california boy

I am not going to get into the middle of this discussion because I think it is pretty pointless. But I will say this. WHO CARES HOW OTHER PEOPLE CHOOSE TO LIVE THEIR LIVES. It is their life, not yours. While transgender pushback of how they should live their lives is about 5 minutes old, the concept of self determination was part of this country from the beginning. I started on this site when the church started to wage its war against gay marriage. Members of the Church were claiming that if gay marriage was made legal, people would want to marry farm animals, the idea of marriage would be relegated to the scrap heap, people wouldn't know what being married means, yada, yada, yada. I have a sincere question to ask all of you. Exactly what harm has happened to anyone on this board because of gay marriage being legal that is worth banning all who is gay from this legal right? What harm has happend to anyone on this board because someone came out transgender that deserves all transgender people of their individual rights? What harm has anyone on this board personally had because someone's skin is black or brown that makes it ok to discriminate against all who is not white. What harm has anyone on this board had from a religion that deserves the entire religion to be denied rights. Seriously, prejudicial beliefs about ANYONE just because they are different from you is the most stupid idea anyone has ever had. It should all be regulated to the dustbin of history. Let people live their lives the way they see fit. Learn to treat others that are different from yourself with respect and dignity. Forget all this nonsense. It should be embarrassing that people feel like they should even have to fight at all for individual rights just because they don't look like those in power.

From your link: A person who has been called by and speaks for God. As a messenger of God, a prophet receives commandments, prophecies, and revelations from God. Yet there is a HUGE lack of even claimed revelations since the very early prophets who seem to claim them regularly and even then some of those claims were diaavowed in modern times, Yet that is the very first line of the definition of a prophet. One has to assume either God has lost interest in guiding mankind, or these men are prophets in name only. The church just uses that title for the leader of the church. When I was a missionary, the Church printed a brochure that had a photograph of David O McKay on its cover. I would knock on doors and ask people if they knew who this man was. Then I would tell them a wonderful story about how he was a prophet of God and received revelations from God just like prophets in the Bible. I truly believed that. I actually thought the prophet leading the Church had regular revelations from God himself. But that is not really true is it. In fact, in all those years since then, there has only been one revelation even claimed by the Church that I know of, the revelation on the priesthood, which frankly didn't really need a revelation from anyone to know that was blatantly wrong and against the teachings of the Savior. There is not justification for the head of the Church in being called a prophet. There are just the last standing man standing to make it through the bureaucracy of Church leadership. Yet, we live at a time where so many issues in the Church and world today desperately need a revelation from God. So many issues that are put into Church teachings that like the priesthood ban are put there because of past prejudices. Issues like women's second class status, how to treat those that are LGBT, Word of Wisdom practices, clarification of how a man can be sealed to multiple women, but women can not. So many of these issues are completely man made with no input from God at all. The very basic claims of the Church which I once believed made the Church unique in the world are actually not really there. Just men trying to do their best to run a church like any other church on earth. What would it take to convince me that they are trustworthy? Something more than just a claim of Christ running the Church through its leaders. How about even claims of revelations from God more than help in finding lost keys? Would I even believe in any claims of new revelations from God? I will admit, that there have been way too many lies that I once believed in that now have strong proof that they were just made up stories used to control people's ives and enrich the wealth of the Church. Isn't that the result of just about every church ever established? Mormonism has nothing special. It follows the same pattern religion has always followed from the dawn of time. I am not saying that everything the Church does is bad or evil. I am only saying that there is nothing special about Mormonism. If the church works for you, I wish nothing but happiness for you, just like I would anyone else who finds happiness in religious worship. and just like I wish for those that have found happiness outside of religion. I had a life in religion. I personally have found a much more happy life outside of religion. I find myself not carrying any longer about claims of the divine. What I was put through and what others are put through simply because they are not straight like the majority of people in the name of religion does not come from a God.

I think you are saying that modern prophets are something more special than just being the head of the Church. Would you say that a prophet receives direct revelation from God for the Church? And can you point to anything a prophet in your life time that would point to them actually having claimed some direct revelation with God? Or would you say that a prophet is just someone who gives personal advice on what he thinks is good advice. Do you feel that modern prophets have always been trustworthy in what they said was a claimed revelation from God?

