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Why Is The Book Of Mormon So Beautiful?


consiglieri

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Posted

Cinepro!! Your face is getting red... stop it!

;):P Garden Girl

Posted
Why on earth should God want to reveal more to this faithless generation? What have they done with what He has already revealed? Mocked it, made silly "rock in a hat" jokes and treated that which is sacred with disrespect! Yes I would not hold my breath either...I would beware:

That same line could easily have been (probably was?) shouted by critic ministers of Joseph's day and age. They had the Bible...why would they need anything more? What had that faithless generation done with what God had already given them?

I too have often wondered why God would give "scripture" at only select periods of time. Seems more like He's putting out new volumes all the time and we humans only canonize 1/1000th of what comes our way.

Posted
Why on earth should God want to reveal more to this faithless generation? What have they done with what He has already revealed? Mocked it, made silly "rock in a hat" jokes and treated that which is sacred with disrespect! Yes I would not hold my breath either...I would beware:

Can you please share an example of a time when God gave additional scriptures to a group of people who were already fully using what they had? Were the early saints using the Bible so faithfully and completely that they were worthy of the Book of Mormon? Were they using the Book of Mormon so faithfully that God had to give them the Book of Abraham? Or 130+ individual canonized revelations?

And then it just stopped. Sure, there are conference talks and books written by GA's, but everyone knows they are mostly personal opinion. There have been statements from the First Presidency, but those read more like correlated press releases than anything like Joseph's revelation straight from the mouth of God.

Whether Joseph's ability to translate ancient documents and reveal "Thus saith the Lord..." revelations in olde English was given him by God, or something he just made up on his own is irrelevant. Either way, it is painfully obvious that that ability died with Joseph, and didn't make the transition to subsequent prophets. And based on the King Follet Discourse, I don't think it can be argued that Joseph had finished revealing everything he wanted us to know. Subsequent prophets have done a good job tending the doctrinal garden Joseph planted, but it would also be awesome if some new doctrinal plants could bloom every now and then (and "I don't know that we teach that" doesn't count.)

Posted
I am glad that the Book of Mormon uplifts and inspires you. The Bible does the same for me.I do have one question about your quote, "the Book of Mormon outshines the Bible in EVERY category."How about prophecy, do you think that the Book of Mormon outshines the Bible in this category as well?How about documented history, which one outshines in this category?

Hold on there, Bubbalooey! If you want to get creative in your listing of categories, there are some in which I would agree with you the Bible excels the Book of Mormon.

For example, the Bible outshines the Book of Mormon in overall percentage of changes made in the text since the original publication of the English version.

The Bible also outshines the Book of Mormon in number of internal contradictions in the text.

Shall I go on, or have I agreed with you enough yet?

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

Whether Joseph's ability to translate ancient documents and reveal "Thus saith the Lord..." revelations in olde English was given him by God, or something he just made up on his own is irrelevant. Either way, it is painfully obvious that that ability died with Joseph, and didn't make the transition to subsequent prophets. And based on the King Follet Discourse, I don't think it can be argued that Joseph had finished revealing everything he wanted us to know. Subsequent prophets have done a good job tending the doctrinal garden Joseph planted, but it would also be awesome if some new doctrinal plants could bloom every now and then (and "I don't know that we teach that" doesn't count.)

I would agree with you that, for whatever reason, Joseph Smith was sui generis.

Posted

The Book of Mormon is an amazing book. The more I read it, the more I fall in love with it.

I have read it about 7 times in my life so far, but I never get bored with it and always find new and exciting insights about the authors and message of the Book of Mormon every time I read it.

Recently, I picked up Donald W. Parry's book Poetic Parallelisms which is the entire Book of Mormon reformatted according to chiasmus and other Hebraisms.If you thought the Book of Mormon was cool before, wait till you read it reformatted according to a chiastic and Hebraic outline. I was blown away! The literary value becomes 100% more powerful when you read it like that.

Not only that, but the fact that it has held up for all these years in the face of criticism and scorn is also amazing to me. I always maintain that as more time passes and as our understanding of the ancient world increases, the Book of Mormon keeps looking better and better. (See my siggy from Pres. Hinckly)

Posted
My love for all scripture increases each time I read them...as for the BoM...more than any other. It is pure poetry and doctrine at it's best.

