johnny Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 TeancumAs noted and we see once again, Johny is a dogmatic hack. I have explained this about three times here. Yet like a mindless parrot he just repeats his mantra and ignores my evidence.I repeat because this is what the Mormon church teaches.More evidence that Johny is a dogmatic hack.What does a person have to do to live with their heavenly Father ... I say grace and faith.But now I can simply state you are not being honest. Until you go back and prove what I showed you out of LDS Canon, which canon trumps when figuring out what IS LDS DOCTRINE you are essentially lying. What does your precious scripture apostolic tradition say about that?Below are the LDS teachings, please show me where I am "essentially lying" .Gospel Principles Chapter 36 "... each of us has been commanded to marry and have children ...." Gospel Principles Chapter 29 "The Lord commands us not to use wine ... tobacco ... coffee ..." Gospel Principles Chapter 32 "We have been given commandments ...the Law of Tithing ..." Gospel Principles Chapter 36 "If we obey the commandments of the Lord, our families will be together forever as husband, wife, and children."Gospel Principles Chapter 38 "Eternal Marriage Is Essential for Exaltation ... Exaltation is eternal life ..." Gospel Principles Chapter 46 "Those who inherit the highest degree of the celestial kingdom, who become gods, must also have been married for eternity in the temple. All who inherit the celestial kingdom will live with Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ forever." Gospel Principles Chapter 38 "Eternal marriage must be performed by proper authority in the temple ... Before we can go to the temple . . . We must be interviewed . . . asked questions like . . . Do you sustain the President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator? . . . Are you a full-tithe payer? . . . Do you keep the Word of Wisdom?" GUIDE TO THE SCRIPTURES Damnation - The state of being stopped in oneâ??s progress and denied access to the presence of God and his glory. Damnation exists in varying degrees. All who do not obtain the fulness of celestial exaltation will to some degree be limited in their progress and privileges, and they will be damned to that extent.
Jeff K. Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 TeancumMormonism is about works, if one does not obey the Mormon commandment of marriage then they are damned, they will not be called gods.No it isn't. In fact grace is huge for Mormons. We know we cannot be saved without the Atonement, the grace of God. Your ignorance of Mormons is deplorable. Hopefully you will be humble enough to learn from them, or perhaps you are siff necked like the House of Judah which rejected Christ. One imagines you would be shouting "crucify him" with the other pharisees, saducees, et al... all because you believe that there could be no new prophets... ... the more things change the more they are the same.
johnny Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 Jeff K.Your kidding right? Man made creeds from a council brought together by a political power that had no interest in religion but intense interest in unification in which the political power declared some creeds to be false and others true, and not one prophet to speak with god among them.Please provide the evidence that creeds are "an abomination" in God's sight ...
johnny Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 TeancumYou are a liar. A liar plain and simple. I know LDS doctrine better than you do. If this is the fruit of your faith I will pass. Have a lovely day you dogmatic hack.Waiting you for you back up your empty words ...
Jeff K. Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 TeancumWaiting you for you back up your empty words ...Johnny you really have backed up any of yours and you have been consistently wrong.Prove to us the Nicene Creeds (note the "s" which is for councils, not number of creeds) and later creeds were put in place by God when no prophet was in attendence to state as much.....
Jeff K. Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 Jeff K.Please provide the evidence that creeds are "an abomination" in God's sight ...Please show they are Gods word when no prophet was in attendence. Who spoke for God? Constantine? And why aren't you Greek Orthodox if you believe the creeds. Or are you a heretic that has rejected the true root of christianity in favor of someone who cried "lo here" who was neither prophet or representative of God beyond the teachings of man?Your position is so tenuous and contradictory it almost laughable.
johnny Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 Jeff K.No it isn't. In fact grace is huge for Mormons. We know we cannot be saved without the Atonement, the grace of God.Do you have to keep Mormon commandments of marriage and tithing to be gods and live with our heavenly father?Your ignorance of Mormons is deplorable.Grace and peace to you ...
Flyonthewall Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 TeancumMormonism is about works, if one does not obey the Mormon God's commandment of marriage then they are damned, they will not be called gods.You are trying to construct a false dichotomy. The "Saved/Damned" concept that you try to overlay on LDS doctirnes do not fit. "Damned" in TC view would coincide with Outer Darkness as a permanent placement. Obvioulsly, it has been explained over and over again, that though "damnation" in the LDS world is a cessation of progress, one can be "saved" to a kingdom of glory and still be consider "dammed"(no 'n') in their progress.All those who inherit a kingdom of glory, are considered "saved" from the second death/outer darkness. I understand this is an alien concept for you, but if you are not going to understand it, at least stop trying to describe it as something it is not.And as to mormonism being about works, well Christianity is about works too. It's all right there in the bible..."Let your light so shine...", "be ye doers of the word...", "faith without works is dead...", etc. etc.
