Calm

And more progressive church leaders don’t? We even had significant numbers imo of members condemning Pres. Nelson as being apostate when he shut down in person services and promoted vaccination and that was hardly progressive. You are damned if you do and damned if you don’t in today’s world (and probably were at any time in history, we just have much more publication of the damning now with the internet).

I go for a variety are needed because the needs of humanity are very varied.

I would like to know the evidence for spying as well. I don’t consider it impossible or even unlikely, we have the example of Wilkinson from the past to show it does happen. But it is a serious accusation, so there should be a solid documentation showing it, imo, before assuming there must be a reason for it (no smoke without a fire is a false proverb in both a literal and figurative sense as peat and other substances can smoke without flames, upholstery is apparently known for it if cigarettes are left on furniture).

I tried, but I must….because the image needs to be right in my head and it’s not suppose to be a crown, but straps. 😛 “Rein him in” like the reins on a horse, not “reign” as in what a ruler does. https://www.dictionary.com/articles/reign-vs-rein

I definitely agree with you here. If he was at a nonLDS institution, I would also agree with this. But I don’t see how this is going against the grain given it’s CES we are talking about. Was he publishing similar critiques prior to working for the Church? (Serious question as I haven’t researched him and I don’t see a reason why this kind of stuff would have come up for him prior to that.)

But it is a much more realistic and practical and therefore it’s a useful example, imo, and one that others would more likely consider following given where they likely are in their lives (giving up a significant, but not essential financial gain for a spiritual or charitable gain instead is going to get you further down the progression path than balking at giving it all up to devote all your time to Christ). The rich young man was an example of what we eventually need to do, Elder Gilbert’s example can help us get to the state where we can seriously consider and accept that our giving it all up to Christ is the best choice for us and others. We need both examples, imo.

Seems odd this would not be flagged immediately. Unless a grocery store or something like that.

I got the idea with rpn that it was more about authority than purity. The top leadership are the ones in charge and ultimately responsible as well as accountable to God…and the ones who can most likely make things change significantly (though there is always community inertia they have to face).

Huh? Not seeing how you got here from rpn’s responses. I find rpn’s remarks reasonable. How can you expect someone to act on something if they don’t know about it? However it’s also obvious that rpn can’t control what happens with the letter once sent, so why invest mental and emotional energy into being concerned about it? Even if the letters are screened and top leadership never sees it, if it is a complaint about how the abuse report process works, there is, imo, a good chance it will get to the lawyers and administrators of the hot line, which may impact how things are addressed in the future if it’s good info, accurate and thorough. From personal experience, I know at least some of those involved in the hot line are very interested in ensuring victims are satisfied with the process. I would assume they feel the same way about bishops.

Is the concept of honesty even relevant to a robot? I second the welcome appearance of the gatekeeper given I was getting blocked out again yesterday way too much.

Community service then.

Primary music stays with you till you die, lol. It would be insane to lower the kids’ interaction with others their age even more. Outside of the Mormon corridor, there isn’t often another way to develop LDS friends until you are a teen and going to seminary, etc….and by then it might be too late as it feels too awkward. From 2nd grade to 8th I had no LDS friends and was not the least interested in making extra effort to make it to Primary, etc. Belief was strong because Mom and I would talk a lot about Church, but there was no sense of community. That radically changed when we moved back to California and the chapel was within walking distance and I had a couple of member friends in high school (though the closest one was not in my ward). Attending meetings mattered to me because I knew people there, got to know others my age relatively well even if I wasn’t buddies with anyone in my ward.

I second that

Make them and the other vandals pay for the damage….either in cash, garnished wages, or community service hours imo. Got their resistance training in for the week.

What of the women called prophets in the OT? https://crucis.ac.edu.au/remembering-women-prophets-old-testament/#:~:text=There are five women in,woman in Isaiah 8%3A 3. PS: additional commentary by you makes for a more interesting reading for me.