Pa Pa !!!

In a beautiful thread !!!

Somehow that just seems fitting.

Now I'm going to have this song playing in my head for.... what... who knows how long?

Oh, my Pa Pa.

To me, he was so beautiful.

Oh, my Pa Pa.

To me, he was so good.

:P

Posted
Oh, my Pa Pa.

To me, he was so beautiful.

Oh, my Pa Pa.

To me, he was so good.

Um . . . isn't it "to me he was so wonderful"?

Unless you're thinking Eddie Fisher suffered from a somewhat misguided Oedipal complex.

Posted

Beauty must be in the eye of the beholder, because I just don't see it. I find the Book of Mormon clunky, redundant, with run-on sentences, dead-end tangents, and a total lack of verisimilitude. The characters are one dimensional, with no real motivations other than pure goodness or pure evil (Just look at the Nephi/Laman and Lemuel dynamic). The battles depicted are moronic and childish: two tribes go to war, every single person is killed, and the tribal leaders just happen to the last ones standing, so they go at it. Come on. That wouldn't even fly in Lord of the Rings. Even B.H. Roberts admitted that the BoM seemed to be the product of an inexperienced and immature mind. It's also so sleep-inducingly dull that anyone who's read it can immediately relate to Mark Twain's description of the book as "chloroform in print."

Muslims swoon over the beauty of the Koran, too. It must lose a lot in translation, because I don't see it there, either.

Posted
Um . . . isn't it "to me he was so wonderful"?

Unless you're thinking Eddie Fisher suffered from a somewhat misguided Oedipal complex.

Picky, picky.

Yeah, okay, he is wonderful.

There. Are you happy now?

Posted
Beauty must be in the eye of the beholder, because I just don't see it. I find the Book of Mormon clunky, redundant, with run-on sentences, dead-end tangents, and a total lack of verisimilitude. The characters are one dimensional, with no real motivations other than pure goodness or pure evil (Just look at the Nephi/Laman and Lemuel dynamic). The battles depicted are moronic and childish: two tribes go to war, every single person is killed, and the tribal leaders just happen to the last ones standing, so they go at it. Come on. That wouldn't even fly in Lord of the Rings. Even B.H. Roberts admitted that the BoM seemed to be the product of an inexperienced and immature mind. It's also so sleep-inducingly dull that anyone who's read it can immediately relate to Mark Twain's description of the book as "chloroform in print."

Muslims swoon over the beauty of the Koran, too. It must lose a lot in translation, because I don't see it there, either.

Infidels can lose their heads over the Koran, too, but that is another subject.

Let me address your comments on the Book of Mormon, though.

The first several times I read through the Book of Mormon, I too thought it contained dead-end tangents. With repeated and more careful reading, however, I have found that what I thought were dead-end tangents always wind up coming back to the point where they left off, even if it is many verses later. This by itself is impressive to me, and I have thought several times about starting a thread on that alone, but never got around to it.

I agree that Nephi's character appears one-dimensional . . . until I got to 2 Nephi 4 and found out what was going on in his head and heart all along, and how he struggled with sin.

I agree that Laman and Lemuel appear to be pure evil . . . until I realize they act the way I probably would have acted in the same situation.

I agree that the portraits of the Nephites and Lamanites appear one-dimensional (Nephites-good; Lamanites-bad) . . . until I started realizing that the Book of Mormon takes pains to portray the Lamanites as being in many ways more righteous than the Nephites; such as in Jacob's sermon at the temple. And of course, it wasn't the Lamanites who were exterminated at the end of the story.

As to the two commanders being the last one's standing, I suppose that might make more sense if we consider they were probably safely behind the battle lines all along, and pretty much everybody in between would have to die before they would come face to face. But my recollection is that this scenario happens only in the Book of Ether and could not be used to describe the numerous other battle scenes in the Book of Mormon, which seem to be written from a perspective of somebody who had actually experienced the grim realities of war first-hand, as opposed to Joseph Smith's romanticized version of the military.

On the subject of beauty, though, I respect your position that you do not find the Book of Mormon beautiful as do I.

My experience has been that the more I get to "know" the Book of Mormon, the more beautiful it becomes.

