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The chapels are not safe

Notatbm

By Notatbm
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Notatbm Rising Star

Notatbm

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Another murder at a funeral in Utah today. What is the deal with the Tongan’s? Does the church need to provide armed security at meetinghouses where Tongans attend? Since January this is homicide number two at an lds funeral. 
 

sad

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The Nehor Grand Master

The Nehor

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1 hour ago, Notatbm said:

Another murder at a funeral in Utah today. What is the deal with the Tongan’s? Does the church need to provide armed security at meetinghouses where Tongans attend? Since January this is homicide number two at an lds funeral. 
 

sad

Yes. Your racism is very sad.

Notatbm Rising Star

Notatbm

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9 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Yes. Your racism is very sad

 

tell us how to address it if the security and policing isn’t directed at who is murdering people. I suppose everyone else but the Tongans should get the additional security and police attention as we wouldn’t want them to get offended … or you for that matter. 

This is a Tongan-specific gang issue where the participants happen to be Mormon as well.  Enforcement should be focused on the problem, not what makes you feel good. 
 

This should be interesting to watch how the church handles this. I predict they will do nothing and this will continue in some form…and that would be racism to not protect them and root out the troublemakers. Maybe there are a certain amount of casualties among the Tongan members the church leadership will be ok with. 
 

 

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webbles Grand Master

webbles

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Another article https://www.deseret.com/utah/2026/08/18/father-of-teen-shot-at-kearns-funeral-arrested-for-investigation-of-murder/

This one describes what the police think happened.

Quote

One witness told investigators that she was attending the funeral and went outside, where she saw Manatau’s son and another male fighting. That’s when witnesses say Manatau pulled out a gun and gave it to his son, who shot the person he was fighting, according to the affidavit. Another witness told police that the son took the gun from his father, “racked it, and … shot twice,” striking the person he was fighting both times.

A second male reacted by going after the 17-year-old son after his friend was shot, knocked him down and the gun out of his hand, took the gun and used it to shoot the 17-year-old son twice, according to police.

What kind of dad hands a gun to his kid to shoot another person?

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Pyreaux Grand Master

Pyreaux

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Notatbm said:

tell us how to address it if the security and policing isn’t directed at who is murdering people. I suppose everyone else but the Tongans should get the additional security and police attention as we wouldn’t want them to get offended … or you for that matter. 

This is a Tongan-specific gang issue where the participants happen to be Mormon as well.  Enforcement should be focused on the problem, not what makes you feel good. 
 

This should be interesting to watch how the church handles this. I predict they will do nothing and this will continue in some form…and that would be racism to not protect them and root out the troublemakers. Maybe there are a certain amount of casualties among the Tongan members the church leadership will be ok with. 

Attempting to mediate here. Your pattern recognition of gang activity within a specific demographic risks generalizing an entire ethnic demographic. What you seem to be proposing is racial profiling, and for entire communities to be treated as security threats, all based on the actions of specific criminal groups or individuals.

If threat management is the goal, applying heavy security solely based on ethnic attendance creates significant legal and social friction without necessarily stopping targeted acts of violence.

Like many non-Tongan gangs, gangs sometimes utilize neutral community venues, such as funerals, weddings, or religious services for targeted retaliation, knowing the targets will be present and off-guard. This is an issue seen across various cultural gang networks. Rather than targeting Tongans, look for specific high-risk events, such as funerals involving individuals with known gang affiliations or recent violent conflicts.

Your critique of church leadership assumes potential institutional apathy or a hesitation to act due to public relations concerns. The Church, like many organizations, generally relies on local law enforcement for active security threats rather than maintaining armed private security forces. Local leaders typically coordinate directly with local police. Working directly with local police gang units to identify high-risk events prior to scheduling, allowing for discreet or visible law enforcement presence during services.

I believe there are more Church policy updates coming, like evaluating security guidelines for facility access, off-duty officer hiring for special events, and local leader training for threat de-escalation.