Given the choice of having every hair on my head restored and loosing reproductive parts, I will choose the latter

I am reading all these claims about how God has bestowed blessings based on obedience to Him even if it is a broken neck. Is it really possible to tell if something is a blessing from God due to one's faithfulness in obeying any commandment? Or is it simply a desire to attribute good things to God and even bad things to God because of lessons learned by going to Church and hearing regularly that God is the one handing out what life gives us. I look at my life while I was faithfully in the Church for so many years and compare it to my life now after being gone from the Church for so many years. Overall, things haven't changed all that much. I have always been financially secure because I have always had good jobs due to my education and innate ability to work hard and not settle for mediocre solutions. After leaving the Church, I made some good investments and hard work to make my finances secure. And I did have 10% more to invest. No God involved. My health is much stronger and better than most people my age because I have always gone to the gym bike regularly and have always been active in sports and exercise. Plus I think I have good genes which I was simply born with. My dad had good health all his life. Are the genes we are born with because of our relationship with God in the preexistence? I hope that is not the case for those that are born with challenging conditions inherited by their genes. Or is it like the broken neck story where blessings come from God giving us crappy stuff to deal with. My ex-wife is the exact same age as me. Her health is deteriorating significantly. Our health is probably at least a decade difference between us. My grandchildren were shocked when they learned that we are the same age. She has never exercised, isn't active in any physical activities to speak of and never has. Yet she has kept the WoW her whole life down to a fault, pays her tithing, but hasn't done as well as me financially because of how she invested her money. Yet she is obedient to all she has been taught to thinks God has asked of her. Did God have a hand in any of this? Is He blessing my ex-wife with poor health and me with excellent health? Is her financial situation because she has paid a full tithing all her life or is my financial security a curse from God because I quit paying tithing? Just how much does God manage our lifes based on anything we do in relationship to Him. How do you identify a blessing from God separate from the choices we make unrelated to God's involvement at all. I realized that I attributed blessings from God because I was in the Church and told that certain outcomes is because of some commandments I was keeping. Turns out, that had nothing to do with any of that. Those that are in the Church will continue to attribute certain outcomes no matter what those outcomes are to God. I don't begrudge that. But the reality is far more about the choices we make and how we choose to live our lives and how we handle the difficulties that life throws at us, not God.

Thank you. That was very helpful.

Hope I am not annoying you, but your thinking on this issue interests me. Do you think cutting off the sleeves of an existing pair of garments to look like the new ones is to accommodate different styles of clothing. If so, do you think the new design was decided upon to accommodate different styles of clothing? I would think cutting right before the sleeve would not require any sewing skills. But maybe what I am thinking about is not how they are currently made.

Not even to make modifications that the church has made?

Instead of standing in line for hours, would it be appropriate to just cut the sleeves off the ones you already have?

No. what I find amusing is thinking whatever Moroni was wearing should be what temple garments should look like. If that is the case then why wear temple garments underneath clothing. They should be worn like Moroni did, on the outside for everyone to see, not as underwear

I started to put my name in, but as soon as I sealed the envelope it burst into flames.

Thank you for taking the time to write your response. I do now understand why you were posting what you did. Yes, the Church was not the only one pushing for the passage of Prop 8, but it was the face of that proposition. I grew up in the Bay Area and I too remember a general like and acceptance of the Church. That acceptance seems to have deteriorated quite a bit. I am sure there are a number of factors that have contributed to that deterioration. This is just one of many. Perhaps the biggest influence have come from so many people leaving the church in this area. Every stake I have lived in has had a decrease in the number of wards, a sharp contrast from exceptional growth in my youth. Unlike when I was growing up when people became inactive and just faded away, many who have left the Church have not been silent about why they left. There is a lot of anger and resentment against the Church now that didn't exist nearly so much as in the past. AI lists the three biggest social reasons why people. have left the Church

So an opinion to show disrespect to a community based on outliners that say stuff to grab attention. Well I hope you never have a problem with people basing the opinion of the Church by what they see on Tic Toc or wherever they broadcast this stuff. I personally think that is very unfair of people to judge any organization based on what some random person says on the internet. If you really want to have a more honest and educational understanding of the LGBT community I might suggest you actually talk to someone who is LGBT. You might be surprised that we aren't really the freaks you seem to think we are. While the LGBT community is not a monolith, Glaad is probably the best source to find the right term for that community. They and I and most everyone in the LGBT community will tell you LGBT, LGBTQ, and LGBTQ+ are all acceptable terms,. When you use the term LGTBQYXUVICYCU+ you are just being an _hole and insulting. But then I think that was your intent. I will try not to judge all members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints by you.