It seems, though, that discussing beauty in the Book of Mormon, as opposed to truth-claims, is leading to a more fruitful than normal discussion in this area.

Thank you for your contribution.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

Posted

We have written accounts that the BoM was in fact copied from the "Manuscript Found" by Spalding, he spent over 10 years writing this novel. Rigdon added the religious text. Are we seeing the fruit of Spaldings/Rigdon's work? One way to easily prove that God produced the Bom is then why were there soo many errors?

Are we in fact reading a version that is not from God but one that has been revised over a 100 year period?

Posted
Beauty must be in the eye of the beholder, because I just don't see it. I find the Book of Mormon clunky, redundant, with run-on sentences, dead-end tangents, and a total lack of verisimilitude. The characters are one dimensional, with no real motivations other than pure goodness or pure evil (Just look at the Nephi/Laman and Lemuel dynamic). The battles depicted are moronic and childish: two tribes go to war, every single person is killed, and the tribal leaders just happen to the last ones standing, so they go at it. Come on. That wouldn't even fly in Lord of the Rings. Even B.H. Roberts admitted that the BoM seemed to be the product of an inexperienced and immature mind. It's also so sleep-inducingly dull that anyone who's read it can immediately relate to Mark Twain's description of the book as "chloroform in print."

Muslims swoon over the beauty of the Koran, too. It must lose a lot in translation, because I don't see it there, either.

Good grief. What a horrifically shallow review of the Book of Mormon.

I find the Book of Mormon clunky, redundant, with run-on sentences, dead-end tangents, and a total lack of verisimilitude.

Not when you read it when the text has been formatted according to parallel chiastic formating.

The characters are one dimensional, with no real motivations other than pure goodness or pure evil (Just look at the Nephi/Laman and Lemuel dynamic)

Are you sure we are talking about the same book? I read a book about Benjamin lamenting over his inadequacy serve others. I read a book about Mormon proclaiming "woe is me" because, despite that he has faith in Christ, his Nephite brethren were so wicked. Conversely, I read of Samuel the Lamanite warning of impending doom upon the wicked Nephites and Lamoni, a Lamanite king, who drops into a coma after hearing Ammon.

The battles depicted are moronic and childish: two tribes go to war, every single person is killed, and the tribal leaders just happen to the last ones standing, so they go at it. Come on.

Yeah, who are they to accurately describe ancient Mesoamerican warfare. (See Hamblin "Warfare in the Book of Mormon" from FARMS). Geez...Joseph Smith was such a claude. He should have sticked to the romanticized American view of the noble war with chivalry, etc.

Even B.H. Roberts admitted that the BoM seemed to be the product of an inexperienced and immature mind.

If there is one thing I hate more than lies, it is damned lies.

http://en.fairmormon.org/B.H._Roberts%27_t..._Book_of_Mormon

Posted
We have written accounts that the BoM was in fact copied from the "Manuscript Found" by Spalding, he spent over 10 years writing this novel. Rigdon added the religious text. Are we seeing the fruit of Spaldings/Rigdon's work? One way to easily prove that God produced the Bom is then why were there soo many errors?

Are we in fact reading a version that is not from God but one that has been revised over a 100 year period?

See "The Mythical 'Manuscript Found,'" by Matthew Roper, in FARMS Review 17:2:

http://farms.byu.edu/publications/reviewvo...17&number=2

Posted
It's also so sleep-inducingly dull that anyone who's read it can immediately relate to Mark Twain's description of the book as "chloroform in print."

Gee....Mark Twain said that? Who would have guessed.

Anyway, I completely, 100%, undeniable disagree with Twain's flippant comments. I can not relate in any way. I am always excited and involved when I read the Book of Mormon.

Posted
We have written accounts that the BoM was in fact copied from the "Manuscript Found" by Spalding, he spent over 10 years writing this novel. Rigdon added the religious text. Are we seeing the fruit of Spaldings/Rigdon's work? One way to easily prove that God produced the Bom is then why were there soo many errors?

Are we in fact reading a version that is not from God but one that has been revised over a 100 year period?

There were errors in the Book of Mormon? Oh, crap. You are right. You just proved it to not be of God. And so easily, too. What was I thinking?

