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california boy

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Everything posted by california boy

  1. Interesting. Thanks for that. It makes a little more sense to me now. Just not sure where the Bishops role in a professors tenure other than issuing a temple recommend.
  2. I graduated in 1974 I would agree that there are a lot of BYU grands that are quite successful, me being one of them. The professors I mentioned made the same choice to step away from very successful careers, take a cut in pay because they too wanted to help the cause of Zion. But part of the reason why they were willing to make such a commitment is because BYU promised them a pretty free hand on how they designed the courses they taught and what part of their real world experience they could bring to those students. I am just not sure they would be willing to walk away from their successful careers if they thought some bishop could remove them from their tenure based on the church leaders judgement of what they believed. In the end, my opinion doesn't matter. And only time will tell how this policy affects the faculty and teaching caliber at BYU. We will also see if it changes the students involvement at BYU and the Church for better or for worse. I am pretty skeptical that the vast majority of young members leaving the Church has anything to do with something some professor said in class one day. But hey, maybe Church leaders have pinpointed the exact cause of so many youth leaving.
  3. I don't think. holding a temple recommend is the problem here. I think it is more leadership roulette when a bishop or other Church leader who has little idea about what you do for a living has control over whether you continue your employment. Isn't the whole goal of this new push to tighten up on anything other than a very narrowly defined Church narrative about what is discussed by BYU faculty?
  4. My degree at BYU was a double major, Art Direction and Graphic Design with a minor in Photography. I can tell you flat out the best instructors I had at BYU were professionals out there working in the industry that BYU actively recruited to come and teach. My favorite teacher, before joining the faculty, was an Art Director at Capitol Records. He brought real world experience with him when he commented to teach at BYU. He also took a substantial pay cut because he wanted to support the Church. I honestly don't think he would have considered the position with the kind of nonsense that is being asked of current faculty. Why would he? He had a successful career. He didn't need to teach. Another was one of the principle designers for a very high end cutting edge furniture company. He was also recruited by the staff at BYU and came with real world knowledge of what was actually happening in the cutting design of furniture design. He opened my eyes up to many aspects of product design because of that knowledge. He came because BYU promised him that he could build his own department and do it on his terms. I could tell you a few others that were similarly hired. There were also teachers that had graduated to BYU when my dad went there and then got hired to teach. It was like they were trapped in the design world of the 50's. Church academia was the only world they had ever been exposed to. Some of the assignments we were required to do was such a throwback to how things had been done 20 years earlier. Yeah I am sure he would have agreed to any kinds of requirements BYU would impose to keep teaching. Honestly, he was trapped. It was all he could do. While this might not be true in all fields of study, in a lot of fields, what was taught even 5 years ago, may no longer be relevant. A top university needs top candidates with real world experience in many different departments. What I got most out of my University experience is being exposed to different ideas, different possibilities, even different career paths that I, at the time had no idea were even out there. I started out thinking I could teach art because my father was in education. I left with a degree that allowed me to eventually start my own advertising agency. Without those key faculty members that showed me cutting edge design and pushed me to be prepared in that field, I would have had a far different career. I hate seeing what BYU is doing. I believe it is going to definitely have a chilling affect on bringing a diverse faculty, one that I was able to experience. Mediocre teachers that don't make waves are easy to find. The ones that you have to work hard to attract are the ones that make a university a launching pad for successful graduates. They are also the ones least likely to put up with this kind on nonsense. I also want to say one more thing. If a student can't handle a diverse opinion about religious beliefs and needs to be so closely channeled so that they never hear anything that will challenge their beliefs at a church school for heavens sake, how are they going to handle diverse challenging ideas in the real world once they leave the baby blanket BYU insists on wrapping them in?
  5. I know exactly how you feel. I felt more guilty and it felt more immoral having sex with my wife than I do with my partner. With him it feels honest, with love and devotion. With my wife it felt like a fraud and the only reason for being married was because Church leaders promised me in the name of God that if I did, I would become straight. I learned not to trust what Church leaders claim came from God, and find my own relationship with Him. My life is a life of joy, happiness and love, something I never experienced while trying to do what the Church demanded. I wish you the best of luck in finding the path that is best for you back to God.
  6. You are right. I guess I was focused more on just clarification. Maybe Elder Holland doesn't have anything to apologize for when using a violent metaphors against the LGBT community, one that is frequently targeted by gun violence. I should have left that totally up to an apostle to decide if that was appropriate or not.
