Byu Admissions

[urroner]

I have no idea about General Authority offspring-tuition-wavers, but I can guarantee you that the children of BYU faculty get reduced tuition (and that spouses can attend for free). It's part of the compensation package, and I don't see what the problem with that would be. Unless someone wants to argue that BYU faculty shouldn't be compensated -- an argument that some, no doubt, would be willing to make -- it seems to me entirely up the University to determine what form that compensation should take.

During my time at the Y, during the 70's, practically everybody knew that the children of faculty members got reduced tuition or maybe we thought it was free and that the spouse got in free and AFAIK, nobody complained about it. It's a tempest in a teacup.

[RedSox]

During my time at the Y, during the 70's, practically everybody knew that the children of faculty members got reduced tuition or maybe we thought it was free and that the spouse got in free and AFAIK, nobody complained about it. It's a tempest in a teacup.

Does anyone really have a problem with children of faculty getting an 800-dollar per semester tuition break?

[Baurak Ale]

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[juliann]

So what is the secret to getting free tuition, how did she pull that off she must be one smart cookie?

She is, had the grades...and I still remember her "huh?!!!" phone call when she got that in the mail. She does have to apply for different scholarships each year but has always gotten one. But what that means is that they do try to spread out the scholarships. The problem I do see with BYU is that so many want in the bar is very high. I'd guess maybe a third of the kids who apply from our ward get in. However, I have known several who slid in by going to summer school. They have a special program where kids who didn't qualify can go and build up their GPA. Or, there is a young man in my ward now who applied for the "off season" semester and got in that way. Everyone gets into BYU-Idaho that I have known and getting good grades there and transferring has worked, too. Since I don't think asking for better than average grades is excessive, I would say that there is a way to get into BYU for about anyone who will put in the effort. From what I have seen, I'd also make a guess that it is easier to get into BYU by hook or by crook than other schools with equally high admission demands.

[Daniel Peterson]

I wonder if this apparent bias shown towards the churches elite at BYU was voiced in anual accreditation meetings if that could be problematic

I doubt very much that an accreditation committee would care about such things, even if your claim were true.

this apparent bias shown towards the churches elite at BYU

Good grief.

Anyhow I do not know enough about this process to know if it could affect accreditation I would guess there would be those here more qualified to answer that question.

As I say, I doubt it very, very much.

[USU78]

I doubt very much that an accreditation committee would care about such things, even if your claim were true.

Good grief.

As I say, I doubt it very, very much.

Why would anybody want to be so stingy as to object to faculty, GAs, etc. getting some kind of tuition/admissions break? It boggles my admittedly limited mind.

[Calm]

I wonder if this apparent bias shown towards the churches elite at BYU was voiced in anual accreditation meetings if that could be problematic, fortunately I don't think it is widely known. Anyhow I do not know enough about this process to know if it could affect accreditation I would guess there would be those here more qualified to answer that question.

It is highly unlikely considering what I've seen at various universities.

[Truth]

Why would anybody want to be so stingy as to object to faculty, GAs, etc. getting some kind of tuition/admissions break? It boggles my admittedly limited mind.

I am not worried about it one way or another, I don't get to set policy. However, I can see the issue of people objecting to GAs' children getting a break, if it is true.

How often have we heard, "it doesn't matter where you serve, it is how you serve". Also, for example in the temple, we are all dressed alike, no one looks richer than another, equality. When you look at it from the outside, GAs tend to be wealthier, and then get a break. What may be a sacrifice in your income may just be putting you on the same tier as Joe Mormon who works to provide on a regular job and who has to compete for something that is given to someone else. Basically, if true, allowing GAs' kids free schooling because of who they are presents an inequality when compared to the general church membership.

Faculty, I can understand as it is a job and a benefit, like someone in another job complaining about me getting a bonus in my job when they don't.

I do tend to think that it is true, or at least in some degree.

