GA Church Historian apology for his racist comments

[Calm]

19 minutes ago, longview said:

It was NOT cultural misappropriation. I have seen congregations consisting of all races joyfully singing together with full fervor, emotion, and dancing with unrestrained gyrations. That was a wonderful kind of unity promoting greater harmony and love.

You really think the criticism was about cultural misappropriation?

Did you miss the repetition of the caricature?

Edited June 23 by Calm

[longview]

4 minutes ago, Calm said:

You really think it was about cultural misappropriation?

 

This was the impression I was getting reading the "outrage" of Okrahomer and Nehor. I was wondering why couldn't ANY race emulate each other's traditions. In the case of Hillary, it was plainly obvious that she was "dumbing" herself down in order to ingratiate herself with the "victim class" but it crashed like a lead balloon. I have no doubt that the black congregation was silently embarrassed by her antics.

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, longview said:

Very much so. For the reasons I outlined. That black congregation did NOT need to be talked down to in such a condescending manner.

My distinct impression was that he was actually celebrating black culture and traditions. It was NOT cultural misappropriation. I have seen congregations consisting of all races joyfully singing together with full fervor, emotion, and dancing with unrestrained gyrations. That was a wonderful kind of unity promoting greater harmony and love.

That is a disgusting rationale. I don’t think you even really believe it. I think this is that short circuit in human reasoning that automatically and irrationally defends anything someone makes a part of their core identity.

If you flipped the script and the Seventy had said what Hillary did and Hillary said what the Seventy did I think you would still find what the Seventy said unobjectionable and what Hillary said to be racist and horrible. Racism isn’t something someone does or believes. Instead it is something that bad people are so only bad people can be racist. Since you have categorized already who is bad and who is good it is easy to define who is racist. Not based on their actions but by whose side they are on.

This is how racism is often obscured but it only works on those who desperately want to be gullible fools.

1 hour ago, longview said:

The Seventy may have mocked his own shortcomings in not being as savvy and as cool as the average black congregant. He is to be applauded for reaching out in admiration and good will.

So not only was it not bad it was in fact good and he was doing a good thing and has racist caricature was somehow an expression of admiration and good will which somehow managed to offend the people it was supposed to be admiring? This is incredibly gross. Be better.

1 hour ago, longview said:

Hillary was deeply cynical and manipulative. The Seventy was showing genuine appreciation for the contributions of black culture. Don't ALL races love and appreciate signing Amazing Grace? I know I do, with as much fervor as I can (in spite of my shyness).

The Seventy was doing no such thing and how does singing a hymn together somehow make racist caricatures okay?

Gross. What would it take to make you think that racist caricature was bad? If he had put on blackface would you still be defending it?

 

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, longview said:

This was the impression I was getting reading the "outrage" of Okrahomer and Nehor. I was wondering why couldn't ANY race emulate each other's traditions. In the case of Hillary, it was plainly obvious that she was "dumbing" herself down in order to ingratiate herself with the "victim class" but it crashed like a lead balloon. I have no doubt that the black congregation was silently embarrassed by her antics.

The impression you got? You didn’t even read the account of what happened. Oy vey.

Can you drop the stupid irrelevant Hillary thing? It is clear you think it is somehow exonerating this guy somehow but it really just makes you look ridiculous.

Edited June 23 by The Nehor

[Calm]

3 hours ago, longview said:

I was wondering why couldn't ANY race emulate each other's traditions.

And how is mimicking someone doing a bad job of what he thought was pretending to be a slave emulating another’s traditions (this is how he described it himself, see below)?  Serious question as I am trying to understand your thought process on this.

Quote

The historian briefly reenacted how he said the local leader had performed the hymn, attempting an accent supposedly reflective of a 19th-century Black man. 

“I wanted to turn to him and say, ‘You know you’re white,’” McKay said. “And he would say, ‘No, I’m an African slave, is what I am, and I’m singing ‘Suwannee River’” (a reference to an American folk and minstrel song).

From the link in the first post.

Edited June 23 by Calm

[longview]

10 hours ago, The Nehor said:

That is a disgusting rationale. I don’t think you even really believe it.

I have outlined my observations and do genuinely stand by them. My convictions are honed by many years of overview and cross-referencing which do strengthen my perspectives.

10 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I think this is that short circuit in human reasoning that automatically and irrationally defends anything someone makes a part of their core identity.

Sometimes you behave like a court jester in the court of king Æthelred the Unready.

10 hours ago, The Nehor said:

If you flipped the script and the Seventy had said what Hillary did and Hillary said what the Seventy did I think you would still find what the Seventy said unobjectionable and what Hillary said to be racist and horrible.