We also have written accounts that the heaven is made of a solid crystal substance and is held up by pillars at the four corners of the flat earth.

No, wait. That's in the Bible.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

Posted
We also have written accounts that the heaven is made of a solid crystal substance and is held up by pillars at the four corners of the flat earth.

What is the verse for this? I can't seem to find it.

Posted
What is the verse for this? I can't seem to find it.

You can find the "firmament" in Genesis, the pillars in Job, and the four corners just about everywhere.

And for your Bible searching pleasure, you can also find the flood above the firmament and the flood under the earth, both of which were broken up at the time of the flood . . . and none of which actually exist.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

Posted
We also have written accounts that the heaven is made of a solid crystal substance and is held up by pillars at the four corners of the flat earth.

I don't think this is from the Bible, I looked up the references you gave me from your post and did not find:

1. Heaven made out of solid crystal substance

2. Heaven is held up by 4 pillars at the 4 corners of the flat earth.

The only thing close to what you said I found in Job 38, where God is questioning Job about the creation of the earth. God here is not telling Job how it was done, rather asking Job how it was created, which Job obviously can't answer.

Job 38

4Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

5Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

6Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

Maybe I am overlooking something, can you provide the verses?

Posted

I think these are the verses in question:

ISA 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth

OB 26:11 The pillars of heaven tremble and are astonished at his reproof.

Posted
We have written accounts that the BoM was in fact copied from the "Manuscript Found" by Spalding, he spent over 10 years writing this novel. Rigdon added the religious text.

WHAT!?!? The mighty Zeus has spoken. My Jove! I can't believe I've believed in this fraud for so long!

Posted
You're old.

--------

(There are definitely some very beautiful aspects to the bookâ?¦ they tend to sneak up on you Wu-tang tiger-style. Nephi's Psalm is groovy stuff.).

I have to disagree with you. (the old part) :P

Posted
As part of teaching gospel doctrine class, I have been reading (and reading hard) the Book of Mormon from the beginning and up through the end of the Book of Mosiah so far.

This would be well over my twentieth time reading the Book of Mormon.

When I read the Book of Mormon the first time at age 18, I received a strong witness that it is the Word of God. As important as that experience was to me, I was far from an expert on the contents of the book at the end of that first reading.

It was for me a profound and beautiful experience.

The surprising thing to me is that, the more I read the Book of Mormon, and the closer I read the Book of Mormon, the more beautiful it becomes.

The life I have experienced in the 30-years since I was 18 have informed my reading of the Book of Mormon, and I see depths and insights and experiences related in the Book of Mormon that went unappreciated and unrecognized when I was a teenager; or a twenty-something; or a thirty-something.

The thought that occurred to me the other night upon finishing Mosiah is that the Book of Mormon is "beautiful."

I am not sure of a better way to express it; and this is separate and apart from my spiritual witness that it is true.

It is simply a beautiful book.

I feel good when I read it.

It uplifts me.

I am left to wonder how a book alleged by critics to have been produced in upstate New York in the early 19th century could be so beautiful, and could continue to yield new insights and understandings after 20-readings and 30-years.

Any thoughts?

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

I have the same feelings when I read the Book of Mormon...and I don't pretend to know hardly anything compared to what my bishop, stake president, apostle, or president of the Church knows about it...it has really blessed my life...

Posted
We have written accounts that the BoM was in fact copied from the "Manuscript Found" by Spalding, he spent over 10 years writing this novel. Rigdon added the religious text. Are we seeing the fruit of Spaldings/Rigdon's work? One way to easily prove that God produced the Bom is then why were there soo many errors?

Are we in fact reading a version that is not from God but one that has been revised over a 100 year period?

Here's some of Spalding's most beautiful writing. It fairly explodes off the page and ignites fires within the heart.

One can easily imagine the religious elements interspersed with Joseph's clumsy theft of Spalding's masterpiece.

"Fame with her thousand tongues commenced her pleasing employment. And as swift as the wings of Time, she wafted the intelligence through the city with many distorted and exaggerated particulars; all was astonishment, confusion, and uproar. Resentment enkindled her indignant sparks into a flame and the general cry was 'revenge and war.'

"The Sciotan King was walking in his parlor, feeding his imagination with the pleasing prospect of his future glory and felicity.