[Kate]

I just don't get what all the stress is about here. So what? If GA's kids get a tuition break, why should that bother anyone? Do you have any idea the sacrifices that those families go through? Probably not. If that is one way that the Lord blesses them for their service, then so be it. I feel the Lord has blessed all BYU students by keeping tuition so low. Even Grad school tuition is lower than any I have seen. And many students are married and having to fend for themselves. Why is everyone complaining? It kind of reminds me of when kids whine because so and so has more play things than they do. And if you say that it's because it comes out of your pocket, so do your tax dollars and believe me, more money from your pocket goes out to people who really shouldn't be getting it through welfare and other agencies.

~Kate

[SolarPowered]

However, I can see the issue of people objecting to GAs' children getting a break, if it is true.

Unless I missed it, I haven't seen even one faithful LDS objecting to the possibility that the children of General Authorities get a break on tuition to attend BYU. The only objection I've seen so far is one person who perceives that a less-qualified child of a General Authority was admitted when he was not, which is a considerably different (though somewhat related) matter.

[Stargazer]

Incidentally I would like to echo Stargazer's high estimation of Elder Bruce Porter, who has been a good friend since our freshman year in Hinckley Hall at BYU. (He was the Gospel Doctrine teacher in our student ward, and I was his back-up.)

Ausgezeichnet! Wenn Sie ihn naechtens sehen sollten, bestellen Sie bitte herzliche Glueckwunsche an ihm von mir! Ich heisse Mike Clark; vielleicht wird er mich nicht leicht erkennen -- es ist jetzt 24 Jahren seitdem wir miteinander gesprochen haben.

[USU78]

Ausgezeichnet! Wenn Sie ihn naechtens sehen sollten, bestellen Sie bitte herzliche Glueckwunsche an ihm von mir! Ich heisse Mike Clark; vielleicht wird er mich nicht leicht erkennen -- es ist jetzt 24 Jahren seitdem wir miteinander gesprochen haben.

Does is' ja kein' Vergnuegen net, von Euch Bifka-Marmaladinger Typen zu hoeren.

USU "Mit Roadl doa" 78

[Stargazer]

The late intellectual master of the universe Dr. Hugh Nibley said this quote:

Some years ago, when it was pointed out that BYU graduates were the lowest in the nation, in all catagories of the graduate record examination, the institution characteristically meet the challenge by abolishing the examination. It was done on the grounds that the test did not sufficiently measure our unique spirituality. We talked extensively about the education of the whole man and deplored that educational imbalance that comes when students heads are merely stuffed with facts as if there was any danger of that here!

{Hugh Nibley, Preparing for the Millenium, Vol. 2, Lecture Zeal Vs Knowledge}

ROFLM*O!!... oops sorry pardon my french...

Actually, for the brief time I was at the Y in the mid-seventies, I kinda felt that facts were being crammed in there rather forcefully. I remember English Composition class taught by a grad student where I got the highest grade in the class for our first essay, and it was a C!! And my first physical chemistry exam, where I managed to eke out a 110% due to studying like a fiend -- by the time I ran out of money and joined the Army I felt I had really gotten my money's worth. Physical chemistry was da bomb! I never thought I would have so much fun messing around with numbers! Anybody remember Professor Ott? He wrote the text for the course (along with Prof. Goates), and was a stake president in additon to being a killer chemistry prof -- I wish I could have stayed and gotten a real education.

Although I did like shooting at things and skulking around in the woods, which is what the Army taught me. You want camouflage and calling for artillery fire, I'm your man. Nothing quite like invoking a full battery of 105 mm howitzers onto a small patch of earth -- unless it's 8 inchers! I love the sound of a well-tuned time-on-target fire mission -- living near Fort Lewis, Washington I do get to hear this from time to time.

[Daniel Peterson]

Ausgezeichnet! Wenn Sie ihn naechtens sehen sollten, bestellen Sie bitte herzliche Glueckwunsche an ihm von mir! Ich heisse Mike Clark; vielleicht wird er mich nicht leicht erkennen -- es ist jetzt 24 Jahren seitdem wir miteinander gesprochen haben.

Das mache ich gerne. Wir treffen uns mindestens in April und Oktober jedes Jahr und sprechen telephonisch miteinander ab und zu w

[Baurak Ale]

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[RedSox]

Yiddiou giddiuys spiddieakiddaging Giddierminddian iddaare giddaetiddaing iddaniddaoyiddaing.

