LDS and "Friends of Scouting"...

[cinepro]

A recent study by "Charity Navigator" has produced some interesting info about how the national BSA organization spends its money. Obviously, an organization of this size (and longevity) is going to have some collection of assets (such as the Norman Rockwell paintings). But is there a point where enough is enough?

Critics Blast Boy Scouts

If you have given money for "Friends of Scouting" in the past, would this info change your feelings about the program?

[Scott Lloyd]

A recent study by "Charity Navigator" has produced some interesting info about how the national BSA organization spends its money. Obviously, an organization of this size (and longevity) is going to have some collection of assets (such as the Norman Rockwell paintings). But is there a point where enough is enough?

Critics Blast Boy Scouts

If you have given money for "Friends of Scouting" in the past, would this info change your feelings about the program?

You're a bit late with this one. Lee Davidson of the Deseret News did an expose a few years ago about the exorbitant salaries of local BSA officials, this just before the annual "Friends of Scouting" drives in Utah. It created quite a stir.

[Scottie]

I dunno... seems like a pretty low salary for the CEO of such a large organization. You need to pay for talent. Seems like the BSA is a pretty well run organization, and I'm sure we could credit the CEO with that.

How is $453k for the GSA CEO somehow below the threshold of acceptable CEO pay, but $1.13m is WAAAAAAY too excessive??

[Nofear]

BSA's response to the original report or similar such one. Does not address other claims of abuse.

[Brenda]

I have mixed feelings. I totally support the good done by the BSA. All my sons achieved Eagle rank and we are very proud of them for this. We feel it was worth all the effort. I've attended the LDS Week at the Philmont ranch in New Mexico and came away with a deep appreciation for scouting. It is a good, worthwhile program.

However, info like this about the use of money is irritating to say the least. The pressure to donate every year to FoS is pretty strong in our ward. Now I don't know what to think.

[Scott Lloyd]

I have mixed feelings. I totally support the good done by the BSA. All my sons achieved Eagle rank and we are very proud of them for this. We feel it was worth all the effort. I've attended the LDS Week at the Philmont ranch in New Mexico and came away with a deep appreciation for scouting. It is a good, worthwhile program.

However, info like this about the use of money is irritating to say the least. The pressure to donate every year to FoS is pretty strong in our ward. Now I don't know what to think.

I think the pressure to donate has been excessive in the past. Perhaps it continues to be so in some areas of the Church. Times being what they are, I hope it has been moderated to a great degree.

[frankenstein]

However, info like this about the use of money is irritating to say the least. The pressure to donate every year to FoS is pretty strong in our ward. Now I don't know what to think.

we go home when the ward has the combined RS/Preisthood FoS donation meeting.

[Scott Lloyd]

we go home when the ward has the combined RS/Preisthood FoS donation meeting.

Does your ward really have such a meeting? That strikes me as improper. I'd skip out on it as well. I'd go home and study my scriptures or do something else for the Sabbath edification that should be offered at church.

[Nofear]

The Friends of Scouting program is the only fund raiser with permission to be encouraged over the pulpit. I have heard of a special EQ/RS meeting for it though.

[Scottie]

Why is it that the girl scouts sell cookies as a fund raiser, but the BSA just wants a free handout??

I say send the scouts around with a signup sheet of yardwork that the scouts could do in trade for a donation to FoS. I'd be more than happy to pay them $20 to weed my lawn.

[Scottie]

The Friends of Scouting program is the only fund raiser with permission to be encouraged over the pulpit. I have heard of a special EQ/RS meeting for it though.

A previous ward actually called men to go door-to-door as FoS collectors. I was called.

[Brenda]

we go home when the ward has the combined RS/Preisthood FoS donation meeting.

I've never seen this done. If BSA genuinely needs the money to operate, then I totally support donating to FoS. And if a bishop agrees to hold a meeting like this, then he has every right. Scouting is our YM program.