"I am" quoth he to himself, "honored above all the other Princes of the Empire; and even above the heir-apparent to the imperial crown of Kentuck. Who could be admitted except myself to marry the fair Lamesa, the eldest daughter of the Emperor, the most amiable, the most accomplished, and the most honorable lady in the universe.? This is a distinction which will place me on equal ground with the Emperor himself; and command from all my subjects the homage of their highest respect and reverence.

"Besides, I have a soul that can relish the charms of the beautiful maid. She will adore me as her lord and think herself highly honored and exceeding happy to submit to my most endearing and affectionate embraces." But ah, mighty Sambal, you little thought how soon this delightful prospect would be reversed; and that your soul would be filled with chagrin, indignation, and revenge.

"A messenger burst into his parlor and announced the astonishing tidings of Lamesa's elopement. "She has absolutely gone" says he, "to become the wife of Elseon and the Empress of Kentuck."

"Not the tremendous and instantaneous roar of ten thousand thunders instantaneously through the atmosphere could have produced greater surprise. His countenance was all amazement. It was for a moment covered with paleness, his lips quivered, his knees smote together, and his gigantic body trembled like the shaking of a tower under the effects of an earthquake.

"But soon his reflections and cogitations caused the blood to return with a tenfold velocity into his face. It assumed the color of redness. He assumed the attitude of terrific majesty and poured forth his feelings in a voice more terrible than the roaring of a volcano.

"How have I been insulted, abused, dishonored and outraged. How have my prospects of glory been instantaneously blasted and my character become the utter ridicule of a laughing world. What felicities of enjoying the imperial maid in my arms adoring me for her husband are now vanished. And by whom am I thus disgraced, insulted, and injured? By the mock Prince of Kentuck, an effeminate stripling , a cringing and plausible upstart. He has robbed me of the fairest ornament of my kingdom, Lamesa, who was mine by solemn contract. And must he now revel in her charms, which are mine, and pride himself in those deceitful arts by which he has seduced her and stolen her from my enjoyment? No, ungrateful and insidious monster, your triumph shall be of short duration and this arm shall visit your crimes upon your head with a tenfold vengeance."

"Having poured forth a torrent of the most dreadful imprecations and menaces, he left his parlor, and walked forth to consult his principal officers on the best plan to obtain revenge."

And this gem of 19th century American prose...read it and weap, Longfellow, Twain, Melville, Hawthorne, Emerson, Poe, Whittier, Emerson. Learn from

the master!

He then broke down the door and entered. Here he beheld all the ladies of the imperial family and many other ladies of distinction. He instantly sprang towards Lamesa in order to seize her but was prevented by Heliza, who stepped between them and, falling upon her knees, implored him to spare the life of Lamesa. Scarce had she spoken when the cruel monster buried his sword in her bosom and she fell lifeless before the eyes of her dearest friend.

Lamesa gave a scream, and looking fiercely on Sambal, she exclaimed.

"Thou monster of villainy and cruelty, could nothing satiate your revenge but the death of my dear friend, the amiable, the innocent Heliza? Here is my heart; I am prepared for your next victim."

"Ah, no." says Sambal, "Your life is safe from my sword. I shall conduct you to my palace and you shall be honored with me for your partner."

"Insult me not," says she, "thou malicious, bloody villain. Either kill me or be gone from my sight; my eyes can never endure the man who is guilty of such monstrous crimes."

"Set your heart at rest," says he, "my dear Lamesa. I will convince you that I am a better man than your beloved Elseon; his head shall soon satiate my revenge and then you shall be the Queen of Sciota."

At this instant a loud voice was heard: "The Kentucks are marching with a prodigious army towards the fort!"

Sambal, turning to his warriors present, ordered them to guard the women in that house and not permit any of them to escape. "For" says he, "I must go and destroy that army of Kentucks."

Oh, the rapture!

Bernard

Posted
Here's some of Spalding's most beautiful writing. It fairly explodes off the page and ignites fires within the heart.

One can easily imagine the religious elements interspersed with Joseph's clumsy theft of Spalding's masterpiece.

