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"Remnants of Pre-Official Declaration 2 Theology in Gospel Principles"


cinepro

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I, for one, don't believe the idea that we have specific talents that were "developed" in the pre-existence, if only because talents tend to be very culture-specific, and even more family-specific. So the odds of a pre-existent talent being available in the era and culture of a specific person are absurdly small.

I think you are mistaken, but rather than responding, I would prefer to see you start a new thread.

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I think you are mistaken, but rather than responding, I would prefer to see you start a new thread.

Well, the manual says this:

[God] has chosen the time and place for each of us to be born so we can learn the lessons we personally need and do the most good with our individual talents and personalities.

So, the Church definitely teaches that our talents are reflected in the place and time of our birth. But I don't buy it.

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So, the Church definitely teaches that our talents are reflected in the place and time of our birth. But I don't buy it.

I believe it wholeheartedly. Undoubtably we are placed where we can make best use of our talents and where our personality will work best.

The problem comes when someone tries to look at a person's place of birth and family and determine whether they showed "more merit" in the pre-existence.

We simply aren't equipped to make this determination.

We cannot determine that someone born in Utah to a rich LDS family was more valiant than someone born in China to a poor Confucian family.

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I believe it wholeheartedly. Undoubtably we are placed where we can make best use of our talents and where our personality will work best.

The problem comes when someone tries to look at a person's place of birth and family and determine whether they showed "more merit" in the pre-existence.

We simply aren't equipped to make this determination.

We cannot determine that someone born in Utah to a rich LDS family was more less valiant than someone born in China to a poor Confucian family.

Fixed that for you. :P

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If by "talents" one really means "traits that support the development of certain talents", I see no reason to doubt that those possibly eternal aspects of us were developing in the pre-existence just as they are developing now through the opportunities the Lord has given us and will hopefully continue to develop in the future...that is part of what eternal progression means to me at least.

I don't see someone who is a great ballplayer now spending much time at the hoops in the pre-existence though.

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I don't see someone who is a great ballplayer now spending much time at the hoops in the pre-existence though.

I like to think that I spent a majority of my time playing video games before coming here.

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>So, the Church definitely teaches that our talents are reflected in the place and time of our birth. But I don't buy it.

I can see some real philisophical problems with the idea. One of the big issues is that it makes God culpable in whatever evil a person might be born into. It also might tend to make God a respector of persons by position of birth (enhancing or suppressing possibilities of growth). While most of us had decent childhoods, there are some real issues when children are born in horrible circumstances.

I guess I'm more a believer in fate than some of the other members.

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>So, the Church definitely teaches that our talents are reflected in the place and time of our birth. But I don't buy it.

I too have trouble with this teaching. I'm not even sure how to cash it out. Does it entail that each person has, at birth, certain personality traits that would get expressed in any environment? Does it mean that we had certain personality traits in the pre-existence and in order to get them expressed we are born into certain environments that will facilitate their expression? Is it a mixture of those two ideas? Or, is the idea more crude than that? Is it just that we're born in certain circumstances as a reward for good pre-existence behavior? Or, are we born in certain circumstances because it's only in those circumstances we will be able to fill our personality gaps?

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But our life circumstances are designed to see if we will do whatsoever the Lord our God will command us to do.

Maybe that's true, I don't know. It just seems to me that God could still see whether we do what he wants us to do even if our life circumstances are not designed. But, again, I'm not claiming to have a specific view on this matter. I'm just not sure what's even being taught.

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So a non-believer doesn't believe something. Im having a hard time understanding why I should be surprised at that.

I have no problem believing we developed talents in the pre mortal life. You think we were just sitting around doing nothing? As long as we were doing something we would clearly be learning some sort of skills or talents.

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Our circumstances in this life are neither a reward nor a punishment for our life in the pre-existence. They are instead what we need to experience, based on what we developed in the pre-existence, and in some cases possibly what others around us need to experience as well.

Opportunity, not consequence.

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I don't believe talents developed are as limited in scope as the OP suggests. The applicability would of course vary.

A storyteller of his tribe or the modern novelist.

A Greek logician in one era and a programmer in another.

A priest now or a shaman then.

A scammer now or a pirate then.

A CEO now or a successful knight of Rome.

A famous musician now or a religious music leader.

A PAC leader or a demagogue then.

A professor in academia or a sage.

A famous writer about a vampire and the boring girl he loves or a village idiot.

The permutations are endless.

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Brade:

I don't believe this life is a reward or punishment for anything we did in the Premortal realm. But our life circumstances are designed to see if we will do whatsoever the Lord our God will command us to do.

Punishment doesn't make sense because it's not effective for humans unless we know why it is happening and/or it is directly tied to our behaviour...which it can't be for the preexistence due to the "veil" that exists.

I personally think any reward or punishment due to our behaviour then also occurred then as any good parent would manage and this stage is simply the next one where there may be consequences for our behaviour in the past, but only due to our state of preparation, much like happens when one moves on up to college--our past successes or failures may reflect what college we get accepted in, but our professors there don't reward or punish us according to our past behaviour, but how we are applying what we've acquired in the past due to that behaviour as well as what we've learned in the here and now.

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Maybe that's true, I don't know. It just seems to me that God could still see whether we do what he wants us to do even if our life circumstances are not designed.

But we are not isolated from our actions, we are changed by them so that if God judged us by what we would do and then rewarded us accordingly, we would not be the individuals who were prepared for those rewards or punishments.

It would be like giving a college degree to a first grader based on an IQ test....he may have the potential, but the college degree is useless to him because he has nothing that college degree is supposed to imply (no skills, no training, no knowledge etc.).

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Video games are a cheap imitation of the games the gods play. Don't sell yourself short. :P

I still get to use the power glove, though, right?

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I love the power glove.....it's sooo bad.

Yet, still not as bad as the U-Force.

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(SMACK!)

I told you we never speak of that again!!!!

180px-Wizard1989.jpg

I love the power glove.....it's sooo bad.

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