Bruce R. Mcconkie Believed The Adam-god Theory!

[consiglieri]

One of the most strident denouncers of Brigham Young's Adam-God Theory was Bruce R. McConkie.

Interestingly, it was Brigham Young who appears to have first promulgated the idea that Jesus' mortal body was conceived by a physical union of God and Mary. Only when Brigham Young said "God," he meant "Adam."

In an ironic twist, Bruce R. McConkie holds onto that teaching of Brigham Young, but applies it to "Elohim" instead of "Adam"

And before anybody says CFR, here we go!

Virgin Birth

Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p.822 VIRGIN BIRTH

See ANNUNCIATION, BIRTH, CHRIST, IMMACULATE CONCEPTION THEORY, MARY. Our Lord is the only mortal person ever born to a virgin, because he is the only person who ever had an immortal Father. Mary, his mother, "was carried away in the Spirit" (1 Ne. 11:13-21), was "overshadowed" by the Holy Ghost, and the conception which took place "by the power of the Holy Ghost" resulted in the bringing forth of the literal and personal Son of God the Father. (Alma 7:10; 2 Ne. 17:14; Isa. 7:14; Matt. 1:18-25; Luke 1:26-38.) Christ is not the Son of the Holy Ghost, but of the Father. (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, pp. 18-20.) Modernistic teachings denying the virgin birth are utterly and completely apostate and false.

And here:

Only Begotten Son

Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p.546 ONLY BEGOTTEN SON

See BELOVED SON, CHRIST, SON, SON OF GOD. Christ is the Only Begotten (Moses 1:6, 17, 21, 33; 2:1, 26-27; 3:18; 4:1), the Only Begotten Son (Jac. 4:5, 11; Alma 12:33-34; 13:5; D. & C. 20:21; 29:42; 49:5; 76:13, 25; John 1:18; 3:16), the Only Begotten of the Father. (Moses 5:9.) These name-titles all signify that our Lord is the only Son of the Father in the flesh. Each of the words is to be understood literally. Only means only; Begotten means begotten; and Son means son. Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers.

What do you think?

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[LDSMusic483]

One of the most strident denouncers of Brigham Young's Adam-God Theory was Bruce R. McConkie.Interestingly, it was Brigham Young who appears to have first promulgated the idea that Jesus' mortal body was conceived by a physical union of God and Mary. Only when Brigham Young said "God," he meant "Adam."In an ironic twist, Bruce R. McConkie holds onto that teaching of Brigham Young, but applies it to "Elohim" instead of "Adam"And before anybody says CFR, here we go!And here:What do you think?All the Best!--Consiglieri

I thought JS also held the same teaching? And I may add that BRM didn't necessarily reject all parts of BY's teaching in the subject. He could hold onto the parts which he felt were true, while rejecting the others.

edited for spelling and clarification

[Flyonthewall]

I think it could be reconciled if, as in the other thread, "Adam" is used as a title and not a name. One of Christ's other name-titles is "Son of Man"

I still think BY understood a concept, that he could not put into words correctly. It was understood in his head, but when he put it into words, it wasn't quite right. Perhaps "we" weren't ready for this hunk a meat?

[consiglieri]

I thought JS also held the same teaching? And I may add that BRM didn't necessarily reject all parts of BY's teaching in the subject. He could hold onto the parts which he felt were true, while rejecting the others.

edited for spelling and clarification

I do not claim my knowledge is encyclopedic, but I am unaware of any quote attributed to Joseph Smith to the effect that God and Mary had a physical union in order to produce the body of Jesus.

If you have one, I would be interested in hearing it, though.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[consiglieri]

I still think BY understood a concept, that he could not put into words correctly.

Are you aware of any other place in Brigham Young's hundreds of recorded discourses where he similarly had a problem putting his concepts into words?

Or is this a phenomenon suffered by Brigham Young only when it came to the Adam-God teaching?

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[cinepro]

I do not claim my knowledge is encyclopedic, but I am unaware of any quote attributed to Joseph Smith to the effect that God and Mary had a physical union in order to produce the body of Jesus.

If you have one, I would be interested in hearing it, though.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

I think it was a misunderstanding, and God and Mary were just sealed, without any physical union.

[consiglieri]

I think it was a misunderstanding, and God and Mary were just sealed, without any physical union.

You crackee me upee!

