Shooting at church in Grand Blanc Michigan. Pray

[ZealouslyStriving]

1 minute ago, Calm said:

No, just struggling to understand today.

When many of our people engage in theological and/or political discussions, if they even hint at some type of staunch pushback our enemies have learned that they can accuse them of "contention" and they will immediately back down. We have to stop that and be MORE like the Church, not completely misinterpreting counsel on being peacemakers to mean we never dare make another person feel uncomfortable.

I hope that clarifies it a little.

[Calm]

My husband just passed this on to me with a big grin (my husband is about the sweetest and most gentle soul I know).  He is also a big sports fan, though some of his diehard support has been shifted to UVU from BYU due to knowing the coaches and players better now after two decades as a professor there and now one of bus drivers for the teams….plus the cost of tickets and the hassle of parking these days.

https://www.ksl.com/article/51383254/colorado-fined-reprimanded-for-inappropriate-chants-against-byu

Quote

A precedent has been set for Big 12 teams that continue to use a profane chant directed at BYU and members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints moving forward.

The Big 12 announced Tuesday morning that it has levied a $50,000 fine and publicly reprimanded the University of Colorado for the use of what it called an "inappropriate" chant by several fans about the Cougars and its sponsoring institution.

The chant, one of at least six that has spread across the country during BYU football and men's basketball games since 2021, could be heard over the ESPN broadcast on at least one occasion, with some half-dozen attempts at calls for "(expletive) BYU" and "(expletive) the Mormons" easily audible among the fans at Folsom Field during then-No. 25 BYU's 24-21 win over the Buffaloes.

The Big 12 referred to the chant as a violation of the league's principles and standards of sportsmanship, officials said in a short statement released Tuesday morning. Colorado's chancellor and athletic director apologized and condemned the "expletives and religious slurs" used during the game in a statement late Sunday night.

"Hateful and discriminatory language has no home in the Big 12 Conference," Big 12 commissioner Brett Yormark said. "While we appreciate Colorado apologizing for the chants that occurred in the stands during Saturday's game, the Big 12 maintains zero tolerance for such behavior."

Colorado athletic director Rick George released a statement in response to the league action saying the school "respect the conference's decision, and we take responsibility for the behavior exhibited at the game."

"On behalf of our athletic department and the university, I want to apologize to BYU and the entire Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints community," he said. "Chancellor Schwartz and I also apologized personally to our counterparts at BYU on Saturday night and again on Sunday.

I think I will start a new thread, though thought it was relevant to this subtopic.

Edited September 30, 2025 by Calm

[bsjkki]

Just now, Calm said:

My husband just passed this on to me with a big grin (my husband is about the sweetest and most gentle soul I know).  He is also a big sports fan, though some of his diehard support has been shifted to UVU from BYU due to knowing the coaches and players better now after two decades as a professor there and now one of bus drivers for the teams….plus the cost of tickets and the hassle of parking these days.

https://www.ksl.com/article/51383254/colorado-fined-reprimanded-for-inappropriate-chants-against-byu

 

I was very happy with the fine. Coach Prime gave a nice apology too. 

[InCognitus]

34 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I can see her point. At the same time, though if he had released three separate statements, I think they would’ve gotten lost in the shuffle. I don’t think any news source would cover all three, for one thing.

The "church" issued a separate statement on the Michigan shooting (Statement on Violence at a Chapel in Grand Blanc, Michigan), but the statement from Elder Oaks encompasses all those experiencing loss and heartache at this time (Statement from Dallin H. Oaks, President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles), which I see as being for two separate purposes. 

[bsjkki]

Michigan plus Charlie Kirk have changed my algorithm on X. Instead just politics all the time it’s now politics/church. 
 

It may be a mentally healthier mix. 

