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california boy

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Everything posted by california boy

  1. Hey if you have some magical idea on how to solve the homeless problem, I am sure we are all ears. But when you start pitting one state against the other, I hope you also realize that states are not on a level playing field. One of the HUGE differences between Utah and California is the cost of housing. You are very naive about what it cost to buy or rent a home in California if you think Utah and California have similar factors. A 2022 study found that differences in per capita homelessness rates across the country are not due to mental illness, drug addiction, or poverty, but to differences in the cost of housing, with West Coast cities including Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, and Los Angeles having homelessness rates five times that of areas with much lower housing costs like Arkansas, West Virginia, and Detroit, even though the latter locations have high burdens of opioid addiction and poverty.[4][5][6][7] If housing costs in Salt Lake City jumped to between $2,760 and $4668, how many living in Salt Lake City would find themselves homeless and unable to pay rent? So far, I have yet to see some silver bullet from anywhere that solves the housing problem in this country. If you got one, then by all means speak up. But if you are just going to pit one state against the other, I think you need to be more thoughtful than just throwing out statistical bombs. It doesn't help the problem. The biggest problem California has is that too many people want to live here, which drives up housing costs. When we hear people might be leaving California, we celebrate. It might be the only way to get our housing costs down and ultimately reduce the main cause of homelessness.
  2. Not a surprise to me either. I was also one of those members who desperately wanted to figure out some way to make being gay and still be a member of the Church. I struggled with getting that to fit about half of my life. I know some white knuckle it for as long as they can. Some manage to make it work for their whole lives. Obviously if it works for them and that is how they want to live their lives, I have absolutely no problem with that. The sad part is, this is a very difficult struggle to navigate through. 83% of LGBT Mormons say the Church is unfriendly towards them. That is a pretty hight percentage who are pretty unhappy with how the Church treats them. It is why eventually most leave. Really a no win situation no matter what the choice because the Church forces them to make a choice. It becomes an either or situation. If that is how the Church wants to deal with this issue, then that is their choice as well. But in doing so, the Church looses a lot of really great people that become casualties of that dilemma. It is not just the Mormon Church. According to Pew, 48% say they have no religious affiliation, compared with 20% in the general public. This is true among all age groups. 80% say that the Mormon Church, as well as Catholic and Muslin say religion is unfriendly towards them. Evangelics don't do much better at 73%. If the goal of church is to bring people closer to God, they definitely are not doing a good job of that among the LGBT community.
  3. You are hiding behind terms like social construct. Would you agree that there have always been people who were attracted to their same sex throughout the history of the world long before it was labeled as a social construct? Being labeled gay may very well be a more modern term. But the definition of being gay is to be attracted to the same sex in a romantic emotional and intimate way. While formalizing that romantic and emotional connection may be new, the fact is, it has always existed. I think that is why you find yourself in the minority on this issue. I also think that you are not really open enough to be convinced that you might be wrong. You have held tightly to this belief for quite a while. I doubt very much that your views will change. It kinda makes further comment pretty fruitless.
  4. I think that is the point. Most people reject the premise you are trying to state that it is possible to set aside the notion of "sexual identity," Thanks for eloquently proving my point. -California Boy
  5. It would be interesting to see if you could actually set aside your "sexual identity" for just 6 months. I am not asking for you to do that for the rest of your life like the Church asks. Just 6 months. Could you put all your photos of your wife and kids in a drawer for 6 months since they are manifestations of your "sexual identity"? Could you not mention to anyone anything that you did on the weekend with your wife and kids since that is also an expression of your "sexual identity"? Could you never hold hands, kiss or hug your wife for 6 months since that is also an expression of your "sexual identity"? Could you not go on any dates with your wife for 6 months since that is also an expression of your "sexual identity"? Could you never be see in public with your wife and family for six months since this is also an expression of your "sexual identity"? This is just a start of the list of things that you would have to give up in order to set aside the notion of "sexual identity". And I haven't even gotten to the no sex for 6 months.
  6. Yeah, let's squash this idea that those outside the Celestial Kingdom will ever see their loved ones again. That is doctrine right? We know that for sure, because that is what they deserve for all eternity. I think God said this didn't He? Somewhere? That should scare them enough to stay in a Church they no longer believe in.