[LDSMusic483]

I don't think that's the most shocking part of the Adam-God theory. Bruce believed that God the Father was the literal father of Jesus. He just didn't believe that God the Father was Adam. To separate doctrines in my opinion.

[Flyonthewall]

Are you aware of any other place in Brigham Young's hundreds of recorded discourses where he similarly had a problem putting his concepts into words?

Or is this a phenomenon suffered by Brigham Young only when it came to the Adam-God teaching?

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

I am not aware of any, and I am sure he was a great speaker, but if the concept(hunk o' meat) was something the Lord meant for Brother Brigham only, then we would not understand it when he tried to put into words.

I remember in some math classes, when the class would come across some process that we hadn't been taught yet, the instructor would just tell us to skip over that part because we haven't been taught it and didn't want us to get confused by it.

My guess would be we don't have the level of understanding requried to reconcile BY words with the concept he spoke of.

[bluebell]

[i don't what others have said as i've not read the thread, but this appears to me to be an explanation that Christ literally is the Son of God the Father and Mary in that His mortal body grew due to the combining of DNA from both of them (from God and mary, not the Holy Ghost and mary), just like mortal babies grow and develop today and have for all of 'time'.

I don't see it as an explanation or statement of how God the Father's DNA ended up inside Mary.

[Obiwan]

One of the most strident denouncers of Brigham Young's Adam-God Theory was Bruce R. McConkie.

Interestingly, it was Brigham Young who appears to have first promulgated the idea that Jesus' mortal body was conceived by a physical union of God and Mary. Only when Brigham Young said "God," he meant "Adam."

In an ironic twist, Bruce R. McConkie holds onto that teaching of Brigham Young, but applies it to "Elohim" instead of "Adam"

And before anybody says CFR, here we go!

And here:

What do you think?

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

I think your becoming an anti..... suffering from the same comprehension skills as they do.

Your straining to place an interpretation onto McConkie that is easily refuted. Heck, it's even refuted in his own statement "Virgin".

The fertilizing of Mary's egg occurred through the Administration of the Holy Ghost, by the Power of God, as the scriptures state. PERIOD!

Yet, he's still the LITERAL Son of God.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I don't have Mormon Doctrine with me...But Elder Bruce said under the topic of "Virgin Birth" (from memory)

"That any church who teaches against (Virgin Birth) is totally apostate and false"...I will check out exact wording at home.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

One of the most strident denouncers of Brigham Young's Adam-God Theory was Bruce R. McConkie.

Interestingly, it was Brigham Young who appears to have first promulgated the idea that Jesus' mortal body was conceived by a physical union of God and Mary. Only when Brigham Young said "God," he meant "Adam."

In an ironic twist, Bruce R. McConkie holds onto that teaching of Brigham Young, but applies it to "Elohim" instead of "Adam"

And before anybody says CFR, here we go!

And here:

What do you think?

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

I dont see any refrence to Adam-God here. I am confused. I think the statements are spot on though.

When is there ever a Father with out a Son or a Son with out a Father??

[LDSMusic483]

I dont see any refrence to Adam-God here. I am confused. I think the statements are spote on though.

When is there ever a Father with out a Son or a Son with out a Father??

JS said that!

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

JS said that!

Yes I believe so. Dont ask for a source I dont have one. Some one welse will provide it though.

[LDSMusic483]

Yes I believe so. Dont ask for a source I dont have one. Some one welse will provide it though.

If I was at home, I could do it. It's either in TPJS or in the Encyclopedia of Joseph Smiths Teachings, one of the two.

[Lachoneus]

I don't have Mormon Doctrine with me...But Elder Bruce said under the topic of "Virgin Birth" (from memory)

"That any church who teaches against (Virgin Birth) is totally apostate and false"...I will check out exact wording at home.

How about this --

See -->ANNUNCIATION, -->BIRTH, -->CHRIST, -->IMMACULATE CONCEPTION THEORY, -->MARY. Our Lord is the only mortal person ever born to a virgin, because he is the only person who ever had an immortal Father. Mary, his mother, "was carried away in the Spirit" (1 Ne. 11:13-21), was "overshadowed" by the Holy Ghost, and the conception which took place "by the power of the Holy Ghost" resulted in the bringing forth of the literal and personal Son of God the Father. (Alma 7:10; 2 Ne. 17:14; Isa. 7:14; Matt. 1:18-25; Luke 1:26-38.) Christ is not the Son of the Holy Ghost, but of the Father. (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, pp. 18-20.) Modernistic teachings denying the virgin birth are utterly and completely apostate and false.

