Living after the Manner of Happiness and more Abundantly

[bluebell]

I've always liked that verse in 2 Nephi where Nephi says:

"And it came to pass that we lived after the manner of happiness."

But I've also wondered what he meant by it.  Same with "having life more abundantly" like it says in the NT.  How does one do that exactly?  What does that mean?  Someone mentioned it in sacrament meeting today and it reminded me that I've been meaning to ask about it on here for a while.

I know there are plenty of commentaries on it but I'm wondering about people's thoughts here.

[CV75]

25 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I've always liked that verse in 2 Nephi where Nephi says:

"And it came to pass that we lived after the manner of happiness."

But I've also wondered what he meant by it.  Same with "having life more abundantly" like it says in the NT.  How does one do that exactly?  What does that mean?  Someone mentioned it in sacrament meeting today and it reminded me that I've been meaning to ask about it on here for a while.

I know there are plenty of commentaries on it but I'm wondering about people's thoughts here.

In 2 Nephi 5, Nephi talks about his people and the Lamanites, and from this I see how his people lived after the manner of happiness (the fruits of commitments to family, God and church):

v. 6 and 10 they heeded the warnings and revelations of God, trusted each other, sustained their prophet and kept the law of Moses

v. 11 the prospered in agriculture and herding

v.12 they possessed and used the brass plates and other sacred relics

v. 13 the prospered and multiplied

v. 15 they built buildings, worked in wood and metals

v. 16 they had a temple

v. 17 they were industrious

v. 24 they were not cursed, idle, mischievous and subtle (sneaky), and more advanced/independent than a hunter-gatherer lifestyle

v. 26 they had the priesthood

[MustardSeed]

2 hours ago, bluebell said:

I've always liked that verse in 2 Nephi where Nephi says:

"And it came to pass that we lived after the manner of happiness."

But I've also wondered what he meant by it.  Same with "having life more abundantly" like it says in the NT.  How does one do that exactly?  What does that mean?  Someone mentioned it in sacrament meeting today and it reminded me that I've been meaning to ask about it on here for a while.

I know there are plenty of commentaries on it but I'm wondering about people's thoughts here.

Doesn’t it seem that in discussions at church that it’s assumed “abundance”means financial wealth and ownership?

And in the church , it seems as though discussion supports that active  membership is the only source of “true” happiness. 

My husband researched the happiest people on earth and from what he read it’s Finland.  Access to health, education, meals shared with friends and family at least weekly, and other things I can’t recall.  It didn’t mention money or membership in the COJCOLDS. 
 

Edit (FWIW): 

• High Levels of Trust and Freedom:

  Finns tend to trust their government, public officials, and neighbors, and the country is known for its transparency and low levels of corruption. 

   

• Focus on Well-being:

  Finland prioritizes well-being through policies that support work-life balance, access to nature, and mental health resources. 

   

• Access to Nature:

  Finns have a strong connection to nature, with many spending time in forests, lakes, and other natural areas, which is believed to contribute to their well-being and happiness. 

   

• Gender Equality:

  Finland has one of the most gender-equal societies in the world, with women well represented in parliament and other decision-making positions. 

   

• High Quality of Public Services:

  Public services in Finland, such as healthcare, education, and infrastructure, are known for their efficiency and quality. 

   

• Low Income Inequality:

  Finland has relatively low income inequality, meaning there's less of a gap between the richest and poorest, which contributes to social cohesion and a sense of fairness. 

   

• Strong Culture of Volunteerism:

  A culture of volunteerism and community involvement further strengthens social bonds and contributes to a sense of belonging. 

   

• Simple Pleasures:

  Finns are known for appreciating simple pleasures like clean air, pure water, and spending time in nature. 

   

• "Sisu" Mentality:

• Strong Social Safety Net:

  Finland has a robust welfare system that provides comprehensive healthcare, education, and unemployment benefits, reducing economic insecurity and fostering a sense of security for its citizens. 

   

 

Edited March 30, 2025 by MustardSeed

[Calm]

31 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

Doesn’t it seem that in discussions at church that it’s assumed “abundance”means financial wealth and ownership?

A lot of times, especially when they talk of helping others out of your abundance.