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Rain Grand Master

Rain

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59 minutes ago, webbles said:

Another article https://www.deseret.com/utah/2026/08/18/father-of-teen-shot-at-kearns-funeral-arrested-for-investigation-of-murder/

This one describes what the police think happened.

What kind of dad hands a gun to his kid to shoot another person?

It's all so heartbreaking what happens with these families.  Someone in my family had a baby with a gang member.  What we have heard of his father (gang member in a high position) leads me to believe he would also hand his gun to his son.  His poor grandma tried to raise him well, but the influence of his dad was just too much. And that affects many of my family even though they have never had contact with the dad. 

But we have not dealt with anything like happened in this story. I think that may be the double chapel building that I am familiar with so there are a lot of people that go there.  Even people who don't know those involved in the shooting will likely be affected just going to church or attending more funerals.

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Notatbm Rising Star

Notatbm

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This gets even more interesting as apparently the funeral service was for a guy who had been shot and killed at a gas station a few weeks ago. According to the news he went into the gas station to buy alcohol and the clerk refused to sell to him for some reason. He got upset and came back with a shotgun. There was an armed citizen inside who shot and killed him. Pretty crazy. And now we have people at his own funeral waving guns around and shooting people. Amazing we have these kind of people in our congregations. 

webbles Grand Master

webbles

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5 hours ago, Notatbm said:

This gets even more interesting as apparently the funeral service was for a guy who had been shot and killed at a gas station a few weeks ago. According to the news he went into the gas station to buy alcohol and the clerk refused to sell to him for some reason. He got upset and came back with a shotgun. There was an armed citizen inside who shot and killed him. Pretty crazy. And now we have people at his own funeral waving guns around and shooting people. Amazing we have these kind of people in our congregations. 

It doesn't seem like the people who were involved in the shooting were there for the funeral.  Or at least, that's how the news articles read to me.  One of the articles mentioned how the police don't believe there is any relation.  So just bad coincidence.

Notatbm Rising Star

Notatbm

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22 minutes ago, webbles said:

It doesn't seem like the people who were involved in the shooting were there for the funeral.  Or at least, that's how the news articles read to me.  One of the articles mentioned how the police don't believe there is any relation.  So just bad coincidence.

Where are you reading that the people involved were not there for the funeral? Sure an odd place for two warring gangs to bump into each other and start shooting.

 

webbles Grand Master

webbles

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6 minutes ago, Notatbm said:

Where are you reading that the people involved were not there for the funeral? Sure an odd place for two warring gangs to bump into each other and start shooting.

 

The first one I linked to - https://www.deseret.com/utah/2026/08/17/1-dead-2-critically-injured-in-kearns-funeral-shooting/

Quote

Although it was still in the early phase of the investigation, Hoyal said police believed the shooting was an isolated event that took place outside of the church where the funeral was being held.

 

Calm Grand Master

Calm

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38 minutes ago, Notatbm said:

Hmm and the attendees at the funeral and the warring gangs just so happened to both be Tongan. Pretty odd coincidence

In Utah if using the chapel for a funeral, you tend to live in the same neighborhood.  Gangs can overlap the same neighborhood surely?

A church parking lot is an easy gathering place whether one is there or not for church.  Our chapel parking lot in CA was a school bus stop and often where people carpooling would meet as they headed up to the freeway.  I suspect very few parking there were LDS.  It was the only place to park safely on that somewhat long stretch….think there was also an empty lot at the intersection with the freeway (or the road that went to the freeway, should doublecheck the map).  1/3 of the kids waiting for the bus were LDS for high school because of seminary.  Just me for junior high because we lived down the street.

added:  memory was right, it was the freeway.  They have a Caltrans Park and Ride there now.  The busstop by the Church is even officially marked.  Only one on the road…which wasn’t as long as I remembered it, but very wooded.  I would always get lost driving around up there in my dreams, lol.  The Church parking lot is really the best meeting place in the area with easy access to the freeway.  The rest of the road is residential except for a little fruit stand.