[Calm]

2 hours ago, JVW said:

Well, I told my wife about this statement as she hadn't heard about it by last night. She read it and now she is so mad she's seriously considering leaving the church. Just goes to show how different people can view things differently as I thought it was a pretty safe, nice type of statement. Her points were as follows:

- Why couldn't he have made separate statements? Why lump in grieving for President Nelson with this tragic event in Michigan?

- "We mourn with our members who have lost loved ones, and we join in prayer for comfort with others around the world who are suffering from similar tragedies." This was the line that really did her in.

It was an act of terror that directly impacted our church and was in a very specific place and he couldn't make a statement specifically for those people. There is no condemnation of the attack. The event is tragic, but it's addressed in the context of President Nelson's passing and other generic terror attacks that occur worldwide. She thinks it would have been better for him to do separate messages. A message of mourning for Nelson. A message of condemnation and support for the saints impacted in Michigan. And a message of support and prayer for those worldwide who are suffering from "similar tragedies" and "all others who may be experiencing loss and heartache at this time" (i.e. nearly everyone in existence around the world).

I think she makes a pretty good point. And I can't say that I blame her for being upset by this response.

I have gotten very frustrated at times when a church statement is more generic than I would prefer.  I too wish there was a separate message from Pres Oaks for Pres Nelson, when we should be focused on celebrating his life while the horror of the shooting takes us in a very different direction and would be better separate as it needs a different direction of counseling (death and losing loved ones is definitely not one size fits all).  Grateful to see a separate message from the Church about the shooting and of course there are many announcements specifically about Pres. Nelson.  But something specifically from Pres Oaks given it’s in a transtion period….maybe that’s needed.

I wonder how much time would be required if the President of the Church responded to this level of tragedy for every region around the world.  The US is often violent plus there are plenty of other tragedies here, but there are also countries with more numerous tragedies.  Then there is the political issues.  Having lived in Russia for a short time 30 years ago and having therefore paid closer attention to it over the years, I don’t think members would be helped by increased public announcements even if simply consoling victims and families and not laying blame.  Of course, this was a bit more personal…church members targeted for being church members and much less common.

If there is concern about helping our global members feel a part of things, then I would prefer giving equal time in specific announcements ending with a more global tone.  I know they have newsrooms for other parts of the world and they are good at coordinating, so it seems possible though would commit more time of top leaders to public speaking…but they are doing that already with social media inspirational notes.  This could help members feel like they are getting (as a region) more personal attention from apostles and the First Presidency.  I remember being in Canada and not hearing very much at all from SL about things important to Canadian members like in the US.  Given the numbers of church members and the networking and culture, members can influence government policy, etc a lot more in the US than in most other places and it can help avoid less than friendly attention from less welcoming governments, but there may be the unintentional consequence of nonUS members feeling they don’t matter as much.

Still it seems like sawing off the branch you are sitting on*** to consider leaving the Church over it.  If it’s an error, it’s the leader’s error, why make it a personal burden and lose out on the blessings of membership?

***thought a different idiom than the one originally used would be better and this actually fits better to what I mean

Edited September 30, 2025 by Calm

[bsjkki]

 

[ZealouslyStriving]

15 minutes ago, Calm said:

I have gotten very frustrated at times when a church statement is more generic than I would prefer.  I too wish there was a separate message from Pres Oaks for Pres Nelson, when we should be focused on celebrating his life while the horror of the shooting takes us in a very different direction and would be better separate as it needs a different direction of counseling (death and losing loved ones is definitely not one size fits all).  Grateful to see a separate message from the Church about the shooting and of course there are many announcements specifically about Pres. Nelson.  But something specifically from Pres Oaks given it’s in a transtion period….maybe that’s needs.

I wonder how much time would be required if the President of the Church responded to this level of tragedy for every region around the world.  The US is more violent plus there are plenty of other tragedies here, but there are also countries with more numerous tragedies.  Then there is the political issues.  Having lived in Russia for a short time 30 years ago and having therefore paid closer attention to it over the years, I don’t think members would be helped by increased public announcements even if simply consoling victims and families and not laying blame.  Of course, this was a bit more personal…church members targeted for being church members and much less common.