  7. Actually I asserted that it would be helpful if they had clarified their comments. Thanks for the quotes. I am glad that they clarified their remarks. I feel it is very helpful. Can you provide the link where you found either remark? And to clarify, I never asked for an apology. Just a clarification.
  8. Blah, Blah Blah. I never said metaphors should never be used. This is what I said, and this is not what you addressed. Do you actually have an answer to my questions? You claim that Elder Holland does not need to clarify what he said, yet more people "misunderstood" him than understood what he said and took his remarks as some kind of dog whistle to rally continued violence against the LGBT community. I would say that needs clarification.
  9. Stay completely away from all of these reparative therapy groups. Northstar is just the latest version of Evergreen, another LDS reparative therapy group that absolutely has been debunked. I spent time in Evergreen when I came out, mostly because my family wanted me to. I even flew down to Los Angeles regularly to see David Matheson for a period of time to go through his "therapy"sessions. I went to him because he was actually the one who wrote the manual for the Church's Evergreen program. He sat directly across from me swearing how he used to be gay but is now happily married and is no longer gay. He promised me the same results. Yeah, it is all a bunch of crap and has been completely debunked. A similar group, Exodus International was geared to sucking in other Christians into believing they could change from being gay to being straight. After 38 years of defrauding and preying on gay men, Alan Chambers, president of Exodus International closed down the organization. Dario, I am not telling you how to live your life, or what the best path for you is. But I am telling you loud and clear, before you embark upon any of these "change the gays" type organizations, investigate for yourself before you become involved. I would also say to Bernard, you better be very sure when you make such a recommendation that what you are recommending is something that you really know what you are recommending. Just because it is under the banner of the Church (as was Evergreen) does not mean in any way that it is not just a bunch of crap that can actually be very destructive to someone who is gay.
  10. So why exactly did you downvote Dario's post someone wanting to just give him a hug and know that he is still loved by offering a hug??
  11. Those downvotes are so wrong. I can't understand why anyone would do such a thing to someone who is struggling. Perhaps @Raingirl and @SMAC will explain in their own words why such a tragedy would earn their scorn for a poster who is really struggling. I would really like to understand such responses by those who claim to be followers of Christ.
  12. There are literally hundreds of the LGBT community that are shot every year in this country and even more who are murdered throughout the world. There have been gun massacres at gay clubs during this same time period. Yet Elder Holland chose to use the phrase that many perceived as a literally call to arms against the LGBT community. The use of this violent metaphors was at best a very bad choice of words that caused triggers in a lot of the LGBT community. The outrage among a wide spectrum of people was understandable. Violence against the LGBT community should never be encouraged. Given the past attacks on the LGBT community by the Church, it is not like there was already hostility against the Church for it's actions. It is impossible for me to believe that Elder Holland never heard about the uproar that his speech caused. Yet he said NOTHING to clarify his position. How easy would it have been for Elder Holland to issue a statement of clarification that he meant no physical harm to the LGBT community. A simple statement would have taken the wind out of the sails of those who believe he was insensitive to what those in the LGBT community deal with in fear on a daily basis. I mean it is not like he doesn't have a very large pulpit that would easily cover such an apology. It literally would have taken 10 minutes to clarify his remarks. His complete silence on this subject can only be interpreted in a few ways. 1. Elder Holland was perfectly ok with people taking his metaphor literally as a dog whistle call for arms against the LGBT community. 2. Whatever an apostle say is always correct and never should be apologized for. 3. Apostles never apologize for any errors in judgement. 4. Elder Holland has so much self pride that he just could not have issued a statement of clarification. Maybe I am missing something. Can you explain why Elder Holland never made any attempt to clear up his statement and clarify exactly what he meant if in fact some people too offense and misinterpreted his intent of his words? Doesn't Elder Hamilton have the same opportunity to clarify what he meant to say? Would it not be better for HIM to clarify his remarks rather than you doing it for him? Why is this so difficult for Church leaders?? Are they trying to perpetuate this infallibility in what they say and do and any kind of clarifying statement is some kind of distorted sign of weakness? Like Elder Holland, his complete silence causes most people to believe that their understanding of what he said is exactly what he meant. I predict that such incidents are going to continue to happen. If the Church really wants these firestorms to stop perhaps they should be more proactive in clarifying their remarks. Because silence is being understood to mean that how people are responding to these situations was in fact, their intent.
