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california boy

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Everything posted by california boy

  1. I really can't follow what you are talking about. The scripture I referenced is clearly talking about dogs receiving scraps from the masters table. If you want to compare homosexuality to dogs, it says more about you than it does enlightenment of some scriptural passage.
  2. wow. I honestly didn't see that happening. Congratulations to Church leaders for respecting the right to marry for gay couples.
  3. Do you know what the exact questions are asked to remain at BYU? I don't. It might shed some light on this question. I would like to know all the facts before I answer your question.
  4. Not sure how this has any relevance to what we are discussing. Maybe instead of just quoting the Bible, you might want to explain why you decided to quote those particular verses.
  5. You missed the point of my post. I was only comparing the Church gaming the tax system with those students that game BYU when they no longer believe.
  6. So since there has been no revelation on gay marriage, you are basing your beliefs on. what? fallible men and their own prejudices. I can understand that. Not the first time members have taken that position. Well actually you would have to admit that there is nothing in the scriptures EITHER way. So you have no scriptural support in any modern scripture for your position either. Yeah I agree. Except you have no modern scripture or revelation stating that homosexual behavior is sinful do you. Once again, you are basing this on fallible men. That is fine. But you can't claim that God has revealed that belief. What we do have in the words of Christ is to look to see if something bears good fruit. Hummm. Well, if the temple and priesthood is important for one's salvation, and if that salvation is important for all of God's children, then I think you have your answer. It is the same question one asks if it is important for Blacks to hold the priesthood and receive temple blessings You are comparing apples to oranges. Adultery has been condemned in all scripture and that condemnation is quite clearly spelled out. Now if a gay couple was having sex outside their marriage, you might have a point. Can you point to a scripture that says clearly that married gay couples are committing a sin? How about a revelation? Understand, that I really don't care whether the Church accepts gay marriage. Is all I am pointing out is that the Church has followed this exact path before. The only difference is there were a heck of a lot more scriptures supporting their position that Blacks could not hold the priesthood and interracial marriage was sinful. There was even a claimed revelation on this doctrine. The Church does what it wants. But on this issue it doesn't even claim that this position of gay married couples being in sin came from any thing they can even point to except the opinion of fallible leaders. I don't really blame you for holding that position. I remember being a missionary defending the false belief that God didn't want blacks to have the priesthood. I had a revelation to support this belief. I even had the words of Christ to support that position that I was taught to quote investigators. (Matthew 15) I was taught to explain to investigators that the woman was from Canaan which means she was probably black. And it just wasn't time for Blacks to receive the gospel. I thought what I was teaching came from God. It was not. I was just relying on the same things you are now currently relying on. Maybe that is enough for you. I totally understand.
  7. But that isn't the point. The Church has drawn a line in the sand to exclude a whole classification of people simply because they are gay couples rather than straight couples without any revelation either. Just assumptions of fallible Church leaders that grew up with prejudices against homosexuality. They have no scriptural or revelatory basis to make such an assumption. Even more than that, I think most people can now see that gay couples can have very successful and loving families. Should not those families be able to participate in the blessings of the temple and priesthood? If you say no, what the heck are you basing that on? This is what sounds familiar.
  8. It doesn't really matter what the intent is of those that wrote the Bible about homosexuality. People believe what they want to believe. The Church has dug it's heels in on this issue despite the fact that Christ never mentioned that homosexuals should be barred from full blessings of God. Nor did the Book of Mormon. Nor did the Pearl of Great Price. Nor did the D & C. There is noting in the scriptures that prohibits gay couples from being allowed the full blessings of the priesthood and temple covenants. In fact, there is absolutely no revelation prohibiting gay couples from those blessings and ordinances. Nothing. Just the opinion of fallible men. Maybe God is preparing the Church and waiting another generation until the Church members can accept that gay families can be valued just as much as their own families. Does any of this have any familiarity to anyone?