"Fame with her thousand tongues commenced her pleasing employment. And as swift as the wings of Time, she wafted the intelligence through the city with many distorted and exaggerated particulars; all was astonishment, confusion, and uproar. Resentment enkindled her indignant sparks into a flame and the general cry was 'revenge and war.'

"The Sciotan King was walking in his parlor, feeding his imagination with the pleasing prospect of his future glory and felicity.

"I am" quoth he to himself, "honored above all the other Princes of the Empire; and even above the heir-apparent to the imperial crown of Kentuck. Who could be admitted except myself to marry the fair Lamesa, the eldest daughter of the Emperor, the most amiable, the most accomplished, and the most honorable lady in the universe.? This is a distinction which will place me on equal ground with the Emperor himself; and command from all my subjects the homage of their highest respect and reverence.

"Besides, I have a soul that can relish the charms of the beautiful maid. She will adore me as her lord and think herself highly honored and exceeding happy to submit to my most endearing and affectionate embraces." But ah, mighty Sambal, you little thought how soon this delightful prospect would be reversed; and that your soul would be filled with chagrin, indignation, and revenge.

"A messenger burst into his parlor and announced the astonishing tidings of Lamesa's elopement. "She has absolutely gone" says he, "to become the wife of Elseon and the Empress of Kentuck."

"Not the tremendous and instantaneous roar of ten thousand thunders instantaneously through the atmosphere could have produced greater surprise. His countenance was all amazement. It was for a moment covered with paleness, his lips quivered, his knees smote together, and his gigantic body trembled like the shaking of a tower under the effects of an earthquake.

"But soon his reflections and cogitations caused the blood to return with a tenfold velocity into his face. It assumed the color of redness. He assumed the attitude of terrific majesty and poured forth his feelings in a voice more terrible than the roaring of a volcano.

"How have I been insulted, abused, dishonored and outraged. How have my prospects of glory been instantaneously blasted and my character become the utter ridicule of a laughing world. What felicities of enjoying the imperial maid in my arms adoring me for her husband are now vanished. And by whom am I thus disgraced, insulted, and injured? By the mock Prince of Kentuck, an effeminate stripling , a cringing and plausible upstart. He has robbed me of the fairest ornament of my kingdom, Lamesa, who was mine by solemn contract. And must he now revel in her charms, which are mine, and pride himself in those deceitful arts by which he has seduced her and stolen her from my enjoyment? No, ungrateful and insidious monster, your triumph shall be of short duration and this arm shall visit your crimes upon your head with a tenfold vengeance."

"Having poured forth a torrent of the most dreadful imprecations and menaces, he left his parlor, and walked forth to consult his principal officers on the best plan to obtain revenge."

And this gem of 19th century American prose...read it and weap, Longfellow, Twain, Melville, Hawthorne, Emerson, Poe, Whittier, Emerson. Learn from

the master!

He then broke down the door and entered. Here he beheld all the ladies of the imperial family and many other ladies of distinction. He instantly sprang towards Lamesa in order to seize her but was prevented by Heliza, who stepped between them and, falling upon her knees, implored him to spare the life of Lamesa. Scarce had she spoken when the cruel monster buried his sword in her bosom and she fell lifeless before the eyes of her dearest friend.

Lamesa gave a scream, and looking fiercely on Sambal, she exclaimed.

"Thou monster of villainy and cruelty, could nothing satiate your revenge but the death of my dear friend, the amiable, the innocent Heliza? Here is my heart; I am prepared for your next victim."

"Ah, no." says Sambal, "Your life is safe from my sword. I shall conduct you to my palace and you shall be honored with me for your partner."

"Insult me not," says she, "thou malicious, bloody villain. Either kill me or be gone from my sight; my eyes can never endure the man who is guilty of such monstrous crimes."

"Set your heart at rest," says he, "my dear Lamesa. I will convince you that I am a better man than your beloved Elseon; his head shall soon satiate my revenge and then you shall be the Queen of Sciota."

At this instant a loud voice was heard: "The Kentucks are marching with a prodigious army towards the fort!"

Sambal, turning to his warriors present, ordered them to guard the women in that house and not permit any of them to escape. "For" says he, "I must go and destroy that army of Kentucks."

Oh, the rapture!

Bernard

:P;):crazy::fool::):crazy::beatdeadhorse::rolleyes::rofl:

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