[Lachoneus]

Yes I believe so. Dont ask for a source I dont have one. Some one welse will provide it though.

Here you go --

If Abraham reasoned thus--If Jesus Christ was the Son of God, and John discovered that God the Father of Jesus Christ had a Father, you may suppose that He had a Father also. Where was there ever a son without a father? And where was there ever a father without first being a son? Whenever did a tree or anything spring into existence without a progenitor? And everything comes in this way. Paul says that which is earthly is in the likeness of that which is heavenly, Hence if Jesus had a Father, can we not believe that He had a Father also? I despise the idea of being scared to death at such a doctrine, for the Bible is full of it.

6 History of the Church 473-479

[SilverKnight]

What do you think?

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

Consig-

BRM may indeed have believed the Divine Incest theory, but he was alone among his contemporaries - to the degree that current president David O McKay called him on his unorthodox (or perhaps too orthodox) opinions and made him remove/alter them for Mormon Doctrine 2nd Edition.

It is clear this was the opinion of a rogue apostle and not the thinking of the current, and future, president of the church.

[mnn727]

I think it does not matter what BRM thought when he first wrote MoDoc, he was not an apostle at that time and not speaking by way of revelation.

I think any talk about how Jesus was conceived is just speculation and totally irrelivant to salvation. The BoM says she was a virgin even after Christs birth and the BoM is Doctrine. Why anyone feels the need to go further than that is beyond me.

[consiglieri]

Hi, everybody!

I'm back from lunch, and it looks like the responses are falling out along well established lines.

The first thing I would like to establish is whether we can agree that Bruce R. McConkie did in fact teach that Jesus was literally begotten by a physical (read, "sexual") union between God and Mary.

It seems clear he is saying precisely that. He uses what became regarded as LDS "inside-the-circle-speak" for sexual relations; i.e., "Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers."

That's his quote, not mine.

Does anybody here dispute the plain meaning of his words?

Or maybe somebody here also has a virgin for a mother?

(And by the way, this is not from the original edition of Mormon Doctrine, but from the modified and "corrected" version.)

So let's see if we can come to some consensus on what it is BRM is actually saying before we take it from there. OK?

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[Thinking]

I'm guessing that if I or another critic started this topic, one of the first replies would have been, "Mormon Doctrine is not official LDS doctrine." Then the thread would have been hijacked into another "what constitutes LDS doctrine" thread.

[alter idem]

Hi, everybody!

I'm back from lunch, and it looks like the responses are falling out along well established lines.

The first thing I would like to establish is whether we can agree that Bruce R. McConkie did in fact teach that Jesus was literally begotten by a physical (read, "sexual") union between God and Mary.

It seems clear he is saying precisely that. He uses what became regarded as LDS "inside-the-circle-speak" for sexual relations; i.e., "Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers."

That's his quote, not mine.

Does anybody here dispute the plain meaning of his words?

Or maybe somebody here also has a virgin for a mother?

(And by the way, this is not from the original edition of Mormon Doctrine, but from the modified and "corrected" version.)

So let's see if we can come to some consensus on what it is BRM is actually saying before we take it from there. OK?

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

I won't dispute it. That's what I believe he is implying when I read his statement.

However, as Thinking alludes to, I'd say it's one of his "unofficial beliefs" that he put in his book which should not be taken as "official", 'cause it certainly isn't church doctrine.

[Thinking]

Consilglieri,

Can you move into my ward and become the gospel doctrine teacher? I still attend Sunday School with my wife and if you were the teacher, I would be entertained just looking at the facial expressions in the room when you delved where you're not supposed to delve.

[SilverKnight]

So let's see if we can come to some consensus on what it is BRM is actually saying before we take it from there. OK?

1. BRM is discreetly saying he believes God had sex with Mary.

2. BRM's opinion was not shared by other members of the quorum, nor the First Presidency, who had this to say about it:

The First Presidency held a meeting. We decided that Bruce R. McConkieâ??s book, â??Mormon Doctrineâ?? recently published by Bookcraft Company, must not be re-published, as it is full of errors and misstatements, and it is most unfortunate that it has receive such wide circulation. It is reported to us that Brother McConkie has made corrections to his book, and is now preparing another edition. We decided this morning that we do not want him to publish another edition.