  9. Is this the same reasoning why God has not lifted the priesthood and temple ban on LGBT couples?
  10. If you don't think that Jesus radically changed the religion of His day, do you believe that Judaism and Christianity are pretty much the same and there was no real importance to the messages Christ taught that are not found in Judaism. Keep in mind that the religious leaders of His religion were so up in arms with what Christ was doing that the hung Him on the Cross. They viewed what Christ was doing was nothing short of being a radical departure from their doctrinal messages and practices. He brought his message to the people and only talked to the religious leaders when they directly confronted Him. This notion that Christ wasn't one of the biggest agitators in the history of religion is a complete denial of what Christ spent whole time doing and the results from that activism. The Jewish sheep followed the church leaders without questioning. The ones that followed Christ were drawn away from Judaism and into a totally different way of thinking about God's principles.
  11. You didn't say that, which is why I asked if you could clarify your belief. You said that you believe the Church is lead by revelation when discussing the priesthood ban. So I am curious how that belief actually works, which is why I asked So is it your belief that God wanted to withhold priesthood and the blessings because they were black?? And God wanted it that way until 1978? Is this also the Church's view on the ban as well? And if the Priesthood Ban never was a revelation, why didn't God end it 25 years earlier when President McKay prayed about it? Did God thing it was just a good idea to. keep it around for another 25 years? I am trying to figure out how you believe revelation about this subject works in your mind. .
  12. So is it your belief that God wanted to withhold priesthood and the blessings because they were black?? And God wanted it that way until 1978? Is this also the Church's view on the ban as well? And if the Priesthood Ban never was a revelation, why didn't God end it 25 years earlier when President McKay prayed about it? Did God thing it was just a good idea to. keep it around for another 25 years?
  13. Maybe I could put it in a different perspective for you. You obviously are very proud that the Church figured out a way of getting out of paying taxes by funneling the money through BYU. Can I ask how many people you have passed the video on to others to show them how clever the Church has been?
  14. I think it is pretty clear that Christ taught that breaking the spirit of the law was sinful. So yes. It is like saying it is ok to do drugs because the wow doesn't specifically say you can't do crack. Should we approach all the laws of God with this attitude? Just get to as close to that line as possible just as long as we aren't breaking the law? Reminds me of BYU students getting naked and rubbing their bodies next to each other and claiming that they didn't break the law of chastity.
  15. I personally didn't know that the Church was funneling money from Canada and Australia to avoid paying income tax in countries that don't have tax exemptions for religious organizations. Maybe you did. And hey, if this is all up front and out in the open, then there should not be any problem in broadcasting these programs to educate the citizens of those countries and the members to know exactly what is going on.
  16. Because the intent of the law as is reported in the TV program, it is stated is that money going out of Canada to education should benefit Canadians that are outside of the country. Less than 2% of all BYU students are Canadian. Yet for those 2%, a billion dollars has been funneled to BYU.
  17. Do you believe that lying is only when someone doesn't tell the truth? Or can it also be the intent to deceive?
  18. Did you even watch the video? Are you really ok with doing anything that is legal as long as it is a recognized church organization? You might want to also watch this video. (warning, there is language in the video. Sorry I can't beep it.)
  19. The Church may be following the letter of the law, but certainly not the spirit of the law. Either way, it doesn't look like tithing dollars are being used to fund BYU, it is tax avoidance dollars.
  20. Seems to me, the same people complaining about the students gaming the system are the same ones justifying the Church gaming the tax loophole.
  21. You obviously are not reading how the Church exports tithing money that should be taxed to BYU in order to avoid taxes. If they didn't do that, the money collected would be paid to the government, which is what my post is about.
  22. We have had quite a few threads about some BYU students staying at BYU to finish their education even though they no longer have any belief in the Church and plan to leave the Church once they graduate. TBM's have complained that those students were inappropriately using tithing money to help pay for their education. Turns out no tithing money is used to support BYU. Billions goes to BYU from a tax write off from Australia and Canada. If the Church didn't funnel the money to BYU, it would have gone to taxes. You can't complain about students gaming the system when the Church also games the system.
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