Possible Hebrew Sources For Nephite Words: Neas And Sheum

[Olavarria]

Neas

Probably netz(נֵץ), literally blossoms(Genesis 40:10).

Sheum

Has the same root as sheuit(תשעועי), beans. The terminal –it is a feminine determinative.

I don’t know if this word predates or postdates Lehi though. Anyone have a good Hebrew-Aramaic Lexicon?

[volgadon]

I posted on this last year, or maybe the year before. The root of the word is the same as that for plastering something over. Although mainly applied to black-eyed peas it seems that it was used for any heavy foods.

[Olavarria]

I posted on this last year, or maybe the year before. The root of the word is the same as that for plastering something over. Although mainly applied to black-eyed peas it seems that it was used for any heavy foods.

So is it in the Bible? Where? I think I read it once in some obscure verse in 1 or 2 Samuel.

[cdowis]

sheum== you need an akkadian lexicon.

Edited November 12, 2011 by cdowis

[Kenngo1969]

Boy, that Joseph Smith sure was a lucky fella, guessin' all them words right!

[Olavarria]

sheum== you need an akkadian lexicon.

You might be right. However, because Lehi and his family were Israelites living in Judea in 600 BC, Hebrew etymologies are favored over those of other ancient near-eastern languages; because of his familiarity with Egyptian script, Egyptian comes second, with other Semitic languages such as Ugaritic and Akkadian being used as a last resort.

[cdowis]

You might be right. However, because Lehi and his family were Israelites living in Judea in 600 BC, Hebrew etymologies are favored over those of other ancient near-eastern languages; because of his familiarity with Egyptian script, Egyptian comes second, with other Semitic languages such as Ugaritic and Akkadian being used as a last resort.

There are a couple of possibilities, from an Old World source (which you reject) or also from the New World (which you missed):

1. Don't think of it as "Akkadian" but as a loan word, just as etc, viz, are not latin but english words loaned from the Latin. When someone uses etc, they don't think of it as Latin.

2. They got it directly or indirectly from the Jaredites (through the "others"). This possibility suggests that the Akkadians had it as a loan word themselves and was not directly transmitted to the Nephites in the Middle East. They only started using it in the New World.

Edited November 13, 2011 by cdowis

[LeSellers]

When someone uses etc, they don't think of it as Latin.

I do.

Every time.

And à la and vis-à-vis are French; gelato is Italian; kowtow, Chinese, etc.

Lehi

[Vance]

I do.

Every time.

And à la and vis-à-vis are French; gelato is Italian; kowtow, Chinese, etc.

Lehi

And boondocks is Tagalog (Philippino)

And Bataan is nearly always pronounced wrong. Each "a" is annunciated as "aw" for three syllables.

Ba-ta-an.

Edited November 13, 2011 by Vance

[cinepro]

I'm not any sort of linguist, but I do find it odd that all the theories I've seen try to tie words in the Book of Mormon to old-world languages. At some point in the thousand-year history of the Book of Mormon people, it might be interesting if they had started using new world words for things. It might be highly unlikely that Joseph would get random words right from the Bible, but it would definitely be more interesting if Nephites were calling corn "ho'loch" and horses "tzimin".

[Bernard Gui]

Taco and burrito are Spanish.

And à la and vis-à-vis are French; gelato is Italian; kowtow, Chinese, etc.

Lehi

[blackstrap]

MMMMmmmmm..... gelato

[volgadon]

I'm not any sort of linguist, but I do find it odd that all the theories I've seen try to tie words in the Book of Mormon to old-world languages. At some point in the thousand-year history of the Book of Mormon people, it might be interesting if they had started using new world words for things. It might be highly unlikely that Joseph would get random words right from the Bible, but it would definitely be more interesting if Nephites were calling corn "ho'loch" and horses "tzimin".

Not when dealing with a literary, archaic language.

[volgadon]

Pedro, I'll look for some more on sheu'it.

[Calm]

I'm not any sort of linguist, but I do find it odd that all the theories I've seen try to tie words in the Book of Mormon to old-world languages. At some point in the thousand-year history of the Book of Mormon people, it might be interesting if they had started using new world words for things. It might be highly unlikely that Joseph would get random words right from the Bible, but it would definitely be more interesting if Nephites were calling corn "ho'loch" and horses "tzimin".

http://mimobile.byu.edu/?m=5&table=insights&vol=6&num=1&id=718

[Stargazer]

I do.

Every time.

And à la and vis-à-vis are French; gelato is Italian; kowtow, Chinese, etc.

Lehi

Oh, come on, Lehi. You know darned well and good that you're a big exception, at least when comparing yourself to the mythical Everyman. Or you should. Knowledgeable people frequently make the assumption that everyone around them is just as knowledgeable. This is not a reasonable assumption. In my observation, pretty much everyone posting in this forum is pretty smart (myself being a possible exception) and are aware of most of the more common foreign-language loan-words in English. But this does not necessarily apply to everyone else, or even the majority. I am acquainted with lots of people who neither know nor care that et cetera is from the Latin (I've even run into someone -- a relative -- who was convinced it is ex cetera and was prepared to defend his position on the subject with enthusiasm). I know this observation sounds self-congratulatory, but that doesn't save it from being true.

[Olavarria]

Pedro, I'll look for some more on sheu'it.

thank you

I think that sheu-it was changed from the feminine singular determinitive -it to masucline plural -im, but i have no idea why.

[LeSellers]

Oh, come on, Lehi. You know darned well and good that you're a big exception, at least when comparing yourself to the mythical Everyman.

I rarely compare myself to "everyman", and, in those areas where I am educated (even those in which that education came from a <shudder> school) I know others may not have that same background.

But the claim was "[w]hen someone uses etc, they don't think of it as Latin". I interpreted this to mean that no one thinks of "etc." as Latin, that it has been completely absorbed into English. I am an exception to this "rule", that's all I meant. I am one who loves language as a concept, not merely as a tool. I know that's odd, odd to the point, in some minds, as being completely weird.

Lehi

Edited November 14, 2011 by LeSellers