volgadon Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 My belief isn't a requirement.And just to show you how unbiblical your belief is, here are the very words of the Saviour himself.John 3. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. Mark 16.16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Luke 8.12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. John 8. 24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
Zakuska Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 He said: "Did God really say..." thus tempting Eve to doubt God's word. She doubted God's word and he got her right there. Now we all must die. CFR. There is no doubt in Eves voice She knew exactly what God said. She even added to his words with her little Embelishment. "Neither shall ye touch it least yea die".God is telling us what Satan said. If Satan said it and it didn't come from the mouth of God, it would be a lie. You should know better.You don't understand what I mean. Without trying to offend you, perhaps this is a discussion beyond your comprehension.On the contrary I understand exactly what you are saying and vehemently disagree. Im pointing out the inconsistancies in what you are saying and you are so blind to the truth you cant see the forest for the tree. PS. You earlier claimed God "Penned every word in the Bible", now you're back peddling?!
Echo Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 And just to show you how unbiblical your belief is, here are the very words of the Saviour himself.John 3.14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. Mark 16.16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Luke 8.12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. John 8.24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.My belief isn't a requirement to be forgiven because I was forgiven when Jesus said: "It is finished" You have been forgiven too! Believe it!
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 My apologies if you think I am ignoring anything. I am not ignoring anything, I simply can't respond to everything although I am trying my best to cover as much as I can. It is one person(me) with much less time to post than 4 or 5 or 6 or more people who spend all their day posting faster than I can respond to just one post. I have to pick and choose. Take it or leave it. Sometimes your scriptures that you feel I am ignoring, I leave because its just too complicated for you to understand at this point. At some point in the future we can cover it after other understandings are in place and I feel you might be able to grasp what I am saying. Besides, the conversations are all over the place and are going in too many directions. I don't think we need to cover everything all at once. It's too much information for anyone to grasp. These things can be spread out over time.Yes, using the text from the parables is a difficult thing I surely am not able to comprehened them at this time. So you can't tell me what the sheep did that the goats didnt do?? It really is a simple request. Useing the text from Matt. 25 (and only Matt 25) I would really like for you to respond. I am not interested in your proof text examples of Paul.
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 My belief isn't a requirement to be forgiven because I was forgiven when Jesus said: "It is finished" You have been forgiven too! Believe it!Thank goodness belief isn't required, per you. I don't have to believe it. OR do I??
Echo Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 CFR. Genesis 3:1 ""Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?" There is no doubt in Eves voice She knew exactly what God said. She even added to his words with her little Embelishment. "Neither shall ye touch it least yea die". She added to his word because Satan's poison of tempting her to doubt God's word was working. We have this problem within the LDS beliefs. If the Bible is only correct as far as it is translated correctly, or if only a portion of it is God's word, then this is the temptation to doubt God's word. For which, now the BOM comes in as a addition to God's word just as Eve added to God's word.On the contrary I understand exactly what you are saying and vehemently disagree. Im pointing out the inconsistancies in what you are saying and you are so blind to the truth you cant see the forest for the tree. PS. You earlier claimed God "Penned every word in the Bible", now you're back peddling?!God's word testifies of the truth. When God says, in his word, that Satan said: "You will not surely die" then we know God is revealling the truth of what Satan truly said. Not that what Satan said is truth in and of itself for God also reveals to us in his word that there is no truth in Satan.Now if we look at the Bible the way you believe it where the whole Bible is not God's word, then you can't know whether or not Satan actually said that. For he is a liar. He wouldn't tell you what he said.
Zakuska Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 My belief isn't a requirement to be forgiven because I was forgiven when Jesus said: "It is finished" You have been forgiven too! Believe it!Another unbiblical assersion. See this is what happens when you cobble together Bible verses to meet your preconceived notions. Sins you have commited since your "Magical Altar Call" are layed bare before a vengeful God.Heb 10 16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; 17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. 18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. 19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; 21 And having an high priest over the house of God; 22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;) 24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: 25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28 He that despised Moses
volgadon Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 My belief isn't a requirement to be forgiven because I was forgiven when Jesus said: "It is finished"Chapter and verse please, and when you are done explain how you are exempt from the very clear words of christ. You have been forgiven too! Believe it!I do believe it, but it is conditional upon repentance.
volgadon Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 now the BOM comes in as a addition to God's wordAre you saying that the Bible contains ALL of God's word?
