized in my name, to him will the Father give the Holy Ghost, like unto me; wherefore, follow me, and do the things which ye have seen me do.

[13] Wherefore, my beloved brethren, I know that if ye shall follow the Son, with full purpose of heart, acting no hypocrisy and no deception before God, but with real intent, repenting of your sins, witnessing unto the Father that ye are willing to take upon you the name of Christ, by baptism -- yea, by following your Lord and your Savior down into the water, according to his word, behold, then shall ye receive the Holy Ghost; yea, then cometh the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost; and then can ye speak with the tongue of angels, and shout praises unto the Holy One of Israel.

[14] But, behold, my beloved brethren, thus came the voice of the Son unto me, saying: After ye have repented of your sins, and witnessed unto the Father that ye are willing to keep my commandments, by the baptism of water, and have received the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost, and can speak with a new tongue, yea, even with the tongue of angels, and after this should deny me, it would have been better for you that ye had not known me.

[15] And I heard a voice from the Father, saying: Yea, the words of my Beloved are true and faithful. He that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved.

[16] And now, my beloved brethren, I know by this that unless a man shall endure to the end, in following the example of the Son of the living God, he cannot be saved.

[17] Wherefore, do the things which I have told you I have seen that your Lord and your Redeemer should do; for, for this cause have they been shown unto me, that ye might know the gate by which ye should enter. For the gate by which ye should enter is repentance and baptism by water; and then cometh a remission of your sins by fire and by the Holy Ghost.

[18] And then are ye in this strait and narrow path which leads to eternal life; yea, ye have entered in by the gate; ye have done according to the commandments of the Father and the Son; and ye have received the Holy Ghost, which witnesses of the Father and the Son, unto the fulfilling of the promise which he hath made, that if ye entered in by the way ye should receive.

[19] And now, my beloved brethren, after ye have gotten into this strait and narrow path, I would ask if all is done? Behold, I say unto you, Nay; for ye have not come thus far save it were by the word of Christ with unshaken faith in him, relying wholly upon the merits of him who is mighty to save.

[20] Wherefore, ye must press forward with a steadfastness in Christ, having a perfect brightness of hope, and a love of God and of all men. Wherefore, if ye shall press forward, feasting upon the word of Christ, and endure to the end, behold, thus saith the Father: Ye shall have eternal life.

[21] And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.

The words of Jesus are just and true.

Bernard

[evangelist]

But baptism is mentioned, which means one of two things:

The Bible contradicts itself

or

God has a Prophet on earth to clarify.

saying "well X is mention more than Y" does not support anything in terms of "God breathed" word of God. God is not a God of confusion.

Your right God is not cofused it is religion and men of religion and false doctrines which twist the truth!

one love

[evangelist]

Evangelist.... What part of BOTH being required per the Bible do you not understand?

Actually, three things are required, believing, baptism, and receiving the Holy Ghost.

Baptism is not optional if one wishes the fullness of salvation. Jesus said a person must be born of water and of the Spirit (John 3:3

[evangelist]

EV-

You will answer before the Judgement Seat of the Great Jehovah for leading people to disobey the commandments of God. I pray that you will repent before the end of your life.

What is it that I tell people to disobey extra??

I've been baptized three times so I love water baptism , but the tw timeI get baptized I only just got wet or took a bath out of a religious service for other people and my family tradtion but only lip service as such!

I do tell every people I lead to the Lord to get water baptized some where in their christian walk but first they must go to class to know why they are getting baptized and what the truth , the whole truth behind baptismo!

one love

[evangelist]

One does not have faith in Christ if one is not baptised and therefore one cannot be saved without baptism. Besides a host of Biblical examples, some already given, there is also:

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

1 Peter 3:21

What is meant by what I posted in bold good conscience??

This might help you to put the word of God in right contexts!

one love

[jadams_4242]

Believing is the Key to through heaven gates, and unbelief is to be damned not baptism is damnation, continue reading Mark 16:16!

The jailer was saved by belief also, and they were saved, baptism came after they were already saved by belief and the blood of Jesus !

the thief on the cross was in paradise because of belief , and he never gad a chance to get wet!

Paul taught Rom 10:10 belief with your heart is being saved and no where there mention of a water baptism and if water baptism was so imporrant Paul would have baptized all instead of professing to only baptized few!

A matter of fact Jesus also baptized none!

But yes a saved redeemed Justified person should get water baptized sooner or latter in thier love walk with Jesus , and the same they should go to church , read the Word of God , pray,pay tithes, help people, witness and etc and maybe last but least get baptized when the time is right and you know and learn what baptism is all about!

7. Only Pastors have the right to baptise.

This cannot be so, since there is no record in the New Testament of anyone except apostles or evangelists performing Christian baptism. Philip was an evangelist and not a pastor when he baptised the believers at Samaria. (Acts 8:12; Acts 21:. This idea is related to the doctrine mentioned above, that baptism is baptism into a local church. Yet the believers in Samaria did not as yet have a local church when they were baptised, but only the informal gatherings around an evangelist. Yet when Peter and John, apostles, came down, they did not rebaptise the believers in water but rather prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Ghost. These apostles knew that the baptism of the Holy Spirit was what these new believers needed. It is not recorded how the church in Samaria was later organised.

We should release that Jesus gave the command to baptise to the original apostles, and yet they were instructed to teach DISCIPLES to obey all that Jesus had commanded the apostles, including the instruction to baptise and teach the same things further on so that every generation of disciples would have the same instruction (Matthew 28:18-20). From this we can see that every baptised disciple who is following the teaching of the Lord has the right to baptise new disciples in water. However, such disciples should submit in this matter to their pastor and elders so as not to create disunity in the church. If the pastor of a church insists on baptising all the converts in that church, he should not be opposed by church members. However, if he neglects to baptise those who should be baptised, a real disciple who desires to follow the Lord in the waters of baptism should find someone who will baptise him according to the will of God. If the pastor lacks the wisdom of Jesus and Paul who both knew they were not sent primarily to baptise (John 4:2; 1 Corinthians 1:14-17), then in time of revival he may well wear himself in his efforts to baptise all converts.

one love

Evangelist! C.Moore

You are seeing only part of scripture; you take one verse and understand it to mean everything? if "beleiving" is all we need to do then why did not the bible say one word and nothing else... i;e;; "beleive"... what about all the many other things jesus taught??/ are they not important? and also "before one "CAN" be baptised one must "beleive" it seems this is where you are getting off track.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

So when you tell people to get "water baptized", it is OK, but when people who believe it is a commandment of God tell people to get "water baptized" it is a damnable heresy that will lead people to hell?

Gotcha.

[evangelist]

John 5:24 - "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life."

Where is the baptism of water in that verse ??

Notice we already have eternal life and a awesome relationship with God by believing alone and then grace come to us by God!

Amen!

[evangelist]

True or False?

Jesus got baptized in water.

true, and I did also after I was saved , after I was born again and after I was Justified, redeemed, and sanctified, Holy before God I also got water baptized 6 weeks latter!

one love

[BookofMormonLuvr]

Where is the baptism of water in that verse ??

Notice we already have eternal life and a awesome relationship with God by believing alone and then grace come to us by God!

Amen!

If you believe in Jesus you will do as He commands... get baptized. It is as simple as that... those who truly have faith in Christ do as He asks- those who only pay Him lip-service do not.