  7. Next, we will hear from Josh Weed as he tells how successful his marriage was, followed by Dave Matheson who will tell us how he was married for 34 yeas to a woman before he went back to being with men. Following those remarks, Tom Christofferson who went back to dating men after writing a book about his journey back to Mormonism. Their remarks will be followed up by our own @SeekingUnderstanding, @Daniel2 and me, @California Boy who will talk about their attempts at marriage to "cure" them of homosexuality by marrying someone of the opposite sex. The closing speaker for today will be David Archuleta who will put to rest this idea that if gay's just married, they too can be in a heterosexual marriage
  8. Next, we will hear from Josh Weed as he tells how successful his marriage was, followed by Dave Matheson who will tell us how he was married for 34 yeas to a woman before he went back to being with men. Following those remarks, Tom Christofferson who went back to dating men after writing a book about his journey back to Mormonism. Their remarks will be followed up by our own @SeekingUnderstanding, @Daniel2 and me, @California Boy who will talk about their attempts at marriage to "cure" them of homosexuality by marrying someone of the opposite sex. The closing speaker for today will be David Archuleta who will put to rest this idea that if gay's just married, they too can be in a heterosexual marriage.
  9. Like you, I thought a lot about the judgement of God. As much as I tried through fasting, prayer, and crying to God to not be gay, nothing ever changed. I was as gay as I was when I first realized it at age 12. I actually decided to go on a mission because in my mind, I thought that when I stood before God and he condemned me for being gay, I could at least say that I had given up two years of my life for Him. i even got married because Church leaders promised that if I just married a woman, these feelings and attractions I had for men would fade away. Yeah, that proved to be untrue. I am no longer ashamed to be gay. I have no regrets finding the love of my life and the many. joys and love that has brought into my life. God will do with me what he may. My hope, like Joseph Smiths is that if I am sent to hell, I will be with some of the finest people I have ever met.
  10. Oh I trust that God knows what he is doing. I highly doubt Church leaders know what they are doing concerning LGBT issues. There has been no revelation on gay marriage or what will happen to those who are LGBT in the next life. What kind of glorious reward is offered to someone who is LGBT? I have never heard anything from a revelation from God on this issue.
  11. I just listened to David Archuleta's new song that he just released. The lyrics are all about his journey leaving the Church and how much he valued the love his mother showed over his journey Here are the lyrics that I think are very interesting. The song is much more impactful than the words. Here is a link to Spotify https://open.spotify.com/album/6A7coJEq3Bh4g0hNjpjIHD. If you don't have Spotify, you can also find it on Apple Music, Pandora etc just type his name and the song title "Hell Together" I definitely identify with what he is saying here. I too was afraid of letting go of the version of me that I used to know while being in the Church. But I also realized that I would rather be in "Hell Together" with someone I love and can share this life with. And if the gates of heaven are closed to me, then it sounds like someone else's version of paradise. I think this is why many leave the Church. What the Church's teaches about the "Plan of Happiness" doesn't sound so happy for many. Not just the LGBT community, but for those that love friends/sons/daughters/fathers/ brothers/ that are LGBT. Not just LGBT people but as I read the thread on single members share many of the same disappointment of what the "Plan of Happiness" offers them both in this life and the next. "So let em close the gates If they don't like the way you're made Then they're not any better If Paradise is pressure Oh We'll go to Hell together " No matter what the reasons for leaving the Church are, whether it was the false narrative of Church history that we were taught our whole lives, the falling apart of Book of Mormon claims, or the Book of Abraham "written by the very hand of Abraham" claims or just not fitting into "The plan of Happiness", there are reasons why people have left to find a different path. We didn't leave because we no longer loved the company of the members and the many good things the Church does. You don't need to paint us all as hating the Church or attacking your faith, or leaving because we want to sin or are lazy learners, or whatever term is used to belittle our significants. You just have to decide if our criticism is an attack against the Church or us pointing out the things about the Church that make the tent much smaller than it needs to be and wish it was a bigger tent so that we too could fit. When @Analytics advocates for more financial transparency and a better effort to use the wealth of the Church on more humanitarian goals rather than a bigger portfolio, he is not attacking the Church. He is trying to get the Church to do better. Or @Teancum who corrects some of the false narrative that sometimes pops up. Or @Seeking Understanding and me, who wishes the Church had a better place for the LGBT community. They aren't attacks. They are things to consider to make the Church more honest, more accountable and a bigger tent.
  12. I just did a little math to see how that would look per ward in the Church. And I am the first to admit I am not the best at math, so if have this wrong, please correct me. But here is what I came up with. The Church has 17,000,000 members 70% of that would be 11,900,000 There are 24,277 wards That would mean each ward would have about 490 members per week attending. Does that sound about right? Are there really about 490 members attending each ward throughout the Church? If we take the Copilot AI numbers showing only 40% weekly attendance, that would be about 280 members attending weekly. Seems much closer to me to reality. 40% of 17,000,000 would be 6,800,000 attending There are 24,277 wards That would be about 280 members attending weekly in every single ward in the Church.