But if BSA is misusing their money, then that must change here and now. Has the Church made any statement about it? Living outside of Utah, I miss out on a lot.

[Scott Lloyd]

The Friends of Scouting program is the only fund raiser with permission to be encouraged over the pulpit. I have heard of a special EQ/RS meeting for it though.

Apparently, even Church leaders weren't fully aware of the salaries of BSA execs before Lee Davidson's Deseret News piece came out.

[Scott Lloyd]

I've never seen this done. If BSA genuinely needs the money to operate, then I totally support donating to FoS. And if a bishop agrees to hold a meeting like this, then he has every right. Scouting is our YM program.

Sorry, Brenda, holding a meeting during part of the three-hour block for the express purpose of pressuring people into donating strikes me as a misuse of precious Sabbath-day worship time. I sincerely hope such a practice is not widespread.

[mfbukowski]

Sorry, Brenda, holding a meeting during part of the three-hour block for the express purpose of pressuring people into donating strikes me as a misuse of precious Sabbath-day worship time. I sincerely hope such a practice is not widespread.

I agree, and the ward scouts receive no direct benefit from FOS donations.

[Vex]

Why is it that the girl scouts sell cookies as a fund raiser, but the BSA just wants a free handout??

You mean like when the boy scouts sell the tins of pop corn?

I say send the scouts around with a signup sheet of yardwork that the scouts could do in trade for a donation to FoS. I'd be more than happy to pay them $20 to weed my lawn.

We usually do that for free--At least when I was in the program.

[cinepro]

Why is it that the girl scouts sell cookies as a fund raiser, but the BSA just wants a free handout??

I say send the scouts around with a signup sheet of yardwork that the scouts could do in trade for a donation to FoS. I'd be more than happy to pay them $20 to weed my lawn.

Most gentile Scout troops sell popcorn in the fall. And I don't think they do anything like "Friends of Scouting".

[Scottie]

Heh... must be a non-Utah thing. I've never seen a tin of popcorn sold by a boy scout.

I would MUCH rather buy something like that than give a free handout, especially when it isn't even the scouts going door to door to ask for it!

[frankenstein]

Does your ward really have such a meeting? That strikes me as improper. I'd skip out on it as well. I'd go home and study my scriptures or do something else for the Sabbath edification that should be offered at church.

yes this combined Preisthood/RS meeting was about one month ago, I did not have money to give, and I do not need to be propagandized on the benefits of scouting, so I did not feel bad about leaving after the second hour. I do not know what the meeting was about but it the meeting had full BSA pomp and circumstance i.e. color guard presentation. just for reference this was a Arizona ward

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Living outside of Utah, I miss out on a lot

i have too much to comment on this, perhaps I am reading too much in to it, but all in all, I hope you are happy where you live.

[hagoth7]

I have mixed feelings.

I don't.

As a kid, I never cared for the approach of "here's a round cloth trophy you can blazon on your chest" for doing/learning something that was worth doing/learning anyway. Seemed too trite. Didn't ring true. (The book "Punished by Rewards" eventually helped me understand why I never liked the program.)

And I expressed that personal disconnect with the program each time a bishop asked me to serve in YM.

That doesn't mean I didn't support the program. Or that I don't acknowledge that it serves something of a purpose.

It just means I supported the program out of duty - not out of conviction.

(Including knocking on doors for Fos).

[Walden]

Why is it that the girl scouts sell cookies as a fund raiser, but the BSA just wants a free handout??

I say send the scouts around with a signup sheet of yardwork that the scouts could do in trade for a donation to FoS. I'd be more than happy to pay them $20 to weed my lawn.

Exactly....I have a hillside that I need cleared and would gladly pay the local scouts a nice sum of money to do so. Instead of working on that merit badge for basketry or leatherwork (really, are these skills even applicable anymore?), why aren't these boys out raising money instead of asking for a free handout? Especially when the majority of those handouts come from members of the LDS church who already make large financial sacrifices for their faith.

