What is a Seer?

[nicolasconnault]

OK. Bye.

I should have probably added that this is my opinion... Still, I'm not sure why you're saying "Bye".

[zerinus]

Respectfully, this could be said about any street preacher.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

There are false prophets as well as true prophets. False prophets imitate the words and actions of true prophets. The "street preachers" are also prophets, but false ones, and they mimic what true prophets do.

I recall reading something from Joseph Smith, but I can't remember where, so I am going to have to paraphrase what he said from memory. Perhaps someone else can remember the source and give us the reference. He was referring to the priests and ministers of the day, who were most active in denouncing and persecuting him. He said that "when someone gets up and preaches that you must do this and that, otherwise you will go to hell or will be punished in the next life, he is acting the role of a prophet, either a true or false prophet, as the case may be." What he meant was that those priests and ministers were acting as prophets, but not necessarily true ones.

[zerinus]

I see O-Brother beat me to it.

"Oh, brother!"

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

See above.

[zerinus]

Do you have a scripture that defines prophecy as exhortation to good works and program management?

Yes, there are hundreds. Here are a couple:

Mosiah 11

:

20 And it came to pass that there was a man among them whose name was Abinadi; and he went forth among them, and began to prophesy, saying: Behold, thus saith the Lord, and thus hath he commanded me, saying, Go forth, and say unto this people, thus saith the Lord

[nicolasconnault]

I'm still confused as to the intent behind the OP... What sort of "prophecy" are people expecting? Besides just asking for a prophecy so we look a little bit less silly to outsiders, what is the pressing need for the foretelling of something new?

[mercyngrace]

Just came across this quote, which I thought might be pertinent:

Probably the most pertinent thing on this thread. I wonder if the people of Jerusalem dismissed Lehi's prophecy because "he didn't say 'thus saith the Lord'" or "we've heard all this 'Jerusalem will be destroyed' business before".

It isn't his phrasing or the novelty of his words that qualify a man as a seer. Have the men leading this church called you out of a crumbling Babylon? Have they pinpointed the exact ways in which its destruction has come? Have they marked the path of safety? They have and they continue to do so. If you do not see and hear evidence of their seership all around you, I point you to the modified words of Shakespeare:

The fault, dear brethren, is not in our seers, but in ourselves, that we are underlings.

Seek, like Nephi, to see what the seers have seen. When the heavens are opened unto you, then judge their prophecies, counsel, and warnings.

[Hamba Tuhan]

Seek, like Nephi, to see what the seers have seen. When the heavens are opened unto you, then judge their prophecies, counsel, and warnings.

[zerinus]

To answer your question, a "calling" is not prophecy. But I agree with you that it is a revelation directly connected with inspiration.

A (true) calling is a prophecy:

1 Timothy 4

:

14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee

by prophecy,

with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.

Articles of Faith 1

:

5 We believe that a man must be called of God,

by prophecy,

and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.

If you call it a prophecy, you open a can of worms. Why? George P. Lee was a General Authority. He was called but not chosen. He wasn't prophesied. There was no scripture that said his name would be among the 70. He was excommunicated. Responding to a global crisis and building new temples? Masons build new temples and have inspiration on dealing with a global crisis. That's is NOT prophecy. The Catholic Church builds new Churches and responds to crisis.

I am sure you're very familiar with D&C 130. Here's an example of a prophecy:

12 I prophesy, in the name of the Lord God, that the commencement of the adifficulties which will cause much bloodshed previous to the coming of the Son of Man will be in South Carolina.

OK. Now let's go back to general conference and I want you to show me one instance where the line above has been uttered in the last 10-20 years. Even 30.

I think that you simply do not understand the meaning of prophecy. Prophecy is not about foretelling future events---although that is one of its many different manifestations. John the Revelator says that "the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy" (Revelation 19:10). How does that square with your definition of prophecy?

[zerinus]

OK. Name one new prophecy in the last 30 years. An official one, with all the correct wording as Joseph did, predicting a future event that has or will be fulfilled.