32 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

My husband researched the happiest people on earth and from what he read it’s Finland.  

These studies can be a problem because they may use different measures of what happiness is.  What researchers see as important to happiness is often what is measured rather than some independent measure of happiness.

When we lived in Canada, we figured out we lived in the best place in the world because according to one study, Canada was the best country, another showed Calgary was the best city in Canada to live in and our neighbourhood was judged best in the city.  In another study, Calgary was rated best in the world for getting migraines (I had some doozies up there) and my guess is the first three studies didn’t take that variable into account.

[MustardSeed]

Just now, Calm said:

A lot of times, especially when they talk of helping others out of your abundance.

These studies can be a problem because they may use different measures of what happiness is.  What researchers see as important to happiness is often what is measured rather than some independent measure of happiness.

When we lived in Canada, we figured out we lived in the best place in the world because according to one study, Canada was the best country, another showed Calgary was the best city in Canada to live in and our neighbourhood was judged best in the city.  In another study, Calgary was rated best in the world for getting migraines (I had some doozies up there) and my guess is the first three studies didn’t take that variable into account.

Which is exactly why I’m not moving to Finland, ever.  No matter what google says ! 

[The Nehor]

Nephi seems to think they lived happily but his brother Jacob whose life overlapped Nephi’s had a very different take:

Quote

And it came to pass that I, Jacob, began to be old; and the record of this people being kept on the other plates of Nephi, wherefore, I conclude this record, declaring that I have written according to the best of my knowledge, by saying that the time passed away with us, and also our lives passed away like as it were unto us a dream, we being a lonesome and a solemn people, wanderers, cast out from Jerusalem, born in tribulation, in a wilderness, and hated of our brethren, which caused wars and contentions; wherefore, we did mourn out our days.

He is a bit of a downer.

[Benjamin McGuire]

6 hours ago, The Nehor said:

He is a bit of a downer.

Yeah - but - consider that this is the way that he framed most of his life. He starts his book with Psalm 95 - in 1:7 he tells us:

Quote

Wherefore we labored diligently among our people, that we might persuade them to come unto Christ, and partake of the goodness of God, that they might enter into his rest, lest by any means he should swear in his wrath they should not enter in, as in the provocation in the days of temptation while the children of Israel were in the wilderness.

And from the Psalm:

Quote

To day if ye will hear his voice, Harden not your heart, as in the provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness: When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my work. Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways: Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.

1 and 2 Nephi are so engaged with the idea that the Nephite migration is a second Exodus. Jacob is carrying this through. For Jacob, the brief period they live in the promised land before they leave because of the growing split with the 'Lamanites' becomes that brief moment when Israel (with Moses) see their promised land and then are left to stay in the wilderness for that 40 years. The Book of Jacob is highlighted by the sins of the people (the sins that Jacob believes are keeping them from being able to return out of the wilderness to their land of promise). And so, even though they have built a new city, and they are prospering, Jacob never loses that sense that they are still wanderers in the wilderness. This is the context for the last two verses that Jacob closes his book with - and the reason why he compares himself (and his people) to that generation of Israelites wandering in the wilderness before Joshua leads them across the river into their promised land. Psalm 95 frames the entirety of Jacob's book. It is a brilliant piece of literature.

While early Mormonism also saw in some ways their trek west as another Exodus, they were able to move right in to their promised land. They never got to imitate the 40 years in the wilderness (although there are echoes of a return in the material about the temple sites in Missouri).

[bluebell]

19 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

Doesn’t it seem that in discussions at church that it’s assumed “abundance”means financial wealth and ownership?

And in the church , it seems as though discussion supports that active  membership is the only source of “true” happiness. 

My husband researched the happiest people on earth and from what he read it’s Finland.  Access to health, education, meals shared with friends and family at least weekly, and other things I can’t recall.  It didn’t mention money or membership in the COJCOLDS. 
 

Edit (FWIW): 

• High Levels of Trust and Freedom:

  Finns tend to trust their government, public officials, and neighbors, and the country is known for its transparency and low levels of corruption. 

   

• Focus on Well-being:

  Finland prioritizes well-being through policies that support work-life balance, access to nature, and mental health resources. 