No way would the Seventy talk like an ebonics-speaking dolt. He would be MOST gracious for having been invited to meet with the black congregation and sharing many common experiences. Not likely would he sing at the pulpit but most certainly would sing WITH the congregation. For sure clap with them and even attempt at some "gyrations".

I can easily imagine Hillary wanting to sing by herself or with the congregation just so long as she does NOT caricature or pretend to be part of the "victim class" or pander to the lowest common denomiator.

[Calm]

2 hours ago, longview said:

No way would the Seventy talk like an ebonics-speaking dolt

So while he intentionally (at the moment) talked like an African slave from the stand, he would never have used Ebonics when mimicking if that was what his friend was using? (I agree he probably won’t now given the reaction to his mimicking).

Edited June 23 by Calm

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, longview said:

I have outlined my observations and do genuinely stand by them. My convictions are honed by many years of overview and cross-referencing which do strengthen my perspectives.

Word salad.

2 hours ago, longview said:

Sometimes you behave like a court jester in the court of king Æthelred the Unready.

I don’t think you know what court jesters do if you think that is an insult.

2 hours ago, longview said:

No way would the Seventy talk like an ebonics-speaking dolt.

Did you even read what the Seventy actually said?

2 hours ago, longview said:

He would be MOST gracious for having been invited to meet with the black congregation and sharing many common experiences. Not likely would he sing at the pulpit but most certainly would sing WITH the congregation. For sure clap with them and even attempt at some "gyrations".

Now you are just making up fanfiction. You’ve decided that the Seventy CAN’T do that because that would be bad. They can’t do bad things because they are the good guys! Therefore if what they do appears to be bad it must actually be good.

This allows you to excuse lots of bad behavior and even active evil. This is standard Soviet-style “whataboutism”.

You aren’t talking about what happened. You are imagining what you think should have happened. You and reality aren’t even in the same zip code.

2 hours ago, longview said:

I can easily imagine Hillary wanting to sing by herself or with the congregation just so long as she does NOT caricature or pretend to be part of the "victim class" or pander to the lowest common denomiator.

Hillary Clinton must enjoy living rent-free in your head day in and day out as the embodiment of evil.

Edited June 23 by The Nehor

[Tacenda]

I wish there was a video of this talk, I'm sure a lot could be understood to see it in context.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

I wish there was a video of this talk, I'm sure a lot could be understood to see it in context.

But of me wishes that and part of me really, really hope there’s not one in existence. 

[Duncan]

2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I wish there was a video of this talk, I'm sure a lot could be understood to see it in context.

 

[Calm]

Not quite so bad as I was expecting (minimal mimicking), but if that was all his friend had done, why the heck did he go to “African slave” rather than just gospel singer or just Black even.  The song itself wasn’t written until the 1920’s or later.   There is more to Black cultural heritage than just slavery.  
 

From just this clip so I may be way off, I don’t remember if I have heard him speak before….he’s not a natural speaker or storyteller.  Too much in his head, it seems to me.   My guess is his wit isn’t in storytelling or jokes, but spontaneous observations.  Those type of people should avoid telling jokes and keep to heartfelt sentiments of gratitude, enjoying being there, even being vulnerable about nervousness.  Brief and not convicted remarks to stumble over.  

Edited June 24 by Calm

[Calm]

He’s given two conference talks.  To those who want to see a fuller picture, here’s a link:

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/speakers/kyle-s-mckay?lang=eng
 

He’s been a Seventy since 2018.  I am a bit surprised his voice was stressed so much, or so it seemed to me.  His delivery was much smoother from the beginning in both of his talks.  Maybe he doesn’t typically tell jokes, but his humorous anecdote about his son was done well enough.  Or maybe he got to practice more.  

Edited June 24 by Calm

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, Duncan said:

 

And you provided it, thanks, I couldn't find one. 

 

 

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Not quite so bad as I was expecting (minimal mimicking), but if that was all his friend had done, why the heck did he go to “African slave” rather than just gospel singer or just Black even.  The song itself wasn’t written until the 1920’s or later.   There is more to Black cultural heritage than just slavery.  
 

From just this clip so I may be way off, I don’t remember if I have heard him speak before….he’s not a natural speaker or storyteller.  Too much in his head, it seems to me.   My guess is his wit isn’t in storytelling or jokes, but spontaneous observations.  Those type of people should avoid telling jokes and keep to heartfelt sentiments of gratitude, enjoying being there, even being vulnerable about nervousness.  Brief and not convicted remarks to stumble over.  

Calm, I think the second counselor said he's singing it like an African slave. But I could go back and watch again.

