Exodus 36:4-6

[ZealouslyStriving]

When arguing that the Church hoards too much of it wealth, could go in forever with what it has, and should not ask it's members to donate anymore- an appeal to scripture might be helpful. So in the spirit of goodwill, I'll offer a proof text for y'all to try out in your next debate. Now, don't say I never gave you anything.

 

"4 And all the wise men, that wrought all the work of the sanctuary, came every man from his work which they made;

5 ¶ And they spake unto Moses, saying, The people bring much more than enough for the service of the work, which the Lord commanded to make.

6 And Moses gave commandment, and they caused it to be proclaimed throughout the camp, saying, Let neither man nor woman make any more work for the offering of the sanctuary. So the people were restrained from bringing."

[Pyreaux]

In Exodus 35, the Israelites were called to bring offerings for the construction of the Tabernacle. These offerings were to be voluntary, and God commanded Moses to ask the people for gold, silver, fine linen, and other materials. Additionally, skilled craftsmen were chosen to construct the Tabernacle, and Moses provided detailed instructions on how the sanctuary should be built according to God’s specifications. Wisemen artisans led by Bezaleel and Aholiab were set to work.

Exodus 36:4 describes how the people responded to this call with extraordinary generosity, and how the workers gathered the necessary materials, came together to present the results of their labor. Their work was an essential part of completing the Tabernacle, and their willingness to contribute demonstrated their dedication to fulfilling God’s command. The workers, all of whom were skilled in their respective crafts, willingly left their personal tasks to come together for a common purpose. This unity was vital to the success of the project, sparing no expense as the Tabernacle was to be a place where God could dwell among His people. The work required collaboration, and each individual’s contribution was important to the whole.

Exodus 36:6 emphasizes the obedience of the people in following God’s instructions through the prophet, and the prophet says whether it's enough. Only Moses and the planners of the work knew how much was enough. The people came together to build just one Tabernacle sufficient for their needs, but we, as members of the Church, are called to work together for the advancement of the gospel and building temples for other people across the world. The verse may show a single sanctuary can take what it needs to be built and then not more, not including the tithes. It doesn't explain to me why the people think they can determine when the church has enough to build the temples and if they did, whether the tithes to maintain them is ever enough.

Edited February 26, 2025 by Pyreaux

[ZealouslyStriving]

17 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

In Exodus 35, the Israelites were called to bring offerings for the construction of the Tabernacle. These offerings were to be voluntary, and God commanded Moses to ask the people for gold, silver, fine linen, and other materials. Additionally, skilled craftsmen were chosen to construct the Tabernacle, and Moses provided detailed instructions on how the sanctuary should be built according to God’s specifications. Wisemen artisans led by Bezaleel and Aholiab set to work.

Exodus 36:4 describes how the people responded to this call with extraordinary generosity, and how the workers gathered the necessary materials, came together to present the results of their labor. Their work was an essential part of completing the Tabernacle, and their willingness to contribute demonstrated their dedication to fulfilling God’s command. The workers, all of whom were skilled in their respective crafts, willingly left their personal tasks to come together for a common purpose. This unity was vital to the success of the project, sparing no expense as the Tabernacle was to be a place where God could dwell among His people. The work required collaboration, and each individual’s contribution was important to the whole.

Exodus 36:6 emphasizes the obedience of the people in following God’s instructions through the prophet, and the prophet says whether it's enough. Only Moses and the planners of the work knew how much was enough. The people came together to build just one Tabernacle sufficient for their needs, but we, as members of the Church, are called to work together for the advancement of the gospel and the building temples for other people across the world. The verse may show a single sanctuary can take what it needs to be build and then not more, not including the tithes. It doesn't been explained to me why the unwilling people think they can determine when the church has enough to build the temples and if they did, whether the tithes to maintain them is ever enough.

👍🏻👍🏻 That's why I said that they can try to use it as a proof text. I didn't say I thought it actually made their point. Your points would be an excellent counter if this particular story was used.

[Calm]

The verse fits the discontinuation of requests for the  temple patron fund, PEF, and any fund the Church has said they don’t need more donations for as there is sufficient funds and possibly the budget and any other fund the Church has discontinued without specifying there is no need for them any more.

(budget may have been specified, but I wasn’t paying attention at the time)

Edited February 25, 2025 by Calm

[Okrahomer]

5 hours ago, Calm said:

The verse fits the discontinuation of requests for the  temple patron fund, PEF, and any fund the Church has said they don’t need more donations for as there is sufficient funds and possibly the budget and any other fund the Church has discontinued without specifying there is no need for them any more.

(budget may have been specified, but I wasn’t paying attention at the time)

This made me think of those "everlasting" threads about Church finances.  I think Analytics most recently expressed skepticism that the LDS Church uses Fund-based accounting?  So, if the LDS Church does not use fund-based accounting, why has it been necessary from time-to-time for the Church to inform membership that donations would no longer be accepted into certain funds?

Edited February 25, 2025 by Okrahomer

[Robert F. Smith]

10 hours ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

When arguing that the Church hoards too much of it wealth, could go in forever with what it has, and should not ask it's members to donate anymore- an appeal to scripture might be helpful. So in the spirit of goodwill, I'll offer a proof text for y'all to try out in your next debate. Now, don't say I never gave you anything.

 

"4 And all the wise men, that wrought all the work of the sanctuary, came every man from his work which they made;

5 ¶ And they spake unto Moses, saying, The people bring much more than enough for the service of the work, which the Lord commanded to make.

6 And Moses gave commandment, and they caused it to be proclaimed throughout the camp, saying, Let neither man nor woman make any more work for the offering of the sanctuary. So the people were restrained from bringing."

In the economy of God, it is clear various projects may come up through time.  I can recall a time when the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was dirt poor, and in which individual wards had to gather money from their own congregation in order to build a chapel.  Ward members were also expected to participate in the actual carpentry and painting.  Elder Uchtdorf did that as a young German fighter pilot undergoing training in Texas.  When he had time off, he helped build a local ward house.

[Okrahomer]

26 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Elder Uchtdorf did that as a young German fighter pilot undergoing training in Texas.  When he had time off, he helped build a local ward house.

I recall watching my parents and older siblings perform labor on the meetinghouse in my hometown.  They would “donate” time every week, and then they would turn around and contribute to the Ward building fund.

[Tacenda]

15 minutes ago, Okrahomer said:

I recall watching my parents and older siblings perform labor on the meetinghouse in my hometown.  They would “donate” time every week, and then they would turn around and contribute to the Ward building fund.

My husband and I were asked to donate to the ward building fund as a young married couple and a short time later it was discontinued.

[Calm]

My grandparents always talked about their old chapel with a lot of fondness.  Most members aren’t too emotionally invested in the church buildings these days. I wonder how much of that was being involved in the building process.

There was quite a bit of resistance to tearing down our old chapel rather than just renovating it. My dad, the practical engineer, thought it was a waste of money; me…I really was going to miss the windows.  There were probably others like us. But it seemed a lot of the older people had a lot of pride in that chapel. 
 

I just don’t hear pride in voices on this topic any more (temples yes, the pretty much generic chapels no).

Edited February 26, 2025 by Calm

[Tony uk]

I think in times gone by, in many countries. Churches always seemed to be the back bone of many countries. They became focal points, for worship, and social gatherings. Especially in times before social media in all forms. It is, at least in my own mind, one of the reasons became attached to the particular people of a certain age.