   

• Access to Nature:

  Finns have a strong connection to nature, with many spending time in forests, lakes, and other natural areas, which is believed to contribute to their well-being and happiness. 

   

• Gender Equality:

  Finland has one of the most gender-equal societies in the world, with women well represented in parliament and other decision-making positions. 

   

• High Quality of Public Services:

  Public services in Finland, such as healthcare, education, and infrastructure, are known for their efficiency and quality. 

   

• Low Income Inequality:

  Finland has relatively low income inequality, meaning there's less of a gap between the richest and poorest, which contributes to social cohesion and a sense of fairness. 

   

• Strong Culture of Volunteerism:

  A culture of volunteerism and community involvement further strengthens social bonds and contributes to a sense of belonging. 

   

• Simple Pleasures:

  Finns are known for appreciating simple pleasures like clean air, pure water, and spending time in nature. 

   

• "Sisu" Mentality:

• Strong Social Safety Net:

  Finland has a robust welfare system that provides comprehensive healthcare, education, and unemployment benefits, reducing economic insecurity and fostering a sense of security for its citizens. 

   

 

I had to stop and think if I had ever heard anyone comment on living an abundant life in SS or RS.  I can't remember ever hearing anyone do that but I'm guessing they have.  Whatever they said must not have stuck with me.  I hope I would have commented back if someone did try to connect it to wealth and ownership because I grew up poor with my parents not even being able to buy a house until I was in my 20s.  I have always considered them to have an abundant life so I can't imagine myself not bristling at any implication that money had anything to do with it.

That's interesting about Finland.  I was reading a book where someone was talking about serving food in a church in a dumb in Mexico with a minister every morning.  It was simple food and it was usually the only meal of the day, including for the minister, his wife and six or seven kids.  But she remarked how happy they all were, way happier than she was with all of her abundance living in the US and being upper middle class.

Sometimes it seems like the more we have, the less happy we are.

[bluebell]

12 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Nephi seems to think they lived happily but his brother Jacob whose life overlapped Nephi’s had a very different take:

He is a bit of a downer.

Jacob really does seem like someone who wouldn't appreciate dad jokes. 

[Calm]

2 hours ago, bluebell said:

had to stop and think if I had ever heard anyone comment on living an abundant life in SS or RS.  I can't remember ever hearing anyone do that but I'm guessing they have.

This made me wonder why I had the impression that “abundance” is maybe not frequently mentioned, but not that rare of a topic at church.  I agree I haven’t heard “abundant life” that much, but “abundance” feels like a ‘familiar’ topic.

So I did a search on conference talks (wish there was a database for church magazines like this one) and pulled up this.

Now I need to go look at the individual references to see if they connect with financial wealth, but got an appointment, so that will come later.  The first hit I got on LDS.org where I went before I thought of this was a 1971 talk.   https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/1971/04/the-law-of-abundance?lang=eng#title1
 

Quote

Regardless of the difficulties existing in the world today, we as a people must recognize that we have been blessed abundantly with the resources of this world; yet we know that whatever we have is the Lord’s and that he has blessed us with these things to see how we will use them.

I think it might be said, Life is God’s greatest gift to man, and what we do with our life is our gift to God.

President Brigham Young, in referring to making our life a gift to God, had this to say: “Our religion is worth everything to us and for it we should be willing to employ our time, our talent, our means, our energies, our lives.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 11, p. 119.)

And, “If we do right, there will be an eternal increase among this people in talent, strength and intellect, and earthly wealth, from this time, henceforth, and forever.” (JD, vol. 1, p. 110.)

“No blessing that is sealed upon us will do us any good unless we live for it.” (JD, vol. 11, p. 117.)

It is interesting to note that here, as elsewhere in the scriptures, promises of earthly wealth and increased talents are made to those who live the gospel principles, and counsel is given to use our talents and wealth for the building of the kingdom. Many scriptures, however, contain words of admonition regarding temptations brought about through the acquisition of wealth and its use for unrighteous purposes.

 

Quote

Throughout the history of the Church its leaders have taught the value of the principles of work, industry, and thrift; and as they have been practiced, Church members have prospered in numerous ways. Likewise, members have been counseled to establish and maintain their economic independence, and employment-creating industries have been encouraged.

