What is a Seer?

[O-Brother]

Hinckley saw the recession that we're currently in.

Nah, I have no way of knowing that. But maybe. He did say get your houses in order.

Economists have been predicting the recession for a long time.

Here's an example of an LDS Seer. He prophesied it, saw it and revealed it to the people. Prophet, Seer. Revelator.

E.T. Benson describing the economy in his time and our time. He describes our time very well:

A seer today would describe our time 10-40 years from now. Here's a guy who's not a seer but a Trend Researcher who has s been predicting a lot things to a "T" for a long time, including 9-11:

Gerald Celente. Look him up.

[mercyngrace]

I'll answer with another 3 questions!

1. Do SEERS necessarily reveal their visions, or do they mainly make decisions based on their visions?

2. Is the disclosure of a vision-based decision by a SEER a satisfying way to answer these questions?

3. Do you want a list of vision-based decisions made by our SEERS in the last 10 (or 20) years?

I think it is fairly obvious that disclosing sacred experiences would be counter-productive in our current period of time.

After his father/prophet/seer saw a vision and had the heavens opened to him, Nephi approached the Lord and asked to receive the same vision. He was a righteous man and the Lord granted his request.

So another question might be - If you believe that seers can and do see things that cannot be known except through divine means, are you asking the Lord to help you see and understand what these men know?

[nicolasconnault]

After his father/prophet/seer saw a vision and had the heavens opened to him, Nephi approached the Lord and asked to receive the same vision. He was a righteous man and the Lord granted his request.

So another question might be - If you believe that seers can and do see things that cannot be known except through divine means, are you asking the Lord to help you see and understand what these men know?

Great question. I think I should. I may even do that! Thanks for the suggestion!

[sleepyhead]

This is a spin-off of a current thread.

This thread seeks to understand what a "seer" is, and why we don't seem to have any left in the LDS Church.

Or maybe I am just looking in the wrong places.

To get started, I think a "seer" is one who "sees" things not normally visible to others, and in the LDS context, one who "sees" these otherwise invisible things through a spiritual gift.

Any takers?

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

Hello Consiglieri,

I've been ordering the past episodes of Medium on netflix. Apparently there really is an Allison Dubau. Back when there was an airplane crash during the Clinton administration there was a guy who received a dream not to travel on the flight. I'm sure many LDS receive info from other sources than the five senses.

[O-Brother]

I'll answer with another 3 questions!

1. Do SEERS necessarily reveal their visions, or do they mainly make decisions based on their visions?

2. Is the disclosure of a vision-based decision by a SEER a satisfying way to answer these questions?

3. Do you want a list of vision-based decisions made by our SEERS in the last 10 (or 20) years?

I think it is fairly obvious that disclosing sacred experiences would be counter-productive in our current period of time.

#3 - Joseph Smith had no problems disclosing sacred things, did he? That has never been counter-productive. What's the difference?

#1. I don't know. It would be nice to learn how it's done.

#2. Yes.

[Deborah]

#3 - Joseph Smith had no problems disclosing sacred things, did he? That has never been counter-productive. What's the difference?

Actually there were a lot of things Joseph didn't reveal. He was able to keep many things to himself and when things did get out it was usually from other people. He made comments related to this that one reason more wasn't revealed is because people didn't always know when to keep sacred things sacred but he himself did. He revealed what was needed for the opening of the dispensation and the organization of the church but there was much that he kept to himself or revealed only to his most trusted associates as the people weren't ready for it.

[O-Brother]

Actually there were a lot of things Joseph didn't reveal. He was able to keep many things to himself and when things did get out it was usually from other people. He made comments related to this that one reason more wasn't revealed is because people didn't always know when to keep sacred things sacred but he himself did. He revealed what was needed for the opening of the dispensation and the organization of the church but there was much that he kept to himself or revealed only to his most trusted associates as the people weren't ready for it.

But he DID reveal a lot, didn't he? I mean D&C for example. So he was a revelator. I think the topic is about a SEER. What's a seer and what has been seen and disclosed in the the last 20 years?

[Ceeboo]

Actually there were a lot of things Joseph didn't reveal. He was able to keep many things to himself and when things did get out it was usually from other people.

