The Capital of the Comoros Islands is?

[why me]

Of course it doesn't prove that Joseph knew of Comoros or of Moroni, but it does indicate that his family links to sea-faring, and indeed to privateering, went deep.

Mary

Yep, Mary is now enrolled in the Uncle Dale school of Hypotheticals. You are learning Mary from a master. Uncle Dale has a website dedicated to proving Sidney wrote the book of mormon but as of yet, he has not proved that he did. But he does have a wonderful imagination. As does this thread have imagination.

Now if only we had concrete proof that Jo Smith did make up those characters based on his seafaring imagination!

[why me]

Right, Comoros/Moroni would be a coincidence much greater in magnitude than that of NHM, because NHM is not a coincidence at all.

Actually, NHM is on the direct route that Lehi took according to the book of mormon,likewise for the possible discovery for bountiful. However, the captain kidd story is based on hypotheticals and a lot of couldas. Big difference.

[why me]

It 'still' doesn't prove anything.

Mary

And sadly, it never will prove anything. Poor dale has not proven that Sidney had written the book of mormon and et, he has spent much time trying to do so.

But what the mormons do have are 11 sworn testimonies by witnesses that claimed that they actually saw the plates that Joseph claimed lay hidden until the latter days. I suppose that these people coulda lied. But it hasn't been proven. Isn't it strange mary that critics like yourself have a difficult time believing these witnesses or can just ignore them? I can't. But I do keep an open mind about it. Also, if Joseph knew the tales of captain kidd most likely his parents knew the tales too and would have recognized the similarities of names. But it seems that no one in the smith family questioned Joseph about it or knew aobut it. How could Lucy allow her son to suffer so much for a fraud? Quite amazing if it were a fraud and she knew it, like her husband did since he was one of the witnesses.

[Abulafia]

Now if only we had concrete proof that Jo Smith did make up those characters based on his seafaring imagination!

I think that perhaps Joseph got his ideas from a variety of sources Why Me.

The more digging on Stephen Mack that I have done the more interesting it becomes. For instance it may have been through Stephen that Joseph obtained a copy, or at least heard about the 'Detroit Manuscript'....that whole thing brings up another rabbit hole that concerns Tironian and early Irish script and Secret Writing, that ties in nicely with the Anthon Transcript...

The things you come across, just by wondering where Joseph might have got the names Moroni and Comora....(sigh).... (see R. B. Stout's - A Singular Discovery)

Mary

[lostindc]

I think that perhaps Joseph got his ideas from a variety of sources Why Me.

The more digging on Stephen Mack that I have done the more interesting it becomes. For instance it may have been through Stephen that Joseph obtained a copy, or at least heard about the 'Detroit Manuscript'....that whole thing brings up another rabbit hole that concerns Tironian and early Irish script and Secret Writing, that ties in nicely with the Anthon Transcript...

The things you learn, just by wondering where Joseph might have got the names Moroni and Comora....(sigh).... (see R. B. Stout's - A Singular Discovery)

Mary

The biggest problem with this thread is that Dale would post such garbage literature on his site. I thought he was better than that...

[Abulafia]

The biggest problem with this thread is that Dale would post such garbage literature on his site. I thought he was better than that...

lost in dc, Dale, as far as I can tell, has NEVER indicated that he believes that Joseph Smith got the terms Moroni and Comora from the Comoros Islands. He has far bigger fish to fry.. (in my opinion).

Mary

[thesometimesaint]

Abulafia:

You're stretching now.

[lostindc]

lost in dc, Dale, as far as I can tell, has NEVER indicated that he believes that Joseph Smith got the terms Moroni and Comora from the Comoros Islands. He has far bigger fish to fry.. (in my opinion).

Mary

i am speaking of the 'Detroit Manuscript' or whatever you had linked from one of his sites.

[Abulafia]

Abulafia:You're stretching now.

Stretching in terms of my comments to lostindc about Uncle Dale's website Sometimesaint? I don't think the matter of Comoras and Moroni concerns him at all. His specific interest (asides from amassing an incredible collection of early books and newspaper articles relating to the early mormons) is in the Spalding link to the Book of Mormon?

Mary

i am speaking of the 'Detroit Manuscript' or whatever you had linked from one of his sites.

Oh I see. Have you read Stout's article? Have the apologists responded to it at all? Again, it's completely new to me..

Mary

[Bennion Curio]

I don't post much, but this has been a really good thread. It has been educational and fun to read(what more could you ask!) Abulafia(Mary), you've caused a lot of good investigation to occur through your questions and research.

Thanks for keeping a calm and rational discussion going, even though some don't like your investigation and research and have taken the low road and tried to discourage you personally.

It seems like you sparked a curiosity fire they couldn't put out, which is why they went personal, and why the thread has attracted the board's heavy muscle. I'm guessing it's not the last you will hear from the board muscle on this thread.

[thesometimesaint]

Abulafia:

You are stretching with the Comoras/Muruni connection to Cumorah/Moroni. Any number of people can play your take away a couple of letters here, add a couple of letters there game, and come up with any connection they want.

Plus just because some one COULD have done something does not mean that they did.

[Abulafia]

Abulafia:

You are stretching with the Comoras/Muruni connection to Cumorah/Moroni. Any number of people can play your take away a couple of letters here, add a couple of letters there game, and come up with any connection they want.

Plus just because some one COULD have done something does not mean that they did.