If there is concern about helping our global members feel a part of things, then I would prefer giving equal time in specific announcements ending with a more global tone.  I know they have newsrooms for other parts of the world and they are good at coordinating, so it seems possible though would commit more time of top leaders to public speaking…but they are doing that already with social media inspirational notes.  This could help members feel like they are getting (as a region) more personal attention from apostles and the First Presidency.  I remember being in Canada and not hearing very much at all from SL about things important to Canadian members like in the US.  Given the numbers of church members and the networking and culture, members can influence government policy, etc a lot more in the US than in most other places and it can help avoid less than friendly attention from less welcoming governments, but there may be the unintentional consequence of nonUS members feeling they don’t matter as much.

Still it seems like shooting oneself in the foot to consider leaving the Church over it.  If it’s an error, it’s the leader’s error, why make it a personal burden and lose out on the blessings of membership?

It would be wonderful if the Church invested more in it's media arm. The Seventh-day Adventists are a great in this area.

[Calm]

20 minutes ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

It would be wonderful if the Church invested more in it's media arm. The Seventh-day Adventists are a great in this area.

Do their leaders travel a lot to give talks?  Just curious.  Not making a point.  I know very little about the faith.

Edited September 30, 2025 by Calm

[ZealouslyStriving]

3 minutes ago, Calm said:

Do their leaders travel a lot to give talks?  Just curious.  Not making a point.  I know very little about the faith.

I would encourage you to check out their suite of media offerings on the 3ABN app. 

[Calm]

1 hour ago, bsjkki said:

Utah State bomb threat. 

Did they just blow up the package or did they confirm it was an explosive?

[Calm]

2 hours ago, bsjkki said:

I just don’t want the victims accounts to not get the same love. There are many of those. 
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2025/09/30/family-friends-grand-blanc-church-attack-victims-launch-online-fundraisers/86436711007/#

https://gofund.me/7ca4303d2

https://gofund.me/56d726f45

 

 

Thank you!  Got distracted before I should have, meant to go looking for them several times.

[bsjkki]

7 minutes ago, Calm said:

Thank you!  Got distracted before I should have, meant to go looking for them several times.

I can't find one for Thelma Armstrong. Please link to it if anyone has it. Two resident/doctors from the ward were shot and the medical community has raised over $179,000 for their recovery. One is still in the hospital.

Ben Phelps was the 2nd counselor and needs multiple surgeries. 

Edited October 1, 2025 by bsjkki

[bluebell]

56 minutes ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

It would be wonderful if the Church invested more in it's media arm. The Seventh-day Adventists are a great in this area.

I’ve actually never seen any media for the seventh day Adventist, but I wouldn’t have a problem if the church had more media. They used to do a lot in the 80s and 90s it seems like. But now that everybody’s on streaming and nobody watches commercials I don’t know How successful a media campaign would be?

I certainly see a lot from them on my Facebook feed, but that’s probably because I follow so many of their pages.

[ZealouslyStriving]

7 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I’ve actually never seen any media for the seventh day Adventist, but I wouldn’t have a problem if the church had more media. They used to do a lot in the 80s and 90s it seems like. But now that everybody’s on streaming and nobody watches commercials I don’t know How successful a media campaign would be?

I certainly see a lot from them on my Facebook feed, but that’s probably because I follow so many of their pages.

Like I told @Calm check out their media suite at the 3ABN app.

(You can always uninstall later)

Edit: I don't mean a media commercial campaign. I mean BYUTV on steroids.

Edited October 1, 2025 by ZealouslyStriving

[Chum]

2 hours ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

our enemies have learned that they can accuse them of "contention" and they will immediately back down.

In my old ward, the C word came out whenever someone talked about improving things or doing an event that the Stake didn't prescribe.  Usually there were some "You can just go do that yourself" suggestions in between. 