Huh ???????

Peace,

Ceeboo

[consiglieri]

What's a seer and what has been seen and disclosed in the the last 20 years?

So far, the answer appears to be nothing.

And we've got 15 of them!

Not an impressive track record . . .

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[Jason]

The seers of the Church foresaw problems if Proposition 8 was not adopted in California, and possibly foresaw that Church assistance would allow the effort to succeed.

[consiglieri]

The seers of the Church foresaw problems if Proposition 8 was not adopted in California, and possibly foresaw that Church assistance would allow the effort to succeed.

Do you make a distinction between spiritual seership and political calculations?

[Ceeboo]

The seers of the Church foresaw problems if Proposition 8 was not adopted in California, and possibly foresaw that Church assistance would allow the effort to succeed.

Ceeboo ( along with another 12 or 13 folks ) saw that too !!!!

Perhaps a name change to " Ceeboo-No Pundit - Seer " is in order.

Peace,

Ceeboo

[rodheadlee]

I've seen a Seer come through these boards and be banned.

[mercyngrace]

Huh ???????

Peace,

Ceeboo

Ceeboo,

Several times Joseph Smith spoke and said (paraphrasing) 'There is so much more I would tell you but I can not because of your unbelief'.

MMnG

[Ceeboo]

I've seen a Seer come through these boards and be banned.

Hi rodheadlee,

For clarity, if I may.

" Mad " rule 45, section d clearly states:

There will be no seering permitted in this forum. If any poster ( LDS or not ) is caught seering they will be banned without exception.

Peace,

Ceeboo

[Jason]

Do you make a distinction between spiritual seership and political calculations?

Of course.

For that matter, Wilford Woodruff clearly saw what would happen if he hadn't created the manifesto.

[Ceeboo]

Ceeboo,

Several times Joseph Smith spoke and said (paraphrasing) 'There is so much more I would tell you but I can not because of your unbelief'.

MMnG

Hey MnG,

Thanks ( Yes, I have seen this contribution before ).

My " huh " was because the post I replied to seemed rather contradictory. Don't you think ?? ( Perhaps just a simple misunderstanding on my part ).

Peace,

Ceeboo

[mercyngrace]

So far, the answer appears to be nothing.

And we've got 15 of them!

Not an impressive track record . . .

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

The thing about a seer is that you have to have the Spirit to understand him, Consiglieri . Other wise he appears as a "wild man" or to put it in modern terms - he may seem out-of-touch, out-of-date, or out-of sync with contemporary society and thought. You know, like building an ark on a dry day. Or storing grains when the harvest is plentiful. He may even suggest that gender is immutable or popular cultural practices have longer term consequences than his contemporaries realize.

Perhaps the reason some don't see seership in action is because they are blessed to have regular exposure to this phenomenal spiritual gift. It's tough to see the stars on a sunny day. But you step out into the darkness - the real darkness of society - and you'll find a lot of people who don't know basic principles that you and I accept as foundational.

[O-Brother]

So far, the answer appears to be nothing.

And we've got 15 of them!

Not an impressive track record . . .

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

As far as seeing into the future, I reluctantly have to agree with you. Benson (Video above) was the closest to a "seer" or "seeing" years ahead. However, there have been affirmations and growth objectives, for example:

1. More Temples (growth)

2. Family Proclamation (affirmations)

3. Moral, Ethical & Spiritual Conduct (affirmations)

4. Back to Basics (Affirmation, new manual)

I have some theories on why this is but I cannot discuss them here without risking being misinterpreted. There is a high level of risk when it comes to prophecy or being a seer or revelator especially if you "see" something that's going to happen in the future and it doesn't come to fruition, or if you prophesy and it doesn't happen.

Focusing on generic, generally accepted moral and ethical values is safer and wiser. You can always say the same things over and over and explain it away because the people don't obey the basics. You can literally do this for generations without incurring the risks associated with prophecy. This is a tough one when you're getting your TR because you're asked if your support the leaders as Prophet(S), Seer(S) and Revelator(S). If you answer "No, I don't because I don't know what's been revealed, seen or prophesied lately..." you can be deemed to be an apostate or lacking in faith, although,as far as I can analyze it, that's a perfectly "honest" answer if you're to be 100% honest.