Zakuska Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 Genesis 3:1 ""Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?"I know the verse. I was not asking for it. I was asking for where Eve showed any incling of a doubt on what God had said.She added to his word because Satan's poison of tempting her to doubt God's word was working.And here I thought she (as women often do, IME) was a Drama queen. Silly me. Who knew Eve was Mrs. Lucifer Incarnate?!We have this problem within the LDS beliefs. If the Bible is only correct as far as it is translated correctly, or if only a portion of it is God's word, then this is the temptation to doubt God's word. For which, now the BOM comes in as a addition to God's word just as Eve added to God's word.And here I thought God could add to or take away from his own words any time he felt like it? Silly me?!God's word testifies of the truth. When God says, in his word, that Satan said: "You will not surely die" then we know God is revealling the truth of what Satan truly said. Not that what Satan said is truth in and of itself for God also reveals to us in his word that there is no truth in Satan.And yet you said God penned Satans word thus God is the one speaking through Satan.Now if we look at the Bible the way you believe it where the whole Bible is not God's word, then you can't know whether or not Satan actually said that. For he is a liar. He wouldn't tell you what he said.So lets see. The Johanine Comma which was added by scribes determined to prove the trinity thousands of years after the fact magically becomes "Gods word" just because it Luckily finds itself between the two covers of "Ta Biblia" (aka the Divine Library)? Sorry, but somethings is very wrong with this picture!
Echo Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 Chapter and verse please, John 19:30 and when you are done explain how you are exempt from the very clear words of christ. Which words?I do believe it, but it is conditional upon repentance.You were forgiven before you repented. Now repent.
Echo Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 Another unbiblical assersion. See this is what happens when you cobble together Bible verses to meet your preconceived notions. Sins you have commited since your "Magical Altar Call" are layed bare before a vengeful God.Heb 10 16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; 17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. 18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. 19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; 21 And having an high priest over the house of God; 22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;) 24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: 25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28 He that despised Moses
Echo Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 Are you saying that the Bible contains ALL of God's word?Yes, the Bible contains all of God's word. Any Word outside of the Bible is not God's word. (i.e. BOM, the Quran etc.)
volgadon Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 Yes, the Bible contains all of God's word. Any Word outside of the Bible is not God's word. (i.e. BOM, the Quran etc.)Are you saying that the Bible contains every single thing God said?
Echo Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 And yet you said God penned Satans word thus God is the one speaking through Satan. You should go back and read what I said. This isn't what I said or meant.
volgadon Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 John 19:30Must have missed that. There is not a word about forgiveness or repentance in that verse. Please try again. Which words?John 3.14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. Mark 16.16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Luke 8.12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. John 8.24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.You were forgiven before you repented.You have yet to show me where it says that.Now repent.Who are you to insist that I repent?
Echo Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 Are you saying that the Bible contains every single thing God said?The Bible contains every single thing God said that he wants us to know for life and for salvation. Jesus said many things beyond what we have written in our bible. Since those words aren't in our Bible, God felt they weren't nessesary.
Zakuska Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 I am unsure of the point you are trying to make. Could you clarify? ThanksYou said that your sins commited after you came to know the truth are already remitted.Hebrews 10:26-31 says sins you commit as a beleive Christs Blood does not touch. There is no more Sacrifice for them. They remain an oppen account between you and God.26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28 He that despised Moses
volgadon Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 The Bible contains every single thing God said that he wants us to know for life and for salvation. Jesus said many things beyond what we have written in our bible. Since those words aren't in our Bible, God felt they weren't nessesary.Tsk, tsk, tsk. No circular reasoning, please.Where does it say that God's word is ONLY what he places in the book (or rather, collection of books) known as the Bible?
Zakuska Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 Tsk, tsk, tsk. No circular reasoning, please.Where does it say that God's word is ONLY what he places in the book (or rather, collection of books) known as the Bible?Especially since it was a Council of MEN who decided which books were in and which were out. Talking about relying on the Arm of FLESH!?
Echo Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 You said that your sins commited after you came to know the truth are already remitted.Hebrews 10:26-31 says sins you commit as a beleive Christs Blood does not touch. There is no more Sacrifice for them. They remain an oppen account between you and God.26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28 He that despised Moses
Zakuska Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 Sorry, but I still can't understand what you mean. You said: "says sins you commit as a believe Christ's Blood does not touch" Doesn't make sense. Maybe I have been sitting at my computer too long. Also, CFR where I said what you say I saidSure thing... Volgadon had said:And just to show you how unbiblical your belief is, here are the very words of the Saviour himself.John 3.14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. Mark 16.16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Luke 8.12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. John 8.24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.To which you responded:My belief isn't a requirement to be forgiven because I was forgiven when Jesus said: "It is finished" You have been forgiven too! Believe it!To which I added the verses in Hebrews 10 which contradicts what you said. If Jesus had already Forgiven your sin when he declared "it finished" as you asserted, then God would not hold the sins of a beleiver against him yet he does. Even more so than a none-beleiver.
Echo Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 You have to show me were it says that Romans 5:10 "For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!"Colossians 1:22 "But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation
Zakuska Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 Romans 5:10 "For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!"Colossians 1:22 "But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation
volgadon Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 Romans 5:10 "For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!"Colossians 1:22 "But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation
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