[Baurak Ale]

edited

[thesometimesaint]

Baurak Ale:

The easiest possible way is to be a member of the Church in good standing, go to a different University for the first two years. Have a good GPA, and transfer.

[Orpheus]

The easiest possible way would be to be born into the family of a General Authority I suggest, where according to Doctor Lion there is no evaluation process for admissions regardless of high school grades for the children of General Authorites. Alternatively I do not know if this is possible but perhaps worth a try to anyone that is desperate enough to get into BYU, would be to spend a little time in their local genealogical library and see if there is some possibility of forging a link with the family of a general authority, I do not know if that would be of any efficacy or if the perk is only filial.

You have had your say, you haven't added anything new to your accusations and your open disdain is wearing thin. This is the last time you get to spam disrespect of Mormon leaders. Don't post in this thread again.

[Baurak Ale]

Ok I will remain silent, and abide your decision. Can you please inform me when I am allowed to speak again?

Kind Regards

Baurak Ale

I will abide by Orpheus's censure, delete all my posts on this topic, and follow his request to, 'back it up with something'.

Speak away but not in this thread on this topic. Because it is the New Year and I'm in a good mood I will warn you that you are logged as being warned for gossipy bashing of LDS leaders before. We don't like it once and we really don't like it twice so you might want to not do it anymore unless you can back it up with something more than sarcasticly repeating yourself. ~ Mods

[Daniel Peterson]

The easiest possible way would be to be born into the family of a General Authority I suggest, where according to Doctor Lion there is no evaluation process for admissions regardless of high school grades for the children of General Authorites.

As I've said, for at least two reasons I would be surprised if that claim is true.

And, by the way, Ted Lyon's name is spelled with a y.

Alternatively I do not know if this is possible but perhaps worth a try to anyone that is desperate enough to get into BYU, would be to spend a little time in their local genealogical library and see if there is some possibility of forging a link with the family of a general authority, I do not know if that would be of any efficacy or if the perk is only filial.

You're really, really pushing this.

Why?

You do not believe there is any bias shown towards the churches elite at BYU?

I don't believe that there is a Church "elite," and I don't believe that giving discounted tuition to children of General Authorities would constitute "bias" in any case.

If there truly is such a policy, it seems to me a nice but quite minor gesture toward the families of men who have often taken substantial financial hits in order to serve the Church.

Yeah I agree, still I suppose I guess it depends on the Accrediation Committee and last time BYU didn't have a very favourable one.

I hadn't heard this. But I'm frequently fascinated at how much more others seem to know about my place of employment than I do.

I am curious to know how BYU would respond to full tithe paying applicants who get knocked back while they are at the same time paying for the free education of the children of the churches elite.

Every student at BYU (to repeat what I've been saying here) is heavily subsidized. Every single one. All of them. There are no exceptions. No student at BYU has any valid justification for whining or complaining about the cost.

No student at BYU is paying for the education of any other student at BYU. No student at BYU is even paying the full cost of his or her own education.

Would it be wrong if the admissions process was instead meritocratic rather than aristocratic?

You've presented no evidence whatever that the admissions process at BYU is aristocratic rather than meritocratic.

All you've done is gossip and complain.

[John Williams]

Every student at BYU (to repeat what I've been saying here) is heavily subsidized. Every single one. All of them. There are no exceptions. No student at BYU has any valid justification for whining or complaining about the cost.

No student at BYU is paying for the education of any other student at BYU. No student at BYU is even paying the full cost of his or her own education.

You've presented no evidence whatever that the admissions process at BYU is aristocratic rather than meritocratic.

All you've done is gossip and complain.

My experience is that every student is heavily subsidized (I remember being told during freshman orientation that almost two-thirds of the costs were paid by the church). As for GA children being admitted above others, I would doubt that. The daughter of a GA was in my freshman ward, though she clearly would have preferred to attend another school, but she was a good student, and I doubt very much that she wasn't admitted on merit. I've never seen any evidence whatsoever that anyone was admitted who should not have been. And I agree with Dr. Peterson that a tuition break for these people seems just, given the sacrifice they are making. Back when I was working for the church, I heard from Rex Pinegar that the average GA spent 104 hours a week on church business. Anyone who is willing to give that kind of time deserves a tuition break at the least, I would think.