  13. It gets better. And you will find a wonderful family in the LGBT community who will love you for who you are and not who they want you to be. I think you were very brave to be out so young. Stay strong.
  14. Of course BYU and the Church can do pretty much whatever it wants, but there is always consequences, sometime not seen until hindsight. It might mean more censures. It also might mean other consequences. I can't help but think what happens when parents think the best way to get their children to do what they think is best is to tighten their grip on their children. Any signs of falling out of line means increasing that grip. I have seen the results of such parenting. It rarely turns out good. The Church is already loosing huge numbers of members that are college age. Not allowing them diverse experiences during those college years is a huge disservice to them that may likely go the same was as over strict parents. If students are not allowed to discuss different points of view with their BYU professors, just who will they turn to when they are exploring different points of view?? Is it the goal of the Church to have those kinds of conversations outside of a church environment?? Sounds like mission accomplished.
  15. I get the distinction between the two. One is created to be eaten. The other is created to last forever.
  16. Well one thing you have clearly convinced me of is that your chosen user name is very appropriate. It seems like your reading comprehension is absolutely non-existent. For the now FOURTH time, this is actually what I posted. Please now try and focus on the bold underlined and italic part. The other problem you point out is that every scripture, even when you assume it came from God it does not give concrete answers on what to do. In your example of husbands is to be the head of the wife, in a similar manner that Christ is the head of the church. What does it mean to be head of the house and exactly how does Christ govern His Church? I see this same lack of comprehension in your interaction with other posters, so I don't think I am something special. I get that you are fairly new here, but if you plan to continue to post on this board, you will find that you can say just about anything you want here, but people will hold you accountable for your statements and the expectation is you will respond to them in a truthful manner and not simply ignore what you can not refute.
  17. If you are going to respond to my posts quit cutting out the point of my post. If you can’t do that then please Don’t respond. Once again, THIS is what I actually posted. It does have a point The other problem you point out is that every scripture, even when you assume it came from God does not give concrete answers on what to do. In your example of husbands is to be the head of the wife, in a similar manner that Christ is the head of the church. What does it mean to be head of the house and exactly how does Christ govern His Church? You are pretending scriptures that YOU claimed are concrete clear principles clearly are not All that clear on what it actually means People read the scriptures literally thousands of ways including your so called concrete principles Nothing is concrete clear in the scriptures
  18. Not sure how you could have missed half of my post The other problem you point out is that every scripture, even when you assume it came from God does not give concrete answers on what to do. In your example of husbands is to be the head of the wife, in a similar manner that Christ is the head of the church. What does it mean to be head of the house and exactly how does Christ govern His Church?
  19. Your answer completely disproves that the scriptures can give anyone concrete answers as you were claiming. One big flaw you point out is that no one really knows whether anyone was injecting their own ideas and had nothing to do with what God may want or not want. The other problem you point out is that every scripture, even when you assume it came from God does not give concrete answers on what to do. In your example of husbands is to be the head of the wife, in a similar manner that Christ is the head of the church. What does it mean to be head of the house and exactly how does Christ govern His Church? Anyone looking for concrete answers are not going to find them in the scriptures. They are also not going to find concrete answers from the big 15. The last claimed revelation if it actually came from God was 50 years ago. That would indicate that the husband is expected to only say something about his beliefs is maybe only going to occur every 50 years. I know a lot of women who could get solidly behind this idea. Sound like concrete answers to you???
  20. You made this statement I am asking you to provide just 10 things in the scriptures directly related to the issue of past and present teachings and policies regarding race and other social issues that everyone can agree with found in the scriptures. Can you give 10 teachings or principles from the scriptures that everyone can agree on as you have claimed???? If you want to include the two you mentioned, I would be glad to comment on those as part of your list.
  21. Does a retailer have any rights of control over what he sells once it leaves his store?
  22. More than that. Millions of innocent people have been murdered in war that was all able to be justified in the name of God. Millions.
  23. So not a single concrete commandment or gospel principle. Just stories about Christ that have to be taken on faith. How does these examples you gave give us answers to how we are to follow God that are concrete?
  24. Could you list just 10 things in the scriptures that are concrete and not open to interpretation?
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