I usually answer that question "yes" not based on fact but on potential and faith. For example, all 15 have the potential to prophesy, see and reveal. It's not up to me to decide what or when they do that. The fact I have nothing to base the yes answer on doesn't invalidate their callings or capacities. Using this logic, I can say yes all the time based on potential and belief but not on facts. I have no problem with E.T. Benson being a seer because I have a video in front of me that shows a man predicting - not just describing - the future with accuracy.

If there is no prophesying, seeing or revealing going on, then you can assume that the Lord is not revealing anything new. No continuing revelation. Or, revelation is only for the present in order to deal with the affairs, issues and challenges of the present. You can look at this subject from many different angles.

[Ceeboo]

If there is no prophesying, seeing or revealing going on, then you can assume that the Lord is not revealing anything new.

Hi 0-Brother,

As one of the non LDS here who has always been so very puzzled by this ( with great respect offered ) do you see any other possibility at all for this. Or is this the only one on the table.

Peace,

Ceeboo

[Deborah]

If there is no prophesying, seeing or revealing going on, then you can assume that the Lord is not revealing anything new. No continuing revelation. Or, revelation is only for the present in order to deal with the affairs, issues and challenges of the present. You can look at this subject from many different angles.

Or it's on-going but is being relayed to the ecclesiastical leaders (ie Stake Presidents) to prepare their people or it's being relayed to the general membership in the form of Conference talks which warn us about debt and to get our spiritual lives in order, etc.

[O-Brother]

Hi 0-Brother,

As one of the non LDS here who has always been so very puzzled by this ( with great respect offered ) do you see any other possibility at all for this. Or is this the only one on the table.

Peace,

Ceeboo

[O-Brother]

Here comes a long winded explanation. Just kidding. I'm a convert to Mormonism. Well, honestly, I don't know. Prophets prophesy. Seers foretell. Revelators reveal. How, what and when is the million dollar question. Hopefully within their lifetime so there is action to go with the titles. By definition...

SEER:

1. a person who sees; observer.

2. a person who prophesies future events; prophet: Industry seers predicted higher profits.

3. a person endowed with profound moral and spiritual insight or knowledge; a wise person or sage who possesses intuitive powers.

4. a person who is reputed to have special powers of divination, as a crystal gazer or palmist.

I would say that we fall more in line with #3 right now and not #2 or #4

Not sure why.

[O-Brother]

Or it's on-going but is being relayed to the ecclesiastical leaders (ie Stake Presidents) to prepare their people or it's being relayed to the general membership in the form of Conference talks which warn us about debt and to get our spiritual lives in order, etc.

That's called counsel, not prophecy, revelation of seeing into the future. You don't need to be LDS to know about debt, health and other issues. Other religions have been warning their flocks about debt, living within their means, etc. In fact, I got the Watch Tower Magazine the other day with similar advice. A JW friend sent it to me.

[Ceeboo]

Here comes a long winded explanation. Just kidding. I'm a convert to Mormonism. Well, honestly, I don't know. Prophets prophesy. Seers foretell. Revelators reveal. How, what and when is the million dollar question. Hopefully within their lifetime so there is action to go with the titles. By definition...

SEER:

1. a person who sees; observer.

2. a person who prophesies future events; prophet: Industry seers predicted higher profits.

3. a person endowed with profound moral and spiritual insight or knowledge; a wise person or sage who possesses intuitive powers.

4. a person who is reputed to have special powers of divination, as a crystal gazer or palmist.

I would say that we fall more in line with #3 right now and not #2 or #4

Not sure why.

Hi again Bro,

Thanks for the gracious reply.

To be clear,

I was NOT judging nor putting you on the spot ( Hope you didn't feel I was )

Obvioulsy ( being Catholic ) I do not share the same beliefs as you but this is one of the most puzzling things to me as an " outside " observer.

Considering the 3 plus years I have " shared " with many many beutiful LDS folks, I remain completly puzzled on this. ( Perhaps I will never REALLY get it directly because I do not " believe ")

Thanks again for the kind manner you replied.

Peace,

Ceeboo