  13. I heard just the opposite. Straight couples will spend eternity together as passionless roommates who no longer have any romantic desires for each other. Gays will now be able to spend eternity having passionate love and wild sex with their married spouses for eternity. Payback is a b***h.
  14. So sorry to hear this. It is hard to hear. I have a daughter in her 40’s and never married. I am pretty sure she has given up getting married and all the promises that go with that. I feel like she is also caught in the middle. Too Mormon to fit with the non-Mormon crowd and just not seeing any future with the single adult crowd. I wish I could give her some advice but I also see no path forward for her. She has become the best ever aunt to my grandchildren however and I hope in some small way that helps her on the up side, you make being gay sound like a cake walk
  15. I have tried a couple of times to take your survey. But I feel like my answers distort exactly how I feel about the questions, so I haven't taken the survey. I am not blaming you. I appreciate your effort. But I think this issue is more complicated than the options given for answers. Given the format you have to use, I don't really think I could come up with a survey that would yield the results you are looking for either. So good effort, but doesn't work for me.
  16. If you would have just clicked on the link, you would have found that it is a link to an actual talk by the grandson of Elder Oaks, not some random commentary. And the second link is link to a Tribune article quoting Elder Gong's son. But hey, I guess you need some excuse to ignore what you don't want to hear about. Probably better to just ignore it rather coming up with some lame and disingenuous excuse.
  17. The thread may have started out about an anonymous survey, but the thread has been about labeling the LGBT community. If the survey provided any data concerning how members wish to be addressed, then you might have a point. There is no data on that question making it pretty difficult to be able to answer in a general way, which is why I suggest just asking someone if you don't know. There is however quite a bit of evidence on how the LGBT community wishes to be referred to in general, and it is not someone having same sex attraction. Can we agree on that? I to am trying to find common ground.
  18. @Bluebell, I want to thank you personally for this post. It honestly means a lot to me. One hears pretty regularly that the Church is making progress in how it treats the LGBT community. I truly want to believe that. Then I read a thread like this and think that while the Church has said some hopeful statements, it is pretty clear that there are a lot of members who have no interest in reaching out towards the LGBT community with any kind of respect and understanding, to the point where they even argue over how that community prefers to be addressed. If members can not even show enough respect to address gay people with respect and not impose their own labels, then just how far has the Church actually come??? And yes, I am very aware how few members have reached out to offer respect towards how the LGBT community prefers to be addressed.
  19. Several times in this thread I have recognized that there are those who prefer the term Same Sex Attraction, but those are very much outliners. I have stated that if that is their preference, then by all means do not use the term gay in addressing them. If you are unsure how the person prefers to be addressed, I would always say, just ask them. What this thread has been about is the generally accepted terms the LGBT community prefers to use. It is pretty clear what the preferred terminology the LGBT community prefers. (GLADD is a very good place to look if you are unsure). It has been my experience that the vast majority in the gay community dislike the whole SSA label that they consider it not a neutral term at all, but one that has been used largely by the religious community to marginalize them and is an attempt to deny not just their attraction towards other men, but to discount the real connection and emotional feelings gay men have for each other. It is an insult to me to call my relationship with my partner of over 15 years as just being same sex attraction. I doubt any straight man wants his relationship with his partner referred to as Opposite Sex Attraction. I have had quite a bit of interaction with members of the Church that identify as gay over the past 25 years. I was involved in the Evergreen program the Church used to funnel its gay members into before it went defunct. None of those members wanted to be referred to as having SSA. I also have quite a few member and former members that are gay. They also prefer the term gay. You can not assume a quarter of a million gay members want that label just because they are members of the Church. Is all I am saying is be sensitive and respectful and not automatically assume you know more than gay members or the LGBT community what they prefer to be referred as. I don't think that is a lot to ask for.
  20. How many besides me are sick and tired of straight Smac explaining to gay people what they should be called and what they are comfortable with being referred to? I clearly understand how offensive it is to mansplain to women. Now we have a guy who is straightsplaining to gays. The epitome of arrogance.
  21. You didn't answer the question. You made up your own questions and answered them. If you want to try answering the question I asked, then please do. If you want to write an entire page of unrelated statements that do not answer the question then please don't bother wasting my time and yours. The question was a what if question meant to help you understand the way the Church treats LGBT members in a way that I hoped you would relate to. Here is the question again. Try answering it honestly or ignore it. I really don't care.
  22. Seriously? You are now going to argue with me and GLADD and the vast majority of the LGBT community on preferred terms? You really think you are the expert here on preferred terms of the LGBT community? There is a HUGE difference between a scientific study on same sex attraction and labeling someone as having same sex attraction. You obviously do not care one bit about what the LGBT community thinks. You only care about your own agenda. That is become crystal clear.
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