[Tacenda]

This is my take on it. I think the second counselor was correct and Elder McKay should apologize to the second counselor, for crying out loud! I googled the origins of the song and this is what came up:

C/P'd: (pay attention to the bold, it's basically written out just like the second counselor sang it!!!)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is about the gospel song. For the LZ7 song, see This Little Light. For album by Kyle, see Light of Mine.

This Little Light of Mine

by Harry Dixon Loes

GenreGospel

Written1920s

Based onMatthew 5:14-16
Mark 4:21-22
Luke 11:33

"This Little Light of Mine" is an American gospel song that originated in the 1920s, when it was first sung in Christian churches and penitentiaries.[1] The hymn is often attributed to evangelist Harry Dixon Loes who is said to have written it for children, using the biblical passage about the lamp under a bushel as inspiration.[2] However, researchers at the Moody Bible Institute said they found no evidence that he wrote it, though they noted that Loes did create the popular arrangement of the hymn in the 1940s.[3][4] The gospel song became popular among African-American Christians,[5] and it was later adapted by Zilphia Horton, amongst many other activists, in connection with the civil rights movement.[6] "This Little Light of Mine" is printed in the hymnals of various Christian denominations.[2]

History

The origin of the song is unclear, but the phrase "This little light of mine" appears published in poetry by 1925 by Edward G. Ivins, a writer in Montana.[7][8] In 1931, the song is mentioned in a Los Angeles newspaper as "Deaconess Anderson's song".[9][10] In 1932, the song was mentioned in a 1932 Missouri newspaper.[11] In 1933, the song was mentioned in newspapers as being sung by a chorus at an African Methodist Episcopal conference in Helena, Montana, and then various other churches around the United States later that year.[12][13][14] In June 1934 John and Alan Lomax made its earliest known recording, of Jim Boyd of Jacksonville, Texas, singing at the State Penitentiary in Huntsville, Texas.[15][16] In 1939 Lomax returned to Texas with Ruby Lomax during their Southern States Recording Trip and recorded the song again. This song and others were sung by a black woman, Doris McMurray[17] who was imprisoned at Thomas Goree Unit in Texas and said that she learned the song from her grandmother in Waco.[18] She sang the following lyrics, taught to her by her grandmother:

This little light o' mine, I'm goin' let it shine

Let it shine, let it shine, let it shine.
Ev'rywhere I go, I'm goin' let it shine (repeat)
Let it shine, let it shine, let it shine, let it shine, let it shine.
In my neighbor's home, I'm goin' let it shine (repeat)

Let it shine, let it shine, let it shine.

Many other verses have been added over the years, including impromptu lines appropriate to the occasion. The song is sung around the world, with the simple lyrics and tune resonating with all ages. Harry Dixon Loes, who studied at the Moody Bible Institute and the American Conservatory of Music, was a musical composer and teacher, who wrote or co-wrote several other gospel songs. He wrote a popular adaptation of the song "This Little Light of Mine" in the 1940s but never copyrighted or claimed credit for writing the original, which remains of unknown origin.[19]

Often thought of as an African-American spiritual, it can be found in modern hymnals such as The United Methodist Hymnal, #585,[20] adapted by William Farley Smith in 1987, and in the Unitarian Universalist Hymn Book, Singing the Living Tradition, #118, with harmonies by Horace Clarence Boyer.[21] The song does not appear in any of the major nineteenth-century collections of African American songs.

While the song is most widely recognized as an African American spiritual, over the years it has been transformed into a song of resistance adopted by Civil Rights Movements.[22] With such joyful and hopeful lyrics, "This Little Light of Mine" brought unification and strength to social movements, allowing oppressed groups to reinforce their shared identity and communicate their demands for equity.[23] Freedom Singing, a congressional style of singing that often uses church hymns as a form of resistance in social protests, was quite common especially during the Civil Right Movement in the 1960's. Rutha Mae Harris, one of the four original freedom singers from Georgia, said the song "helped steady protestors' nerves as abusive police officers threatened to beat them or worse." Singing this exuberant, spiritual song also helped to deescalate the tension and agitation during the protests.[22]

Theme

The hymn "This Little Light of Mine" takes its theme from Jesus's remarks to his followers in the Parable of the Lamp under a Bushel.[2] Matthew 5:14-16 of the King James Version gives: "Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light shine before men, that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven." The parallel passage in Luke 11:33 of the King James Version gives: "No man, when he hath lighted a candle, putteth it in a secret place, neither under a bushel, but on a candlestick, that they which come in may see the light."[24]

Edited June 24 by Tacenda

[Calm]

28 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Calm, I think the second counselor said he's singing it like an African slave. But I could go back and watch again.

No, the Seventy imagined the conversation he would have had with his friend about the way he was singing, his friend was just singing in an unexpected to him way.  He wanted to turn to him and comment, but he didn’t (probably because they were in a meeting and then he forgot about it till the song came to his mind for the talk).