We have had active nonmembers be given assignments before in several wards we have been in. I heard it was not uncommon for nonmember dads to be asked to be an assistant Scout leader, though that’s not an option any more. I don’t know the setup for youth these days if working with them is likely anymore. I would go ahead and ask, but be prepared to be told you can’t do anything ‘official’ if I remember what you have shared in the past about your situation. If that happens, why not ask if there is anything unofficial that needs doing, such as cleaning up around the outside of the Church or weeding when it needs it as that doesn’t need keys or anyone else involved. If you want something more in the ministering range, looking after the needs of some family or individual who is in a bad spot…my husband drives people in the ward and neighbourhood (when they spilt the ward they took the opposite side of the street for the other ward to make the numbers work, which makes no sense to me) who can’t drive (including me, lol) to doctor’s appointments, even if it’s an hour away (people go for chemo up in Salt Lake sometimes or have specialists that are operating out of the UoU). Of course he is retired and you may not be (I don’t have a clue about your age, now I am thinking of that). Taking someone grocery shopping or even doing it for them if they can’t afford the delivery service many stores offer now would be a very welcomed gift. I assume you are getting your ward’s weekly email. Look for any humanitarian projects the ward or stake is holding and show up for those if you don’t already if it’s okay with the bishop (unless he is a clueless newbie that wants to avoid any possible error I can’t see why this would be a problem, but it’s not like I am familiar with protocols). If the bishop is okay with it, talk to the Elders Quorum and Relief Society leaders and get out on their list of ‘someone needs help’ contacts.

And not very accurate given that Feeding the Future boss is a white American woman and that is likely the biggest pandemic relief fraud we got, though maybe labeling her acts as German theft (her name is likely German origin) works for some. It also seems most involved were American citizens. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feeding_Our_Future When I first heard Somali thefts, I thought they were talking about crime in Somali. It would be weird to start hearing “European theft” or “European fraud”….and we would be hearing it a lot as the majority of fraud arrests appear to be of white individuals in the US (given the percentage of population that is white, this is not unexpected).

Or maybe he just had a habit of carrying his handgun at all times like quite a few people I have come across. Or perhaps you think we should assume anyone choosing to carry a handgun is looking for trouble?

Did you watch the Oyler interview? (Actual question asI haven’t finished it yet.) Others who reviewed it said he made certain claims, not just left out details or told only part of the story.

What is odd to me is the business owners who are likely providing the most jobs for the undocumented (and it seems like knowing the jobs are here is what would likely drive most immigration here these days as there are safer English speaking countries—up to 65% of second language worldwide is English apparently—better welfare, and healthcare***) are likely Republican leaning since it’s more probable that small business owners are Republican as well as owners in the industries that employ the most undocumented, agriculture and construction. So the powerful that are most directly benefiting are the group the Republican voter could impact the most, imo, if the grassroots members focused their attention on them. ***When we were in Canada 30ish years ago, there were a number of Individuals and families that came to Canada as a step to immigrating to the US. They all at least liked Canada, but were looking for the big bucks of the US.

There could have been public info the bishop was aware of about an arrest or something…or was it said that there was actually no confession to police? I started researching yesterday, but got interrupted. If there was more evidence of a self confession, it is more creasonable to assume the claim about the therapist was true as well…but unless there was mandatory reporting even for therapist (do we know the timing of the abuse and the state?), it is problematic assuming a therapist reported it unless there was a sign of imminent danger surely.

It is confusing. One theory I have heard and considered myself was the policy changed at some time, but need (and probably won’t follow through) to do a timeline for the various cases being referred to when each statement was made to see it that makes sense.

Finally. I have heard the general approach (both lawyer and social worker are available) from those familiar with the help line, but it’s good to have it official with a clear, detailed example on the public record with documentation to back it up if needed, it would seem. I do not ever remember a specific rebuttal with details, just a general description of the help line. Iirc, the closest was the description given in the Bieber abuse case, but I am out if it today and details are vague in my brain. Got to wonder what the victim feels about Mr. Oyler using their case to condemn the Church on this. Btw, I am not assuming Oyler is intentionally lying, memories are too easily rewritten. Hopefully he will issue a retraction and an apology over the details he got wrong.

When I ask “And?”, typically I am asking for your explanation, conclusions, opinions. Answering with a quote and another question tells me nothing about what something means in your view. It is not having a discussion. Can you at least explain why you always shift to another question rather than finish or at least engage with something you yourself has started? This is not a criticism, but trying to understand how you think, what your purpose is here to better address your posts. Because at this point it feels like you start a one on one basket ball game, pass off the ball and instead of joining in running down the court, passing back and forth until there’s a basket, you go off to start another game, leaving the person you invited to play alone on the court.

You do this by clicking on the three dots in the upper right hand corner of the offending post or just the last post of the thread (same three dots you use for editing your own post or sharing a post) so far and hitting report and then explain why you think it should be closed (usually I say “political” or “personal”, maybe vent a little 😛 ). I report using my own post sometimes if it’s a tech issue. The mods typically don’t seem to read the board much anymore, so you have to use the report function to get their attention and it can take a day or two at times for a response, so don’t assume they didn’t get the message.