Teancum Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 TeancumI repeat because this is what the Mormon church teaches.What does a person have to do to live with their heavenly Father ... I say grace and faith.Below are the LDS teachings, please show me where I am "essentially lying" .Gospel Principles Chapter 36 "... each of us has been commanded to marry and have children ...." Gospel Principles Chapter 29 "The Lord commands us not to use wine ... tobacco ... coffee ..." Gospel Principles Chapter 32 "We have been given commandments ...the Law of Tithing ..." Gospel Principles Chapter 36 "If we obey the commandments of the Lord, our families will be together forever as husband, wife, and children."Gospel Principles Chapter 38 "Eternal Marriage Is Essential for Exaltation ... Exaltation is eternal life ..." Gospel Principles Chapter 46 "Those who inherit the highest degree of the celestial kingdom, who become gods, must also have been married for eternity in the temple. All who inherit the celestial kingdom will live with Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ forever." Gospel Principles Chapter 38 "Eternal marriage must be performed by proper authority in the temple ... Before we can go to the temple . . . We must be interviewed . . . asked questions like . . . Do you sustain the President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator? . . . Are you a full-tithe payer? . . . Do you keep the Word of Wisdom?" GUIDE TO THE SCRIPTURES Damnation - The state of being stopped in oneâ??s progress and denied access to the presence of God and his glory. Damnation exists in varying degrees. All who do not obtain the fulness of celestial exaltation will to some degree be limited in their progress and privileges, and they will be damned to that extent.Deal with the passages of LDS canon and my explanations. Go through DC 20:1-32 first and my commentary about it. Other wise I have no desire to discuss it with you.
johnny Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 Jeff K.Johnny you really have backed up any of yours and you have been consistently wrong.Where have I been consistently wrong ...Prove to us the Nicene Creeds (note the "s" which is for councils, not number of creeds) and later creeds were put in place by God when no prophet was in attendence to state as much.....The bottom line is that creeds are totally consistent with the inspired word of God
johnny Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 TeancumDeal with the passages of LDS canon and my explanations. Go through DC 20:1-32 first and my commentary about it. Other wise I have no desire to discuss it with you.Have a nice day then ...
Luigi Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 LuigiLike I said earlier God is the one who knows .... be saved is about grace.So are you saved? If so, how do you know?
johnny Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 LuigiSo are you saved? If so, how do you know?Like I have said early ... only God knows ... it is about his grace and his mercy.
ERayR Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 TeancumI repeat because this is what the Mormon church teaches.What does a person have to do to live with their heavenly Father ... I say grace and faith.Below are the LDS teachings, please show me where I am "essentially lying" .Johnny talking to you is like what my grandmother called "talking to a post". It means that you are no smarter than a post and incapable of rational conversation. We (more than one of us) has explained LDS beliefs but you continue to be as RUDE as anybody I have ever come across. You ignore what is said and insist on telling us what we believe.
Jeff K. Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 Jeff K.Where have I been consistently wrong ...The bottom line is that creeds are totally consistent with the inspired word of GodNo they aren't. Of course the Bible has been changed several times too. So I am sure you believe that inconsistent consistency is also "ok". I suggest you educate yourself somewhat with "Lost Christianities: Christian Scriptures and teh Battles over Authentication" by Professor Bart D. Ehrman. It raises some serious questions to your dogmatic stances.
Teancum Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 TeancumHave a nice day then ...Can't do it can you.To all who read this thread...Further evidence the Johny is a dogmatic hack. I offered to continue discussion if Johny would interact with LDS Canon that I provided. Johny will not do this. Why? Because it will defeat Johny's dogmatic agenda. Johny is not interested in truth nor is understanding. Johny wants to define LDS doctrine so it meats his agenda, his straw man, that he can then disingenuously present to others as representing LDS thought when it does not at all.One wonders about the fruit of Johny's alleged faith. By their fruits you know them.As noted, Johny is simply a dogmatic (apostate) hack.
