Nevo Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 I'm guessing you also read the links provided by moi?Unfortunately neither link addresses the subject of the thread. But they're good articles
selek Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 Again I ask - you consider that information to be "evidence"? I realize you live in the U.K., but I can only hope you never serve on a jury or anything like unto it.Given the sources she's chosen to prioritize (anything antagonistic to the Church and supportive of the tenuous Comoros myth) and her earlier credulity, I think it's fairly obvious what Mary's agenda and bias are, don't you?
Zakuska Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 Heres a History of the island...http://www.worldstatesmen.org/Comoros.htmlThe Islands where discovered by the Portugues in 1503. The "Grande Comoro" island which is where the City of Moroni is... was originally named Ngazidja. And the City is actually spelled... Muruni in Arabic... it was founded by an Arabian prince. Moroni or should i say... Muruni didn't become the capitol until 1958.http://www.freebase.com/view/en/moroni_comoros
LifeOnaPlate Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 Unfortunately neither link addresses the subject of the thread. But they're good articles Nevo, you're smarter than that. If you don't think either of those articles pertain to your Huggins link I don't know what to say other than "read again," my friendly friend.Heres a History of the island...http://www.worldstatesmen.org/Comoros.htmlIt was discovered by the Portugues in 1503.Moroni Didn't become the capitol until 1958.http://www.freebase.com/view/en/moroni_comorosSo Moroni is a transliteration from another language? I wonder what it was being called back in the day.
ttribe Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 Given the sources she's chosen to prioritize (anything antagonistic to the Church and supportive of the tenuous Comoros myth) and her earlier credulity, I think it's fairly obvious what Mary's agenda and bias are, don't you?Of course...I am not yet jaded enough to overcome my natural inclination to be surprised at ridiculous non sequitors...give me time sir.
Eguzkitanedan Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 Looks like this idiot believes this stupid crock of a theory as well.
Eguzkitanedan Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 Nevo, you're smarter than that. If you don't think either of those articles pertain to your Huggins link I don't know what to say other than "read again," my friendly friend.So Moroni is a transliteration from another language? I wonder what it was being called back in the day.It is Muruni in Arabic, but the link I gave above to the idiot's site says it's from "moro" fire and "ni" at the place of, in an Arabic-Swahili creole.
ttribe Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 Looks like this idiot believes this stupid crock of a theory as well.Apparently, there is no limit to the lengths one will reach to "grasp at straws".
Zakuska Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 Nevo, you're smarter than that. If you don't think either of those articles pertain to your Huggins link I don't know what to say other than "read again," my friendly friend.So Moroni is a transliteration from another language? I wonder what it was being called back in the day.According to these sites...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/index.html?curid=290711http://www.freebase.com/view/en/moroni_comorosIts Arabic.... Muruni.
wenglund Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 To sum up, we can all agree that this is a possible source for the two proper names, right?Yes...just as we can all agree that a pre-2006 gazetteer is a possible source for the two proper names in Brady's book on Martha Washington. Thanks, -Wade Englund-
Zakuska Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 Check out some of the other city names...http://comores-online.com/mwezinet/visites/ngazidja.htmNtsaoueniChomoniKauraniMvouniChindiniBambadjiniIkoniBoboniSinganiMitsamiouliHeres a Map of Moroni... er... Murunihttp://comores-online.com/mwezinet/visites/moroni.htm
Zakuska Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 Heres more on the settlement history...http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Comoros#encyclopediaMoroni seems to be a Swahili african word.
No Touch Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 No Touch,Did you read Nevo's link.It was quite interesting..MaryConsidering that no one here can link me to something written on this coincidence that is more than 6 years old, no it's not that interesting. Again, if there was anything to this "theory", then it would've been revealed 150+ years ago. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that I don't think anyone can even find a published Captain Kidd story from that era that mentions the name Moroni, and the reason I say it because IF this theory was true (and I stress if because I do not believe it) then I would find it inconceivable that there wasn't AT LEAST one other person who read those stories and who came into contact with the Book of Mormon, and who would've mentioned this coincidence to any of the very interested opponents of Joseph Smith. I mean for crying out loud, just compare it to the Solomon Spaulding issue - because it wasn't any later than the 1830s or 1840s when Anti-Mormons went and acquired that obscure single copy of that story for the purpose of disproving the BoM. I have NO DOUBT that if there was anyone who recognized the name Moroni from any other readily available text that it would have come up very quickly.