Edited by Calm
Notatbm Rising Star

Notatbm

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17 minutes ago, Calm said:

In Utah if using the chapel for a funeral, you tend to live in the same neighborhood.  Gangs can overlap the same neighborhood surely?

A church parking lot is an easy gathering place whether one is there or not for church.  Our chapel parking lot in CA was a school bus stop and often where people carpooling would meet as they headed up to the freeway.  I suspect very few parking there were LDS.  It was the only place to park safely on that somewhat long stretch….think there was also an empty lot at the intersection with the freeway (or the road that went to the freeway, should doublecheck the map).  1/3 of the kids waiting for the bus were LDS for high school because of seminary.  Just me for junior high because we lived down the street.

added:  memory was right, it was the freeway.  They have a Caltrans Park and Ride there now.  The busstop by the Church is even officially marked.  Only one on the road…which is even longer than I remembered it.  I would always get lost driving around up there in my dreams, lol.  The Church parking lot is really the best meeting place in the area with easy access to the freeway.  The rest of the road is residential except for a little fruit stand.

Yea that’s plausible.. I’m assuming they are all Mormons tho right? Or at least mostly? 

Calm Grand Master

Calm

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7 minutes ago, Notatbm said:

Yea that’s plausible.. I’m assuming they are all Mormons tho right? Or at least mostly? 

Have no clue.  Family probably originally was, but many have been here for several generations (started coming in the 1920s, really established in the 1950s).  Not all who came were LDS converts though.

https://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=52551592&itype=cmsid

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She says the first Tongan immigrants to Utah were Mormon converts who came to live among fellow Mormons, but later brought family and friends of all religions to take advantage of educational and economic opportunities. And she says Tongans who migrated first to other states such as California and Hawaii found that Utah is cheaper and has a lifestyle pace that they like better….

Many coming from the islands first go to California or Hawaii, but often end up in Utah. "I am one who moved from California. The pace is slower here. It's a better place to raise a family," she said. And she adds the Tongans moving are not just Mormons, and that her group works with 20 denominations.

With all the Tongans in Utah, Queen Mother Halaevalu Mata'aho of Tonga recently visited to rededicate the Tongan United Methodist Church in West Valley City. She and her late husband, King Aufa'ahau Tupou IV, attended the original dedication in 2004.

 

Edited by Calm
Calm Grand Master

Calm

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https://www.sltrib.com/news/2026/08/17/kearns-shooting-1-killed-2-injured/

Quote

Police were asked by funeral attendees to be present at the service, which took place at a Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints building at 4660 W. 5015 South, Unified Police Department Assistant Chief Justin Hoyal said in a news conference.

Chat claimed the funeral was for a gang member, but I am not seeing that in the links it gave me, so could have made it up. Maybe mixed up with previous shooting?  

You don’t have to be LDS to use our chapels for funerals, but the family likely were imo.  Now gang members being active or devout…that is more debatable.  Iirc, one of the people involved in the previous case had spoken at the funeral and then went outside to smoke…again doesn’t mean not active and devout as we had a neighbour who had reactivated, but struggled with a smoking addiction, beat it too eventually, but it took its toll, died recently.  Good guy.  Still someone smoking or being in a gang…bet that links with a significant drop in activity level

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Tony uk Mentor

Tony uk

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Just a thought. Maybe one gang may have known/suspected that the other gang may have been attending the funeral, and decided to be present.

Rain Grand Master

Rain

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4 hours ago, Notatbm said:

Hmm and the attendees at the funeral and the warring gangs just so happened to both be Tongan. Pretty odd coincidence

It has been 20 years since I lived there, but when I did, if this is the double chapel I was thinking of it is where at least 1 Tongan ward met. I can't remember if there was another Tongan ward or maybe a Samoan ward too as we had quite a few Tongans and Samoans who lived there, but I think there were 2 Tongan wards at that chapel.

And yes, some parts of that area were pretty rough, and it wasn't just Tongans. So no, I don't think it is odd.

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