LGTBQYXUVICYCU+ tells me everything I need to know about your respect for those in the LGBT community. You are asking people to show more respect for BYU but you show no respect for them.

I think this tread is becoming a little too personal for me. Evidently I seem to be the only one on this thread that believes discrimination against LGBT students is of any importance at any university in this country. Good to know that no one seems to think this is even a possibility. Probably the same thinking that discrimination against Blacks was not important in the 1970's and pushing back against discrimination is not really a thing at universities. Do I know how much of this is about treatment of LGBT students at BYU? No I do not. But I do know how much animosity there is against the Church within the LGBT community. Let me just say, the Church not liked and people have pretty strong feelings against Mormons because of the policies against the LGBT community. Remember the firestorm when the Church decided to not allow baptisms if one of the parents was gay and gay couples were called apostates? You still don't think that people care? Ok, carry on. That is all I have to say about this.

Tell me, what is my monetary value of my principles?

So your position is that LGBT students don't know LGBT history? My experience is very different than that.

We have had this discussion so many times on this board. If you still want to believe that the Church was not the principle force behind Prop 8 by a wide margin, then I guess I am not going to change your mind at this point. I will give this summation from AI

Is that unusual in college football stadiums?

Really Calm? You know the numbers and how much each group contributed. Mormons over $20 million Catholics $3 million. During the campaign for California's Proposition 8 in 2008, an estimated 80% to 90% of the volunteers for early door-to-door canvassing were members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS), also known as the Mormon Church . While this is a very high percentage, it doesn't represent the 40% of overall manpower for the entire campaign. Thanks for your answer. I don't know the answer to your question. I do know that there are people who refused to go to BYU because of the way they treat LGBT students. Remember the very public events that happened when students thought that the honor code rules were changed?

I think they were making both a political statement because there are definitely political reasons involved, and they are young and dumb. Like I said in the previous post, I would not be surprised if a LGBT group started the chant for those reasons and the rest of the students joined in because it is more a football chant that is becoming more common

Perhaps you are right. I don't really know. But I do think that those that are LGBT are probably aware of how BYU treats LGBT students. Is all it takes is bringing up the issue at other LGBT events. The LGBT community is pretty sensitive about discrimination and for good reason given their history. I would not be surprised if that group started the chant for those reasons and the rest of the students joined in because it is more a football chant that is becoming more common???

Not sure what your last sentence is addressing. Could you clarify?

It was F the Mormons F BYU. Who sponsors BYU? Can I ask why you don't think a big part of this is not social issues related to LGBT? Do you think most students don't care about discrimination against LGBT students? Do you think LGBT students at other universities don't care about LGBT students at BYU?

Someone should probably point out that perhaps it might not be against a religion but against how that religion and a university treats LGBT students. I would say that *BYU is pretty clear about distain for BYU. It is not hard to like someone who is a member of the Church and still be very upset about a university sponsored by a religion and its discrimination policies. None of those chants were directed at an individual. I would like to ask you this question that I asked in my post. If you were a LGBT student at one of those schools that the administration power bordered a deal to get that BYU broadcasting money without significantly considering the social issues, just how would you push back? Not surprising the coach blames it on the alcohol. It's an easy scape goat. Would you expect him to come out and say it is about how BYU treats LGBT issues? Plenty of prejudice against the Catholic church as well, but Notre Dame isn't getting these kinds of chants. Perhaps it is because their policies towards LGBT students are light years away from BYU's. I am not saying that alcohol might be a part of it, but I don't think it is really what is fueling the dislike for the Church or BYU. There is alcohol served at just about every football game throughout the country. People in other leagues are not chanting these kinds of chants. There is definitely something more going on. Maybe a part of me is remembering the pushback BYU was getting in the 70's over the black issue when I was attending BYU. It wasn't alcohol then either.