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What is a Seer?


consiglieri

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This is a spin-off of a current thread.

This thread seeks to understand what a "seer" is, and why we don't seem to have any left in the LDS Church.

Or maybe I am just looking in the wrong places.

To get started, I think a "seer" is one who "sees" things not normally visible to others, and in the LDS context, one who "sees" these otherwise invisible things through a spiritual gift.

Any takers?

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

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To get started, I think a "seer" is one who "sees" things not normally visible to others, and in the LDS context, one who "sees" these otherwise invisible things through a spiritual gift.

And that there is often a tangible medium through which the seer sees. Such as a stone, or chalice.

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And that there is often a tangible medium through which the seer sees. Such as a stone, or chalice.

Not necessarily. A seer can be someone who understands or interprets as well. Joseph Smith didn't always use a stone to "see."

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Cinepro,

The confusion was stated in the OP --

Do any of the 15 Apostles *see* the otherwise un-seeable? I'm having anecdotes of the Kirtland Visions like lolipops dance through my head. Joseph and Oliver saw Jesus, angels, a pavement of gold, etc. Joseph *saw* the 'book of Abra(ha)m' by looking at the Book of the Dead. Joseph saw English words on the seer stone while looking into the hat (plate presence undetermined). Joseph regaled us with the vision of the pearly gates (you know, they're big flippin' pearls) as well as what the Earth looks like in its celestial glory (looks like that big diamond Zakuska showed us the other day). Either these things are still happening and we never hear about them, or they don't happen. I can't see anyone sitting there with a straight face and insisting that maybe they have and they're just really sacred because Joseph Smith was eagerly forthcoming with all his visions, and those visions catalyzed people to know their place in the battle of good & evil, to join or to run away. Our Seers withholding legitimate visions from us seems counter-intuitive if the end goal is that people join the Church and fight for Jesus.

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(Seminary Manual)

Two reasons we may not "see" seership.

1. The availability of the fulness of the gospel allows every righteous man to be a prophet. Further, the outpouring of the Spirit promised at the last days indicates (to me at least) that seership may not be confined to the FP & Q12.

.

(Joel 2)

2. A seer can be withhheld from men because of their iniquity:

(2 Nephi 27)

The more cynical and wicked the world becomes, the less visible seers are generally.

Perhaps, there are more seers than we know and they simply are restrained by the Spirit from declaring those things which they have seen.

IF we are to assume the eyes of Seers have been close, which of the your two scenarios do you think is the case.

I hope it's #1

Because #2 scares me.

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EbedRose.png

Perhaps we are making it to complicated? Could it be that a seer and a prophet are pretty much the same thing? Nuanced a little in meaning, maybe but still not all that dissimilar?

"Beforetime in Israel, when a man went to enquire of God, thus he spake, Come, and let us go to the seer: for he that is now called a Prophet was beforetime called a Seer." (1 Samuel 9:9)
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IF we are to assume the eyes of Seers have been close, which of the your two scenarios do you think is the case.

I hope it's #1

Because #2 scares me.

I think it's both scenarios simultaneously. Those who believe continue to have spiritual experiences some of which extend into the realm of seership even as the rest of the world becomes less believing and more cynical. I believe that seers are hidden from the view of doubters and cynics and are restrained from revealing all they know and have seen due to the spiritual condition of the society in which they live.

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The distinction is made in the BOM. Mosiah 8:13.

"Prophet" can mean a lot of different things. I don't think that Ammon is using it in the same way that we Latter-day Saints typically think of a prophet. I would guess that our definition of "prophet" would be near-synonymous with Ammon's definition of "seer."

"But a seer[,as opposed to a prophet,] can know of things which are past, and also of things which are to come, and by them shall all things be revealed, or, rather, shall secret things be made manifest, and hidden things shall come to light, and things which are not known shall be made known by them, and also things shall be made known by them which otherwise could not be known." (Mosiah 8:17)

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"Prophet" can mean a lot of different things. I don't think that Ammon is using it in the same way that we Latter-day Saints typically think of a prophet. I would guess that our definition of "prophet" would be near-synonymous with Ammon's definition of "seer."

"But a seer[,as opposed to a prophet,] can know of things which are past, and also of things which are to come, and by them shall all things be revealed, or, rather, shall secret things be made manifest, and hidden things shall come to light, and things which are not known shall be made known by them, and also things shall be made known by them which otherwise could not be known." (Mosiah 8:17)

Possibly but the distinction is made nonetheless in the Bible Dictionary:

BIBLE DICTIONARY

Seer

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Our Seers withholding legitimate visions from us seems counter-intuitive if the end goal is that people join the Church and fight for Jesus.

Back in the 90s, I picked up a book written by Dallin H Oaks back in the 70s, commissioned by the First Presidency and the Twelve to explain the Church's formal opposition to the Equal Rights Amdendment in the US. The book mentioned that, if the ERA passed, it would make it virtually impossible to fight against the introduction of 'homosexual marriage' at some point in the future. Even in the 90s, I thought that sounded like a ridiculously inaccurate vision of what the future might hold. I've revised my judgment. The Seers saw this one coming afar off.

True story: When I was a student in America, Kenneth Godfrey, my Institute teacher, shared with us a story about being sent up to get a document from the First presidency vault when, I think, either Harold B Lee or Spencer W Kimball was Church president. Whilst waiting around for the president to find the document, he noticed a shopping bag on the shelf and, screwing up the courage, asked what was in it. The reply was that it was a seer stone that he liked to carry between home and office. To that day, Bro Godfrey said, he didn't know if there was a seer stone in a shopping bag in the FP vault or if the president of the Church was making a very funny joke.

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This is a spin-off of a current thread.

This thread seeks to understand what a "seer" is, and why we don't seem to have any left in the LDS Church.

Or maybe I am just looking in the wrong places.

To get started, I think a "seer" is one who "sees" things not normally visible to others, and in the LDS context, one who "sees" these otherwise invisible things through a spiritual gift.

Any takers?

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

A simple way to answer your question is by asking three other questions and provide answers to them. Here are the questions:

1. What have the SEERS seen in the last 10 years or so?

2. Out of what the SEERS have seen, what has been published or disclosed to the body of the Church?

3. Is what's SEEN by a SEER ever disclosed? Cite examples for the last 20 years.

Any answers?

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A simple way to answer your question is by asking three other questions and provide answers to them. Here are the questions:

1. What have the SEERS seen in the last 10 years or so?

2. Out of what the SEERS have seen, what has been published or disclosed to the body of the Church?

3. Is what's SEEN by a SEER ever disclosed? Cite examples for the last 20 years.

Any answers?

Hinckley saw the recession that we're currently in.

Nah, I have no way of knowing that. But maybe. He did say get your houses in order.

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A simple way to answer your question is by asking three other questions and provide answers to them. Here are the questions:

1. What have the SEERS seen in the last 10 years or so?

2. Out of what the SEERS have seen, what has been published or disclosed to the body of the Church?

3. Is what's SEEN by a SEER ever disclosed? Cite examples for the last 20 years.

Any answers?

I'll answer with another 3 questions!

1. Do SEERS necessarily reveal their visions, or do they mainly make decisions based on their visions?

2. Is the disclosure of a vision-based decision by a SEER a satisfying way to answer these questions?

3. Do you want a list of vision-based decisions made by our SEERS in the last 10 (or 20) years?

I think it is fairly obvious that disclosing sacred experiences would be counter-productive in our current period of time.

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