A friend of mine married the daughter of a GA, and he always referred to the GAs as the royal family, but then he always was a rather cynical person.

[Daniel Peterson]

I agree with you here, however we are not talking about a 'DISCOUNT' what we are talking about is a complete financial educational free ride for the Children of General Authorities, simply by virtue of them holding ironically ecclesiatical rank.

We're talking about the possibility that BYU's already very low and heavily subsidized tuition may be discounted even further for a relative handful of children of General Authorities just as it is discounted for the children of University faculty and staff, or perhaps even altogether waived for that small number of children as it is waived for the spouses of University faculty and staff.

Who knows perhaps the children of general authorities should receive such perks perhaps they were better than the rest of us in the pre-existence? I honestly do not know it's possible I suppose.

It's also possible that the spouses of University faculty and staff can attend the University for free because they were more valiant in the premortal existence. But I've never heard anybody suggest such an inane idea.

All the G.A's I know of and I am supremely sure that most lds would agree have done in life materially very well for themselves, in different capitalist ventures many being materially millionaires or close to it.

Some did very well in private life before becoming General Authorities. Some -- probably most -- come from relatively modest financial circumstances. My friend Bruce Porter was a college professor. So was my friend Spencer Condie. Boyd K. Packer was a supervisor in the Church Education System. President Eyring, Elder Oaks, Elder Holland, Elder Bednar, Elder Hafen -- university administrators. They were scarcely millionaires. (I've been in Elder Packer's home, and I can assure you that he's nowhere near Bill Gates or even Donald Trump.) And other General Authorities come from similar or analogous backgrounds.

Whether they still receive financially what the Brethren refer to as the 'Sty Penn' has never been disclosed and is kept highly confidential from members of the Church.

You seem to resent the leaders of the Church. Rather obsessively.

Why?

And the word is stipend.

Does anyone know if BYU is a tithing funded institution and if so is the education of the Children of General Authorities paid for by members tithing?

The tuition of every student at BYU is largely paid for by tithing.

For some poorer members of the Church who may be living in poverty who pay tithing and also contribute to the Perpetual Education Fund to give opportunities for education to those less fortunate than themselves and who would be willing to cut off their own hands as to get further light and knowledge through education I imagine those people may find this arrangement that exists between the Church and BYU rather discriminatory and a little confusing perhaps.

Do you also suspect that they object to the enormous subsidy given to their own childrens' educations at BYU?

I would be interested in hearing from any posters on this board that have received a completely financially free educational ride at BYU by virtue of them being either friends or family of General Authorities and what their feelings on this matter are?

So your fantastic allegation has now grown to such a degree that not only the children of General Authorities receive this supposed privilege, but that the extended families and even the friends of General Authorities also luxuriate at the expense of Bolivian peasants and Chinese sweatshop laborers?

[John Williams]

Some did very well in private life before becoming General Authorities. Some -- probably most -- come from relatively modest financial circumstances. My friend Bruce Porter was a college professor. So was my friend Spencer Condie. Boyd K. Packer was a supervisor in the Church Education System. President Eyring, Elder Oaks, Elder Holland, Elder Bednar, Elder Hafen -- university administrators. They were scarcely millionaires. (I've been in Elder Packer's home, and I can assure you that he's nowhere near Bill Gates or even Donald Trump.) And other General Authorities come from similar or analogous backgrounds.

I used to ride the bus from the COB to Provo with Spencer Condie. Absolutely lovely man and, just as you point out, not exactly wealthy. One of the criticisms of the "brethren" I find completely off-base is the idea that they are getting rich off their church service. Hardly. At a point in their lives when they should be enjoying their grandchildren and golfing, they are spending long weeks away from home on church business. And the "sty penn" (that made me laugh out loud) is hardly just compensation for what they do.

[ed2276]

And the word is stipend.

The tuition of every student at BYU is largely paid for by tithing.

It is? I didn't know that. I am taking university credit courses through BYU Independent Study and had to pay from my checking account with my debit card. How do I get a refund and have my account settled with tithing monies.

BTW , I agree , tuition is very inexpensive for a university of BYU's calibre.