In furtherance of these teachings, every man who has property and means should live so as to obtain wisdom to know how to use them in the best possible way to produce the greatest amount of good for himself, for his family, for his fellowmen, and for the kingdom of God.

Again quoting from President Young: “When this people are prepared to properly use the riches of this world for the building up of the Kingdom of God, He is ready and willing to bestow them upon us. I like to see men get rich by their industry, prudence, management and economy, and then devote it to the building up of the Kingdom of God upon the earth.” (JD, vol. 2, pp. 114–15.)

The focus of the talk is not on his Saints can become wealthy, but what we are supposed to do with that wealth.  This is the theme I remember as typically focused on in reference to abundance/wealth. (The talk is from a time when there were a lot more funds Saints needed to contribute to and the Church was still in recovery mode from major debt).

Quote

In this dispensation the Lord has said, “Thou shalt not covet thine own property, but impart it freely.” (D&C 19:26.)

As we consider ourselves trustees of wealth for the benefit of God’s children, we should not worship property, whether it be of great or small value. If we are guilty of worshiping property, then we have need to repent and straighten out our values.

A person who places the wealth of this world in the scales against the things of God evidences little understanding of eternal values.

We talk about making sacrifices to build the kingdom of God, but the word to me is a misnomer—to be able to participate in building the kingdom is a great privilege and blessing.

Since the 70s were my teens when my first real impressions of comments at church were likely solidified (since many talks at church have been harder to understand or even care about long enough to remember), that may be why it feels more common to me (70s being the high point for using “abundance” and “abundant” since the early Church).

PS:  “wealth” has been steadily used less over the years, though it could refer to wealth of knowledge kind of things, need to check that out later as well.

 

https://www.lds-general-conference.org

Edited March 31, 2025 by Calm

[MustardSeed]

1 minute ago, Calm said:

This made me wonder why I had the impression that “abundance” is maybe not frequently mentioned, but not that rare of a topic at church.  I agree I haven’t heard “abundant life” that much, but “abundance” feels like a ‘familiar’ topic.

So I did a search on conference talks (wish there was a database for church magazines like this one) and pulled up this.

Now I need to go look at the individual references to see if they connect with wealth, but got an appointment, so that will come later.  The first hit I got on LDS.org where I went before I thought of this was a 1971 talk.  Since the 70s were my teens when my first real impressions of comments at church were likely solidified (since many talks at church have been harder to understand or even care about long enough to remember), that may be why it feels more common to me (70s being the high point for using “abundance” and “abundant” since the early Church).

“Blessed” “abundant” “prosperity” etc - 

My experience is these types of themes are talked about quite a bit in church, especially when studying the Book of Mormon.  And my experience is that this is often all about Physical reward be it good health, opportunity, power, money, physical increase etc. 

[Calm]

1 hour ago, MustardSeed said:

“Blessed” “abundant” “prosperity” etc - 

My experience is these types of themes are talked about quite a bit in church, especially when studying the Book of Mormon.  And my experience is that this is often all about Physical reward be it good health, opportunity, power, money, physical increase etc. 

And they leave it there?  Rather than taking it to the next step of ‘now you are financially stable, reach out and help the Church and help others’?

My impression is the major theme is God gives us abundance to help build his kingdom and to others.

It may be our age difference, my filter to hear those kinds of things—I might just add them on assuming that’s the point—may be due to growing up in a time the Church was financially struggling. I believe the low point was early 60s.  I born late 50s.

Edited March 31, 2025 by Calm

[MustardSeed]

 

I definitely think we should think in terms of prosperity and abundance and reward in terms of peaceful regretless living. 

 

 

[The Nehor]

12 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

I definitely think we should think in terms of prosperity and abundance and reward in terms of peaceful regretless living. 

People say this but then they get annoyed when you start up your harem.

[MustardSeed]

5 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

People say this but then they get annoyed when you start up your harem.

Build your harem but don’t post pics with the words “so blessed” below 

[The Nehor]

2 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

Build your harem but don’t post pics with the words “so blessed” below 

Of course I wouldn’t do that. I’m not a monster.