johnny Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 ERayRWe (more than one of us) has explained LDS beliefs but you continue to be as RUDE as anybody I have ever come across. You ignore what is said and insist on telling us what we believe.I have expressed what the LDS church teaches, if I am incorrect then please point it out. Below are the LDS teachings.Gospel Principles Chapter 36 "... each of us has been commanded to marry and have children ...." Gospel Principles Chapter 29 "The Lord commands us not to use wine ... tobacco ... coffee ..." Gospel Principles Chapter 32 "We have been given commandments ...the Law of Tithing ..." Gospel Principles Chapter 36 "If we obey the commandments of the Lord, our families will be together forever as husband, wife, and children."Gospel Principles Chapter 38 "Eternal Marriage Is Essential for Exaltation ... Exaltation is eternal life ..." Gospel Principles Chapter 46 "Those who inherit the highest degree of the celestial kingdom, who become gods, must also have been married for eternity in the temple. All who inherit the celestial kingdom will live with Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ forever." Gospel Principles Chapter 38 "Eternal marriage must be performed by proper authority in the temple ... Before we can go to the temple . . . We must be interviewed . . . asked questions like . . . Do you sustain the President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator? . . . Are you a full-tithe payer? . . . Do you keep the Word of Wisdom?" GUIDE TO THE SCRIPTURES Damnation - The state of being stopped in oneâ??s progress and denied access to the presence of God and his glory. Damnation exists in varying degrees. All who do not obtain the fulness of celestial exaltation will to some degree be limited in their progress and privileges, and they will be damned to that extent.
johnny Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 TeancumTo all who read this thread...To all who read this, this is what the LDS church says,Introduction Gospel Principles "Gospel Principles was written both as a personal study guide and as a teacher's manual. ... Teach only what is supported by the scriptures and the Holy Spirit." Dean L. Larsen, â??I Have a Question,â? Ensign, Aug. 1977, 38Much care is exercised to make certain that the official publications of the Church carry messages that are sound in doctrine and fully in harmony with currently approved policies and procedures. A constant effort is maintained to upgrade and correct the content of these materials so that they can merit the confidence and approval of Church leaders and the general membership.As noted, Johny is simply a dogmatic (apostate) hack. Noted ...
Jeff K. Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 Rather than a cut and paste hit and run johnny. surprise us with providing context.... If you dare.It would help us believe you are honest. Or do you believe dishonesty is ok if you are crusading in the name of God?
johnny Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 Jeff K.Rather than a cut and paste hit and run johnny. surprise us with providing context.... If you dare.Context is ... The Mormon Church teaches "each of us has been commanded to marry and have children. If we obey the commandments of the Lord, our families will be together forever as husband, wife, and children. Eternal Marriage Is Essential for Exaltation, Exaltation is eternal life. Those who inherit the highest degree of the celestial kingdom, who become gods, must also have been married for eternity in the temple. All who inherit the celestial kingdom will live with Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ forever. All who do not obtain the fulness of celestial exaltation will to some degree be limited in their progress and privileges, and they will be damned to that extent.
johnny Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 Jeff K.I suggest you learn the difference between providing your opinion and context. Show the entire section and then explain your opinion.The entire sections can be found at the following link:Gospel Principleshttp://www.lds.org/library/display/0,4945,11-1-13-1,00.htmlMy understanding of what the LDS church is teaching in Gospel Principles is that -Marriage is necessary to become gods, to inherit the highest degree of the celestial kingdom. -Those who inherit the celestial kingdom will live with Heavenly Father forever. -Those who do not obtain the fulness of celestial exaltation will be damned because they have been stopped in their progress and denied access to the presence of God and his glory.
Jeff K. Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 Perhaps I am missing your point.Are you stating that people should not marry? Or perhaps be fruitful and mutliply means simply live together? Just wondering how that meshes with the Bible. Isn't adultry for example, forbidden, in the sense that you are with a woman who is not your wife?
johnny Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 Jeff K.>Are you stating that people should not marry? Some are called to marry and some are called not to marry>Or perhaps be fruitful and mutliply means simply live together? Be fruitful and multiply is for those called to marry,>Just wondering how that meshes with the Bible. Marriage is a not commandment.
captain-jack Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 <Jeff K.>Are you stating that people should not marry? Some are called to marry and some are called not to marry<Jeff K.>Or perhaps be fruitful and mutliply means simply live together? Be fruitful and multiply is for those called to marry,<Jeff K.>Just wondering how that meshes with the Bible. Marriage is a not commandment.If some are called to marry, would that not make it a commandment for them? And how does one know if they are called? What if someone wants children but cannot find a spouse, they are not called though they want to be married and have children? God is unwilling to bless them though they may be better than someone else who is called to marry and bear children but does not want them as much as the first person. What about those children born when the parents were not called to have children?You open quite the pit of questions when you say that some are called to marry.
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.