Does this qualify as a "prophecy" in your estimation:

Jacob 4

:

15 And now I, Jacob, am

led on by the Spirit unto prophesying;

. . .

which is then followed by chapter 5, which is a long quote from the prophecy of Zenos, which he concludes with these words:

Jacob 6

:

1 And now, behold, my brethren,

as I said unto you that I would prophesy, behold, this is my prophecy

[zerinus]

Let's go along with what you stated above. Are you saying that everything that's spoken in General Conference by the Prophet or other General Authorities is prophecy? If so, give me an example of a prophecy - which has already been predefined several times to include the prediction or foretelling of something that is to come.

That is just not the definition of prophecy. Why do you find it difficult to accept that?

I understand the counsel part. But, unless I'm talking Greek here, I am asking for ONE SINGLE example of a prophecy. Is that too much to ask? Let's go back 10 years, something more recent.

How about this, from the Proclamation on the Family:

We warn that individuals who violate covenants of chastity, who abuse spouse or offspring, or who fail to fulfill family responsibilities will one day stand accountable before God. Further, we warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets.

How does that differ from the prophecy of Jacob quoted earlier?

Unless, the definition of prophecy has completely changed and prophecies are now "talks" and "counsel". IF that's the case, I didn't get the memo.

The definition of prophecy hasn't changed. You simply do not understand what is a prophecy.

[zerinus]

With all due respect, that is not new prophecy or prediction. Brigham Young said the above and more much ealier:

Where does it say in scripture that prophets must always bring new prophecy (by which I presume you mean something that had not been prophesied before)?

[zerinus]

I quote scripture most of the time but you took the above out of context. I was asserting the definition of the word prophecy for clarity. Prophecy was being interpreted as "counsel" and "talks" hence the necessity to find more reliable definition If we use the Bible Dictionary or scripture, it still supports that prophecy is prediction of future events as well.

Neither of them do! Here is the article in the Bible Dictionary for "prophet" (there is none for "prophecy"):

The work of a Hebrew prophet was to act as God's messenger and make known God's will. The message was usually prefaced with the words "Thus saith Jehovah." He taught men about God's character, showing the full meaning of his dealings with Israel in the past. It was therefore part of the prophetic office to preserve and edit the records of the nation's history; and such historical books as Joshua, Judges, 1 and 2 Samuel, 1 and 2 Kings were known by the Jews as the former Prophets. It was also the prophet's duty to denounce sin and foretell its punishment, and to redress, so far as he could, both public and private wrongs. He was to be, above all, a preacher of righteousness. When the people had fallen away from a true faith in Jehovah, the prophets had to try to restore that faith and remove false views about the character of God and the nature of the Divine requirement. In certain cases prophets predicted future events, e.g., there are the very important prophecies announcing the coming of Messiah's kingdom; but as a rule a prophet was a

forthteller

rather than a

foreteller

. In a general sense a prophet is anyone who has a testimony of Jesus Christ by the Holy Ghost, as in Num. 11:25

[zerinus]

Several pages of thread and:

Y2K ??

Prop 8 warnings ??

Politics ??

Counsel ??

I love ya'll crazy Mormons BUT whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat ????

Peace,

Ceeboo

Is the Pope a prophet? If he isn't, what is he?

[erichard]

Do you have a list of at least 3 prophecies from this man that came to pass? I don't believe Church leaders would excommunicate a man because he has the spirit of prophecy. That's part of our doctrine, isn't it?

Hi again,

Here is a list of Koyle prophecies from the book I linked to:

The following prophecies, though not necessarily the greatest, deserve mention and serious consideration:

[erichard]

And how do we determine that in view of Joel 2: 28?

Joel 2:28 (King James Version)

...Why couldn't the FRLDS receive revelations just like anyone else ...

(Who is the FRLDS? )

The scriptures clearly teach that in the last days the fulness of the gospel will be given first to the Gentiles, but eventually the Gentiles will be full of all manner of abominations, and at that time the Lord will turn against them.

Then will come a time of cleansing and judgments of the likes few generations have ever seen.

Finally, the true blood of Israel will be fully converted, and the tribes of Israel will be identified, gathered and established again. This will culminate in the establishment of political Zion and its laws. (AoF 10)

Where are we now in the above sequence? We are where the Gentiles are full of all manner of abominations. So before there will be another outpouring of spiritual gifts, there has to be a time of cleansing and judgments.

So we are in a time when the wise will develop a close relationship with the Holy Ghost, and find and prepare a place of refuge to get ready for the coming calamities.

1 But, behold, in the last days, or in the days of the Gentiles