Zakuska Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 This is intresting...The Comoros Islands were very likely inhabited by Malayo-Polynesian sailors as early as the sixth century AD. Arabs and Africans were later arrivals.I wonder where Hagoth and co. sailed to?http://www.africatravelling.net/comoros/mo...oni_history.htmIt seems more likely that some one from the BOM tried to make it back to egypt.
Zakuska Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 We learn here that...IconiIconi, the oldest settlement on Grande Comore, was the original capital of the island and the seat of the Sultan of Bambao. Between the 16th and 19th centuries, Iconi was damaged by wave after wave of Malagasy pirates, and in 1978, was the site of the tragic massacre of the Muslim faithful by Ali Soilih's gangs of youthful thugs. Still, many fine old buildings remain and it's worth a couple of hours of exploration. It lies just three miles (five km) south of Moroni and can be reached on foot, by share taxi (CF200), or taxi-brousse....Meanwhile, Portuguese sailors landed on the Comoros in the early 1500's. The French claimed discovery in 1530, and the British staked their claim in 1554. In the 17th century, pirates from both Madagascar and Europe lurked in the Comoros and preyed on vessels plying the East India routes. Out of this turbulent period emerged more stories that strengthened the identity of the people who had become Comorians.One such tale comes from Iconi, a coastal village of Ngazidja, in the 17th century. There, a powerful sultan continually had to defend his people against Malagasy pirates who raided the village and enslaved its people. In one apocalyptic raid, the pirates massacred the defenders and pursued the women, who hid among the rocks atop a cliff above the sea. As their attackers approached and capture appeared inevitable, the women chose death over slavery and leapt into the sea. Today, the defeated sultan's modest palace—really a large house—stands weather-beaten and crumbling in the center of Iconi, now a quiet fishing hamlet.Iconi is at least as old as the 17th Century. So I wonder how old Muruni is?And here is the Ultimate nail in the Coffin for the BOM...!!!Islamic culture, mixed with East African influences, is as natural to daily life in the Comoros today as the sea breezes that first brought Islam to these shores. Early Arab traders, who by the 10th century regularly plied the waters off Zanj, or East Africa, named the Comoro Islands qumr, a name derived from qamar, or moon. Initially, this name was applied to Madagascar, then to the four Comoro Islands as a group.The first Arab settlers, tradition has it, arrived on Qanbalu—today's Ngazidja (called Grande Comore by the French)— shortly after the death of the king and prophet Solomon, probably coming from the Hadhramaut region of southern Arabia. They lived with inhabitants of Malay-Indonesian origin as well as Bantu-speaking and Swahili-speaking East Africans. In 632, upon hearing of Islam, the Arab islanders are said to have dispatched an emissary, the navigator Said Muhammad, to Makkah—but by the time he arrived there, the Prophet Muhammad had died. Nonetheless, after a stay in Makkah, Said Muhammad returned to Qanbalu and led the gradual conversion of his compatriots to Islam.Apparently... Moroni and Cumoros are both FRENCH transliterations of the Swahili/Arabic Names!I bid you adieu!The first Arab settlers, tradition has it, arrived on Qanbalu—today's Ngazidja (called Grande Comore by the French)— shortly after the death of the king and prophet Solomon, probably coming from the Hadhramaut region of southern Arabia. They lived with inhabitants of Malay-Indonesian origin as well as Bantu-speaking and Swahili-speaking East Africans. In 632, upon hearing of Islam, the Arab islanders are said to have dispatched an emissary, the navigator Said Muhammad, to Makkah—but by the time he arrived there, the Prophet Muhammad had died. Nonetheless, after a stay in Makkah, Said Muhammad returned to Qanbalu and led the gradual conversion of his compatriots to Islam.As trade expanded, sailors used the beautiful and exotic Comoros as a setting for myths and legends. In one of these, Solomon searches the world for his beloved, the Yemeni Queen of Saba. His search is in vain. He finds only her throne, and it is hidden in the hot crater of the Kartala volcano on Ngazidja.According to another myth, it is Solomon—whom God had given authority over the jinn, or spirits—who is responsible for the appearance of the Comoros on earth: Jinn, created by God of