[cinepro]

As a kid, I never cared for the approach of "here's a round cloth trophy you can blazon on your chest" for doing/learning something that was worth doing/learning anyway. Seemed too trite. Didn't ring true. (The book "Punished by Rewards" eventually helped me understand why I never liked the program.)

I'm a huge Alfie Kohn fan, especially when it comes to parenting, but I also think there's great benefit in the Merit Badge program. At the very least, it provides well structured introductions to dozens of different topics, many of which most teenage boys would never be exposed to.

Sure, I could have learned how to sail a boat anywhere, but every time I see my "Small Boat Sailing" merit badge, I think of how hard I worked at Scout camp to earn that badge, and how much fun I had sailing around the lake. But it's (obviously) not the badge that made it worthwhile.

I also think LDS troops get a little out of balance in their focus on merit badges and the Eagle rank, to the detriment of the program.

Also, the nature of the merit badges helps avoid many of the pitfalls of the "rewards" Alfie discusses; it is, after all, merely an inexpensive cloth patch. It's when parents or leaders start attaching bribes and punishments that things get objectionable (i.e. not being able to drive until the Eagle Rank is attained).

[Vex]

Most gentile Scout troops sell popcorn in the fall. And I don't think they do anything like "Friends of Scouting".

It's not just gentile scout troops... unless you're counting everyone outside of Utah as gentile... then well... I have nothing to say.

[hagoth7]

...At the very least, it provides well structured introductions to dozens of different topics, many of which most teenage boys would never be exposed to.

I agree.

Some would simply get more out of a structured approach to an array of topics if it didn't come with the other external trappings. (But that "some" is clearly a minority....most young men are extraverted.)

Sure, I could have learned how to sail a boat anywhere, but every time I see my "Small Boat Sailing" merit badge, I think of how hard I worked at Scout camp to earn that badge, and how much fun I had sailing around the lake.It

Sure. Wouldn't a picture of you and your buddies on that boat accomplish the exact same thing - and then some?

I also think LDS troops get a little out of balance in their focus on merit badges and the Eagle rank, to the detriment of the program.

Agreed. I'd be interested in hearing of people who've seen successes blending a scouting program with the priesthood's achievement program.

Also, the nature of the merit badges helps avoid many of the pitfalls of the "rewards" Alfie discusses; it is, after all, merely an inexpensive cloth patch.

Yes and no. The fact that is given to be worn in public meetings makes it more than just an inexpensive patch.

It's when parents or leaders start attaching bribes and punishments that things get objectionable (i.e. not being able to drive until the Eagle Rank is attained).

While true, the extrinsic aspect of wearing such a badge functions essentially as a bribe - a carrot - which can numb/distract young men from some of the intrinsic rewards of the pursuit for personal growth. Wouldn't you agree?

I'll give an example. At a soccer game, instead of chasing the ball, one boy was playing ring-around-the-rosie mid-field with a friend. For a four-year-old, I think he had the right focus for his age group....since the core purpose of such athletic events for kids that age, in my opinion, is the socialization. At that age, the game is just a backdrop for learning how to make friends.

Scouting is much the same. It serves a purpose. But for my tastes, the trappings often distract young men from its actual purpose/intent. Some learn to compete for the prestige of advancement - for external rewards - including the praise/encouragement of others. Methinks the clamor of all that - surrounding a young man who is still trying to figure out what's important - can lead him to glom on to long-term attitudes, behaviors, and pursuits based on a mirage.

Thoughts?

[ERayR]

I have mixed feelings. I totally support the good done by the BSA. All my sons achieved Eagle rank and we are very proud of them for this. We feel it was worth all the effort. I've attended the LDS Week at the Philmont ranch in New Mexico and came away with a deep appreciation for scouting. It is a good, worthwhile program.

However, info like this about the use of money is irritating to say the least. The pressure to donate every year to FoS is pretty strong in our ward. Now I don't know what to think.

I have some other issues with the professional scouting organization (not the volunteers)and this doesn't help.