[Chum]

48 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I wouldn’t have a problem if the church had more media. They used to do a lot in the 80s and 90s it seems like.

The commercial with the young mom, baby crying, boiling pots, baby crying, ringing phone, burned hand, baby crying, hang up on hubby and she lunges toward the crib. That came out about 1980 and it was the first time I'd ever heard of the Church - whoever those people were. Even as an adolescent I was deeply impressed they covered the topic in a commercial and in a realistic way.

[bluebell]

42 minutes ago, Chum said:

In my old ward, the C word came out whenever someone talked about improving things or doing an event that the Stake didn't prescribe.  Usually there were some "You can just go do that yourself" suggestions in between. 

I just read this quote tonight as part of my scripture study of the D&C.  It seems relevant.

"Let the elders be exceedlying careful about unnecessarily disturbing and harrowing up the feelings of the people.  Remember that your business is, to preach the gospel in all humility and meekness, and warn sinners to repent and come to Christ.  Avoid contentions and vain disputes with men of corrupt minds, who do not desire to know the truth.  Remember that 'it is a day of warning, and not a day of many words.'  If they receive not your testimony in one place, flee to another, remembering to cast no reflections, nor throw out any bitter sayings.  If you do your duty, it will be just as well with you, as though all men embraced the gospel."  ~Joseph Smith

[The Nehor]

5 hours ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

https://babylonbee.com/news/mormons-respond-to-attack-by-continuing-to-be-amazingly-kind-to-everyone?fbclid=IwdGRjcANJIY5jbGNrA0khemV4dG4DYWVtAjExAAEeg_x7r41I0mmbn6NsePQ-xHlxXV4H1pDwNHhydwP1vbOzdXqoEXPdxrmIhk4_aem_OKOC0hyJKJ58-Fp-ghY2Sg

** Now, obviously, they are not hating on us. But others see it as a trait of which to take advantage.

Jesus, nor our prophets and apostles, have said, "Thou shalt be a doormat."**

I am trying to figure out what you are advocating here for? More staunch verbal interactions? Or throwing weight around in other ways?

[The Nehor]

One thing I hate about these shootings is the endless harping about how harsh rhetoric causes this. I really don’t think it does. I am not even convinced that political views are the main cause. I suspect that is an easy dodge to avoid talking about systemic issues that are leading to a culture of nihilism and hopelessness. Other liberal democracies have harsh political rhetoric without having a culture of mass shootings and targeted political violence.

[bsjkki]

https://x.com/bednardavida/status/1973226432223731995?s=46&t=3s1hAwLyJjhV7en6e_9AtQ

The video is in the link. 2minutes. Sad images of the building.

Edited October 1, 2025 by bsjkki

[Chum]

edited

Edited October 1, 2025 by Chum

[Chum]

I would like it if theological institutions and other Christian organizations would stop all instruction that leads to adherents believing other faiths are evil.

[Chum]

3 hours ago, bluebell said:

I just read this quote tonight as part of my scripture study of the D&C.  It seems relevant.

"Let the elders be exceedlying careful about unnecessarily disturbing and harrowing up the feelings of the people.  Remember that your business is, to preach the gospel in all humility and meekness, and warn sinners to repent and come to Christ.  Avoid contentions and vain disputes with men of corrupt minds, who do not desire to know the truth.  Remember that 'it is a day of warning, and not a day of many words.'  If they receive not your testimony in one place, flee to another, remembering to cast no reflections, nor throw out any bitter sayings.  If you do your duty, it will be just as well with you, as though all men embraced the gospel."  ~Joseph Smith

I accept this but I could use your help in bringing it home for me. If a parent finds there is no young men's weekday program at all except basketball, how should they proceed - once the initial polite asking to implement existing Church programs and polite offering to volunteer have all been politely declined? 

[bsjkki]