I guess we'll never know, but you are probably right. Still, I've learned an awful lot about Joseph and his close relatives that I didn't know, and I have a better feel for the socio-economic background, the culture and the religious atmosphere that they came from.

For me, it's been worthwhile...

Mary

[Abulafia]

I wonder if this could be substantiated,

This same Stephen Mack was both a maternal uncle to Joseph Smith, Jr., and a cousin to the Book of Mormon's leading "witness," Oliver Cowdery.

http://solomonspalding.com/SRP/saga/saga02b.htm

Mary

[hagoth7]

Oh I see. Have you read Stout's article?

I have. More than once. Although such a discussion goes far behind the purposes of this thread.

Have the apologists responded to it at all?

I don't consider myself an apologist. But I have responded to his core claims in another forum.

(As I recall, it left a few critics swearing. So I'm guessing they didn't take kindly to my input.)

Of course Stout's interpretation or spin on what the evidence means differs considerably from my own. But that's a different matter, perhaps for another thread.

I'll certainly agree, however, that this has been a very interesting thread - on many levels.

[Abulafia]

Okay, I know this thread died a death, but the Kidd expert in the UK just got back to me, and his response was incredibly interesting.

Kidd's ties with the island are not shallow (Comoros), and this guy is currently investigating the idea that it was from the Comoros that Kidd sailed from on his return to America to seek justice after it came to light that he was now considered a pirate.

He spent some time in Stone Prison in Boston (he was not unfamiliar with the trips between New York and Boston prior to this) and it is not unfeasable that he divulged information whether correct or not in return for favours whilst incarcerated there. This may have contributed to the proliferation of rumours around buried treasure at home and abroad.

Mary

[Bernard Gui]

Okay, I know this thread died a death, but the Kidd expert in the UK just got back to me, and his response was incredibly interesting.

Kidd's ties with the island are not shallow (Comoros), and this guy is currently investigating the idea that it was from the Comoros that Kidd sailed from on his return to America to seek justice after it came to light that he was now considered a pirate.

He spent some time in Stone Prison in Boston (he was not unfamiliar with the trips between New York and Boston prior to this) and it is not unfeasable that he divulged information whether correct or not in return for favours whilst incarcerated there. This may have contributed to the proliferation of rumours around buried treasure at home and abroad.

If we had some ham, we could have ham and eggs, but we don't have any eggs.

Bernard

PS:

How about Rio Maroni in Surinam and Camoroa, Brazil....not too far from each other

Morona and Camara, Ecuador

Morontepeque and Camaro, El Salvador

Just coincidences? I don't think so!

[Abulafia]

If we had some ham, we could have ham and eggs, but we don't have any eggs.

Bernard

PS:

How about Rio Maroni in Surinam and Camoroa, Brazil....not too far from each other

Morona and Camara, Ecuador

Morontepeque and Camaro, El Salvador

Just coincidences? I don't think so!

Bernard, I love Ham and eggs...!! (with a few British chips thrown in)..

Yes, I know, it's a long shot, but here we have Moroni guarding a religious and spiritual treasure in the form of the gold plates buried at Comorah, and if it turns out that Kidd was telling the truth when he said (to the British Government at his trial) he had left/buried a hoard of about

[why me]

I think that perhaps Joseph got his ideas from a variety of sources Why Me.

The more digging on Stephen Mack that I have done the more interesting it becomes. For instance it may have been through Stephen that Joseph obtained a copy, or at least heard about the 'Detroit Manuscript'....that whole thing brings up another rabbit hole that concerns Tironian and early Irish script and Secret Writing, that ties in nicely with the Anthon Transcript...

The things you come across, just by wondering where Joseph might have got the names Moroni and Comora....(sigh).... (see R. B. Stout's - A Singular Discovery)

Mary

We need to remember the age timeline here. JS was not a man in his 30's or 40's when all this was going on. It seems to me that JS was rather young at the time of the book of mormon idea, possibly in his middle or even early teens, if the critics are serious about a fraud being thought up. How many sources can he possibly have obtained as such a young boy? Plus, the Smith farm was always in need of extra hands especially when the older brother died. Then, we need to put into play the money digging. All this takes time away. Now, JS was no Bryon or Shelley just hanging around listening to skylarks and writing poetry.

[why me]

Okay, I know this thread died a death, but the Kidd expert in the UK just got back to me, and his response was incredibly interesting.

Kidd's ties with the island are not shallow (Comoros), and this guy is currently investigating the idea that it was from the Comoros that Kidd sailed from on his return to America to seek justice after it came to light that he was now considered a pirate.

He spent some time in Stone Prison in Boston (he was not unfamiliar with the trips between New York and Boston prior to this) and it is not unfeasable that he divulged information whether correct or not in return for favours whilst incarcerated there. This may have contributed to the proliferation of rumours around buried treasure at home and abroad.

Mary

And so, what does this prove? You see, Mary, here we are again with the mays, couldas, wouldas and shouldas.

[why me]

Bernard, I love Ham and eggs...!! (with a few British chips thrown in)..

Yes, I know, it's a long shot,

Mary

I thought the English like sauage in the morning and beans and toast for dinner. Or chips wrapped in a newspaper?

Life is a longshot sometimes. Uncle Dale has been dealing in long shots for quite some time. But hey, who knows, a longshot can produce a winner sometimes but not in this case. Bernard just gave you a great reason why.