smokeless flame, are capable of heavy labor, and Solomon had put them to work in his mines. One day, he ordered a jinni to carry a precious ring to the Queen of Saba. On his way, the jinni dropped the ring, which formed a great circular inferno. This became the Kartala volcano which, in turn, gave fiery birth to Ngazidja.In 1154, Arab geographer al-Idrisi depicted the Comoros on a map with a text that told of trade with the Indian Ocean islands from as far east as Indonesia, including the Seychelles, the Maldives, Madagascar and the Comoros. In the 15th century, the famous Arab seafarer Ibn Majid drew the individual routes among these islands and the east African coastal ports of Mombasa, Zanzibar, Kilwa and Kitao.Beginning in 933, this sea trade led to one of the most important influences in Comorian history: the migration of the Shirazi Arabs from Persia and western Indian Ocean states. Seeking haven from religious persecution, they landed in Nzwani (called Anjouan by the French), the second-largest island of today's republic. They found its steep mountain terrain thinly inhabited by Africans, only a few of whom were Muslim, living under the authority of Muslim Arab chiefs called bejas. The Shirazis appear to have accepted this arrangement until the 12th century, when Shirazi fanis, or chiefs, began to grow in influence. In the mid-15th century, a second, greater influx of Shirazi immigrants reinforced the Islamic character of the Comoros.Well heres more source material we need to account for at DartMouth Library.http://www.comores-online.com/mwezinet/his...dsofthemoon.htm
selek Posted February 19, 2009 Posted February 19, 2009 We learn here that...And here is the Ultimate nail in the Coffin for the BOM...!!!Apparently... Moroni and Cumoros are both FRENCH transliterations of the Swahili/Arabic Names!I bid you adeu!http://www.comores-online.com/mwezinet/his...dsofthemoon.htmAh, the French- inventors of Mayonaisse.Where are Morning Star and Garden Girl?
Moon Quaker Posted February 19, 2009 Posted February 19, 2009 I remember playing the original "Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego?" computer game as a kid. One of the locations that came up often was Moroni. Being a sheltered little Mormon, I didn't think much of it (i.e., living in Utah, I knew of the cities Lehi and Nephi; as far as I was concerned, Moroni was just another.)
LifeOnaPlate Posted February 19, 2009 Posted February 19, 2009 Now that you're not so sheltered you've realized the devastating implications.
Aquilifer Posted February 19, 2009 Posted February 19, 2009 Apparently... Moroni and Cumoros are both FRENCH transliterations of the Swahili/Arabic Names!I bid you adieu!Please, I beg you.... Not that again!
selek Posted February 19, 2009 Posted February 19, 2009 Please, I beg you.... Not that again! You think that's bad?Wait'll certain UMW members discover the Mayo feud is on again!
Zakuska Posted February 19, 2009 Posted February 19, 2009 How about DNA? 86% from sub-Saharan Africahttp://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P3-786098131.html
Nevo Posted February 19, 2009 Posted February 19, 2009 Nevo, you're smarter than that. If you don't think either of those articles pertain to your Huggins link I don't know what to say other than "read again," my friendly friend.Life, my friend. The articles you linked challenged Huggins's thesis that Moroni was originally a treasure-guardian. They didn't address the issue under discussion: namely, the connection between the Comoros Islands, Captain Kidd, and Joseph Smith. But I suppose anyone who followed those links looking for more information on the subject already knows this. In any case, the articles are worth reading. Larry Morris is one of my favorite FARMS Review writers.
Eguzkitanedan Posted February 19, 2009 Posted February 19, 2009 Ah, the French- inventors of Mayonaisse.Mayonnaise was actually invented in Mao, Menorca in the Balearics--a Catalan speaking island under British, French, British, then Spanish rule.
Zakuska Posted February 19, 2009 Posted February 19, 2009 Mayonnaise was actually invented in Mao, Menorca in the Balearics--a Catalan speaking island under British, French, British, then Spanish rule.Mayotte used to be the Capitol when the french occupied the Islands.
Nevo Posted February 19, 2009 Posted February 19, 2009 Looks like this idiot believes this stupid crock of a theory as well.According to the link, Moroni means "at the place of fire." Salamanders are said to live in the fire. . . . Hmm.
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