Church purchasing land in Nebraska

[Tacenda]

9 hours ago, sunstoned said:

As far as tithing goes...

"but we expect to see the day when we will not have to ask you for one dollar of donation for any purpose, except that which you volunteer to give of your own accord, because we will have tithes sufficient in the storehouse of the Lord to pay everything that is needful for the advancement of the kingdom of God. I want to live to see that day, if the Lord will spare my life. It does not make any difference, though, so far as that is concerned, whether I live or not. That is the true policy, the true purpose of the Lord in the management of the affairs of His Church."

April 1907 LDS General Conference, Joseph F. Smith -

I'm wondering where this day will come.  Or maybe Prophet JFS was just speaking as a man.

 

Pretty sure it's a big thing to members of the church that believe it's a commandment not a policy. The church could be in the trillions and the members would pay it. 

[Tacenda]

On 11/22/2023 at 1:34 PM, LoudmouthMormon said:

So, can we count on your no vote to the notion that the church should go into rental properties?

Your link isn't the church but is it any different than the church building home rentals? And the church outbidding?

[bluebell]

11 hours ago, sunstoned said:

As far as tithing goes...

"but we expect to see the day when we will not have to ask you for one dollar of donation for any purpose, except that which you volunteer to give of your own accord, because we will have tithes sufficient in the storehouse of the Lord to pay everything that is needful for the advancement of the kingdom of God. I want to live to see that day, if the Lord will spare my life. It does not make any difference, though, so far as that is concerned, whether I live or not. That is the true policy, the true purpose of the Lord in the management of the affairs of His Church."

April 1907 LDS General Conference, Joseph F. Smith -

I'm wondering where this day will come.  Or maybe Prophet JFS was just speaking as a man.

 

It sounds like he is saying that he foresees the day that the membership will be paying enough tithing ("we will have tithes sufficient...") that they won't have to ask for any other donations to run the church.  We seem to have hit that day a long time ago, as there have been "tithes sufficient" to run the church for a few decades, as Cal has pointed out.  

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

Pretty sure it's a big thing to members of the church that believe it's a commandment not a policy. The church could be in the trillions and the members would pay it. 

If a person sincerely believes it is a commandment of God, and if they sincerely want to obey God's commandments, would it be logical for them to stop paying it for any reason?

[Tacenda]

38 minutes ago, bluebell said:

If a person sincerely believes it is a commandment of God, and if they sincerely want to obey God's commandments, would it be logical for them to stop paying it for any reason?

No, that's what I was trying to say.

[Chum]

On 11/26/2023 at 11:36 AM, Tacenda said:

Thumbs down on the church building these in Nebraska ... If that's the plan, I'm guessing about that.

The Church's large land purchases are typically about farming. Usually cattle farming. I did find Farmland Reserve owns huge orange groves in FL but I think that'll be ranch land too.

Cattle farming brings different concerns tho.

On 11/26/2023 at 11:36 AM, Tacenda said:

 Thumbs down on the church ... taking land from farmers who would like to compete with the church in buying the land. If that's the plan, I'm guessing about that. But the church wields the wealth and cuts out the entire population that can't afford or even come close to being able to compete, even the very wealthy. That's what kind of behemoth the church is . IMO, the church is a monster as far as this goes. I bet God isn't happy at all.

Nehor mentioned buying corporate-owned land. In 20yrs of these stories, I've only ever read about corporate land-holders as who the Church is buying from. It's not a complete picture but it may well reflect the complete picture.

And from what I've seen, the sellers are typically massive family-named entities. In other words, it's the same 800lb gorillas that convert actual family farms into family-sounding industrial food producers.

None of this means I think Church's actions shouldn't be scrutinized. They should - but within context.

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, Chum said:

The Church's large land purchases are typically about farming. Usually cattle farming. I did find Farmland Reserve owns huge orange groves in FL but I think that'll be ranch land too.

Cattle farming brings different concerns tho.

Nehor mentioned buying corporate-owned land. In 20yrs of these stories, I've only ever read about corporate land-holders as who the Church is buying from. It's not a complete picture but it may well reflect the complete picture.

And from what I've seen, the sellers are typically massive family-named entities. In other words, it's the same 800lb gorillas that convert actual family farms into family-sounding industrial food producers.

None of this means I think Church's actions shouldn't be scrutinized. They should - but within context.

I guess in my mind it was the church building these rental homes' communities. But people have set me straight on this notion and I guess if the church wants to provide a best case scenario on providing food for the nation or other countries that's great. The land will be in good hands, as long as they give the locals a fair opportunity to own land and farm. 

Also, I hope it's not just cattle operations. I feel that is a problem for the environment according to some articles about gas given off from the cattle. Maybe funny sounding but maybe serious, not sure? 

eta, found this..

https://sentientmedia.org/cattle-ranching/#:~:text=Deforestation caused by cattle farming,to water and air pollution.

Edited December 2, 2023 by Tacenda

[CA Steve]

3 hours ago, bluebell said:

If a person sincerely believes it is a commandment of God, and if they sincerely want to obey God's commandments, would it be logical for them to stop paying it for any reason?

Are there ANY commandments or instructions you felt were from the Lord you would not obey?

 

Edited December 2, 2023 by CA Steve

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, CA Steve said:

Are there ANY commandments or instructions you felt were from the Lord you would not obey?

 

That seems a little personal CA

[CA Steve]

7 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

That seems a little personal CA

Well, her question seemed designed to justify obedience based on faith, so I suppose it is. Two edge sword and all that.

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, CA Steve said:

Are there ANY commandments or instructions you felt were from the Lord you would not obey?

 

Good question. 

First, because I'm very much not perfect, there are plenty of commandments from God, that I believe are from Him, that I don't obey.  Repentance and all that.  But, I'd say that if I sincerely believed a commandment was from God, and if I sincerely am trying to follow Christ, then the answer is ultimately no in theory, even if it's lacking in practice (which isn't a two-edged sword at all).

However, depending on the commandment, the level of "believe it's from God" that I would require would vary.  For some, a peaceful feeling is enough.  For others (of the type I'm guessing you are trying to hold me to) it might require a personal vision or something similar.

 

[bluebell]

45 minutes ago, CA Steve said:

Well, her question seemed designed to justify obedience based on faith, so I suppose it is. Two edge sword and all that.

Yes, but not blind faith.