Quote

I wanted to turn to him and say, ‘You know you’re white,’” McKay said. “And he would say, ‘No, I’m an African slave, is what I am, and I’m singing ‘Suwannee River’” (a reference to an American folk and minstrel song).

And he’s imagining what his friend would say.  

I got to wonder if his friend is annoyed with him and telling him that no way would he (the friend) have gone there, he was just singing the song like he had heard others sing it or some such thing.  

Edited June 24 by Calm

[Calm]

9 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

think the second counselor was correct. I

In how he sang it?  More than likely.  It is not just Black choirs that sing it that way.  Pretty sure we sang it as kids, must have been in school as it wouldn’t have been played on the radio stations I listened to back then, lol, and I learned it somewhere.

It’s a great song to sing along to.  
 

I think this is the version from the Church that was released when it was announced as a new hymn.  This is sung with power and heart. 
 

Edited June 24 by Calm

[Tacenda]

19 minutes ago, Calm said:

No, the Seventy imagined the conversation he would have had with his friend about the way he was singing, his friend was just singing in an expected to him way.  He wanted to turn to him, but he didn’t (probably because they were in a meeting and then he forgot about it till the song came to his mind for the talk).

And he’s imagining what his friend would say.  

I got to wonder if his friend is annoyed with him and telling him that no way would he (the friend) have gone there, he was just singing the song like he had heard others sing it or some such thing.  

That friend deserves an apology for sure, he shouldn't have been talked about in public like that for what he did at all. He had the spirit. Pres McKay (?), not so much. ETA: Thanks for clarifying the imagined conversation. 

Edited June 24 by Tacenda

[Tacenda]

1 minute ago, Calm said:

In how he sang it?  More than likely.  It is not just Black choirs that sing it that way.  Pretty sure we sang it as kids, must have been in school as it wouldn’t have been played on the radio stations I listened to back then, lol, and I learned it somewhere.

It’s a great song to sing along to.  

Yes, because in the wiki article it's spelled: This little light o' mine, I'm goin' let it shine. 

[Tacenda]

deleted

Edited June 24 by Tacenda

[Calm]

There is a problem with using Old Folks at Home as an African American heritage song.  It was written by Steven Foster who had never been to Florida it seems and was just looking for a two syllable name to fit the melody according to Goggle.  Worse, it was written to be performed by a blackface minstrel group.

At least his intention was positive, but delivery was not respectful since it looks like he just made stuff up about the dialect used.

Quote

“Old folks at home” is currently still the state song of Florida (due to its references to the Suwannee River), however, the most obviously problematic things about the song have been eliminated through the removal of dialect and the replacement of the word “darkies” with “brothers.” However, the line “still longing for the old plantation” continues to be clear and present in the first verse. 

Based on letters from Stephen Foster to E. P. Christy, Foster wanted his “tragic” minstrel songs (such as “Old folks at home”) to inspire feelings of pity and compassion for slaves, rather than the ridicule resulting from most minstrel shows at the time. Could Foster’s intentions ever come true through this piece intended for blackface performance, which by nature mocks the experience of enslaved people in America? Only a further exploration of primary sources could tell.

https://pages.stolaf.edu/americanmusic/2021/12/08/stephen-fosters-intent-and-impact-with-old-folks-at-home/
 

Layers of wrong here by not checking actual history before making the joke (the song is presented as being sung by a slave).   Also wonder if Brother McKay knows the lyrics given the first verse includes the lovely longing for de old plantation line:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Folks_at_Home

Quote

Way down upon de Swanee ribber, Far, far away, Dere's wha my heart is turning ebber, Dere's wha de old folks stay. All up and down de whole creation Sadly I roam, Still longing for de old plantation, And for de old folks at home.

 

[Tacenda]

On 6/16/2026 at 12:02 PM, Calm said:

It didn’t register with me that he “reenacted” his friend’s singing the first time I read it, I think because I would not expect that in anything but a casual conversation or comedic routine.  It’s easy to miss stuff because of our expectations.  I try to remember to read things twice before reacting, but sometimes I have read things several times and still missed something crucial. 

I find my spelling is sloppy these days, too much reliance on autocorrect.

I have such short term memory, forgot about this comment.

[Calm]

21 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

That friend deserves an apology for sure, he shouldn't have been talked about in public like that for what he did at all. He had the spirit. Pres McKay (?), not so much. ETA: Thanks for clarifying the imagined conversation. 

And the style of the two songs are very different, one slow, the other very upbeat, so got to wonder why they got connected in Brother McKay’s head. 

[Calm]

1 minute ago, Tacenda said:

I have such short term memory, forgot about this comment.

Same problem here.