MiserereNobis

I miss Mark, too.

I absolutely believe it is continual. God is the source of being and creates our being, just as the Son is begotten from the Father continually. He is not the clock maker of the deists.

Neither does the Catholic Church, as dogma can be, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, refined, understood better, and declared.

Do you believe in continuing revelation? or is the primitive Christian Church held to stricter standards than the LDS church when it comes to source material?

In the other thread, I pointed out how weird it is that you always focus on getting joy out of seeing other people finding out they are wrong. Over the years, you have also consistently discussed resurrected genitalia. That is also very weird, especially because you think it is some sort of gotcha. First, you act like Christians over the past 2000 years, including some of the most intelligent and educated minds of western civilization, never considered these things. Second, I’ll say it clearly: resurrected humans have penises and vaginas. Can we move on? Or do you still want to discuss genitals?

Why do you always post about how happy you are going to be to see someone find out they are wrong? It’s really… gross. No room for metaphors and figurative language in your life, eh?

You should hear the Grateful Dead talk about improvisation and the group mind, where they are simply observing the music play itself through them as one being. And don’t worry about Rush coming to your mind. The Grateful Dead comes to my mind in all sorts of threads 😁

Not every church necessarily claims that. And the Catholic Church doesn’t jump through hoops; it most definitely openly states it. You can read all about the Catholic Church’s history. How are we not open about our history? It’s the history of Europe. Which is an absolute shame. Which was absolutely wrong and terrible, as stated by 2 popes who condemned it and asked forgiveness. Earlier you spoke against presentism. You might consider that here, too. Also size and politics come into play. Finally, there were the Danites.

LDS friends, We've had a couple of these threads over the years, where Rory, me, Damien the Leper, and other Catholics discuss Catholic issues on your board. I just want to say thank you for letting us have a thread or two here and there when there are things that we wish to discuss in our religion, even though it is barely tangential to Mormonism (I use that term to encompass LDS teaching, practice, doctrine, and culture). Though I did enjoy Rory's half-joking idea that the SSPX are the Catholic version of restorationists Thanks!

I totally agree that the new mass isn't intrinsically irreverent. When priests follow the Vatican II documents, we're all good Do you remember when Pope Benedict XVI celebrated the Novus Ordo in Latin, ad orientam, chant, "smells and bells" and all? Sounds like you have a wonderful parish. Slow moves, as is the Catholic way. (But I'll still stick with FSSP )

Rory, where do you attend now? A traditionally minded diocesan parish? FSSP? The FSSP coming to my area was a godsend for me and others. I’m out of town this weekend, but I am curious if any who attend the SSPX chapel will come join us. My guess is no, but then again I don’t think anyone was expecting that harsh of a punishment coming from Rome.

I attended an SSPX chapel 15 years ago or so for about 2 years. My main reason was the liturgy: the Traditional Latin Mass is beautiful and conveys Catholic truth beautifully. I was part of the Schola (the group that performs the chants for the Mass) for awhile and really enjoyed that. I made some friends, but never fully participated in parish life because I lived an hour away. I did not get involved in their controversies. I fully believed that Vatican II and its documents were valid. The problem was implementation, and frankly many parts of the documents are ignored and even contradicted by current church practices. For example, the document on liturgy says that vernacular may be used but Latin should be retained and that Gregorian chant holds “pride of place.” About the only place you can find Gregorian chant is at a Traditional Latin Mass, however. Quick note to non-Catholics: The Traditional Latin Mass is different in more than language. I took an acquaintance once, a devout Catholic who had never been nor studied it, and he said it felt like a different religious service altogether. Traditionalists would call me “smells and bells” (incense and the ringing of the bells at the consecration of the Host) because I loved the beauty of the liturgy but did not subscribe to the underlying “dogmas” of the SSPX. The bishop of the diocese realized he had many many Catholics who wanted the traditional liturgy and that the SSPX was “poaching” them. So he wisely invited the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter (FSSP) to set up shop in an old beautiful church. This society was formed in 1988 when the SSPX did their first illicit consecration of bishops. A group of SSPX priests disagreed with the break from the pope and so formed it with with papal approval and are in full communion with the pope. When they showed up, I switched to them.

No, creation is good. God proclaimed it as such. What do you mean by "incompatible"? God is not made of physical matter; God is not a creation, He is the Creator. God is not finite; He is infinite. In that sense he is not "compatible" with matter because He is not matter. But that does not mean He is at odds with matter, or He and matter oppose each other. Contrarily, God the Father creates, sustains, and acts through matter. No metaphysical incompatibility there. Ok, and yet... The Incarnation! No, you've got it backwards. The Incarnation highlights that God IS compatible with matter, because He became matter, became flesh. I haven't heard any Catholic say that the Incarnation broke the rules of God's nature. Yes, Jesus is a paradox in the sense that he is 100% human and 100% God, but that paradox is a mystery to human understanding, not a breaking of what God is.

Catholicism does not teach that God would be defiled if He touched matter. As you rightly point out, that is a Gnostic heresy. While God is immaterial, matter is not defiling. The Incarnation is God choosing to be embodied! It's interesting reading the accounts of the Franciscan Friars who accompanied the Spanish conquistadors: their view of the undefiled beauty of nature is quite in contrast with the Puritans on the east coast. In Catholicism, matter is not defiled, unholy, or evil. Quite the opposite: matter is used sacramentally. And St. Francis's "Canticle of the Sun" is a wonderful prayer/song showing how nature and matter praise God.

I apologize, I thought you were Protestant (capital P). My understanding is that Anabaptists were Protestants, but I have not studied it and obviously defer to you.