Life Force

[Bassil]

3 hours ago, Tacenda said:

President Gordon B. Hinckley: "Let me say that we appreciate the truth in all churches and the good which they do. We say to the people, in effect, you bring with you all the good that you have, and then let us see if we can add to it. That is the spirit of this work. That is the essence of our missionary service."

I like people who believe in cooperation.

[Bassil]

45 minutes ago, manol said:

This is an interesting concept.  Can you describe this “thoughts field” in more detail?

Theta or the thoughts field is where God thought the whole existence. The Whole existence is God thought into Theta. God itself may be a thought in Theta.

1. Our thoughts like Theta have no mass, no wavelength.

2. Thoughts do not exist in the brain unless they get retrieved into the brain then they are modeled into it. In theory with the right equipment modeled thoughts can be detected and visualized. Out of the brain thoughts can't be detected since they don't have mass or wavelength.

3. Thoughts created by a spirit registered to the body that the spirit is connected to. The spirit can access those thoughts as long as it is connected to the body. The spirit stopped accessing those thoughts if it get disconnected from the body, temporary like under anesthesia or in a comma or permanent like in death. Hence, thoughts are not stored in the spirit. Otherwise, we would see those thoughts while under anesthesia.

4. The place that is not the brain or the spirit can be called Theta, the thoughts field.

[mfbukowski]

On 8/20/2023 at 5:33 PM, Bassil said:

When I get the opportunity, I'll deliver proof that the whole existence must be imagined.

Could sound close to my belief that all of reality can only be known by our perceptions of it.

The mind essentially creates reality "as we know it", and so the only reality we CAN know is what is in our minds.

Obviously there ARE things "in the world", but all we see and feel of those things is our EXPERIENCE of them.

Color is a good example. We make colors as our brain spins light frequencies into red and blue etc

We know what chairs are by sitting.

[mfbukowski]

17 hours ago, Bassil said:

Theta or the thoughts field is where God thought the whole existence. The Whole existence is God thought into Theta. God itself may be a thought in Theta.

1. Our thoughts like Theta have no mass, no wavelength.

2. Thoughts do not exist in the brain unless they get retrieved into the brain then they are modeled into it. In theory with the right equipment modeled thoughts can be detected and visualized. Out of the brain thoughts can't be detected since they don't have mass or wavelength.

3. Thoughts created by a spirit registered to the body that the spirit is connected to. The spirit can access those thoughts as long as it is connected to the body. The spirit stopped accessing those thoughts if it get disconnected from the body, temporary like under anesthesia or in a comma or permanent like in death. Hence, thoughts are not stored in the spirit. Otherwise, we would see those thoughts while under anesthesia.

4. The place that is not the brain or the spirit can be called Theta, the thoughts field.

This seems to be another way of saying what I said just now !

I just do not postulate a "field"

Edited August 22, 2023 by mfbukowski

[Bassil]

17 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

Could sound close to my belief that all of reality can only be known by our perceptions of it.

The whole existence was imagined by God; it is its thought. For us existence is 100% real. Because we are not the ones who imagined the existence. Though it is God thought, existence is undoubtedly real for us. 🙂

[Bassil]

20 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

This seems to be another way of saying what I said just now !

Glad that we are sharing the same thoughts.

[pogi]

19 hours ago, Bassil said:

Theta or the thoughts field is where God thought the whole existence. The Whole existence is God thought into Theta. God itself may be a thought in Theta.

1. Our thoughts like Theta have no mass, no wavelength.

2. Thoughts do not exist in the brain unless they get retrieved into the brain then they are modeled into it. In theory with the right equipment modeled thoughts can be detected and visualized. Out of the brain thoughts can't be detected since they don't have mass or wavelength.

3. Thoughts created by a spirit registered to the body that the spirit is connected to. The spirit can access those thoughts as long as it is connected to the body. The spirit stopped accessing those thoughts if it get disconnected from the body, temporary like under anesthesia or in a comma or permanent like in death. Hence, thoughts are not stored in the spirit. Otherwise, we would see those thoughts while under anesthesia.

4. The place that is not the brain or the spirit can be called Theta, the thoughts field.

Thanks for bringing some interesting thoughts  to this forum.

A few questions to dig a little deeper into your postulations - 

1) If God is a thought in theta, what is the genesis of Theta?  Did God create that too? 

2) You mention in point 3 that our spirits create thoughts.  So, if God is a thought, what spirit created God before the thought of God existed? 

3) In point 3 you mention thoughts "registered" to the body.  What does that mean?  Are you suggesting that the body is Theta?  If the spirit generates thoughts, as you suggest, why can't the spirit access thoughts registered to the body if the spirit was the source of those thoughts to begin with?  Does the spirit have no memory to build new thoughts upon?

3) How does your theory hold up to the idea that we can easily see that surgical manipulation or damage to the brain affects thoughts, personality, etc?  

Not trying to argue, just trying to understand your ideas.  They are interesting. 

 

Edited August 22, 2023 by pogi

[Bassil]

21 minutes ago, pogi said:

1) If God is a thought in theta, what is the genesis of Theta?  Did God create that too?

Theta is as far as I can go. I have no idea what is beyond Theta. We can reach some beginning but not the beginning. No one can know about the absolute beginning.

[Bassil]

29 minutes ago, pogi said:

2) You mention in point 3 that our spirits create thoughts.  So, if God is a thought, what spirit created God before the thought of God existed? 

🙂 God is not the invention of our imagination if that is what you meant. We are God thought, not the other way around.

[Bassil]

32 minutes ago, pogi said:

In point 3 you mention thoughts "registered" to the body.  What does that mean?

The spirit can have many bodies. Once a body dies, the spirit gets disconnected from that body and gets connected to a new one. It starts to create new thoughts with the new body. The spirit only can access the thoughts it creates while attached to a body. Bodies are not Theta. Bodies have mass, Theta does not.

[Bassil]

43 minutes ago, pogi said:

why can't the spirit access thoughts registered to the body if the spirit was the source of those thoughts to begin with?

It's by observation. Once a spirit gets disconnected from a body, it can't reach those thoughts.

[Bassil]

47 minutes ago, pogi said:

Does the spirit have no memory to build new thoughts upon?

No. Thoughts don't created or stored into the spirits.

[Bassil]

49 minutes ago, pogi said:

3) How does your theory hold up to the idea that we can easily see that surgical manipulation or damage to the brain affects thoughts, personality, etc?

The brain is the tool that models our thoughts into the physical world.

[mfbukowski]

2 hours ago, Bassil said:

The whole existence was imagined by God; it is its thought. For us existence is 100% real. Because we are not the ones who imagined the existence. Though it is God thought, existence is undoubtedly real for us. 🙂

To translate this into Bukowski, 😉 I would say that God provided the design for the worlds, spiritually first and then made them exist in "less refined matter" since spirit is "refined matter" and rocks and mud and bodies are plain old  "matter" AS WE KNOW IT.

So yes, that is a very LDS idea, not that many see it or would say it that way

[mfbukowski]

12 minutes ago, Bassil said:

The spirit can have many bodies. Once a body dies, the spirit gets disconnected from that body and gets connected to a new one. It starts to create new thoughts with the new body. The spirit only can access the thoughts it creates while attached to a body. Bodies are not Theta. Bodies have mass, Theta does not.

I think if you used the word "Spirit" rather than "Theta" this would be much more LDS-understandable.

[Calm]

Is God embodied?  Or is he just a mind in the theta field.

[manol]

47 minutes ago, Calm said:

Is God embodied?  Or is he just a mind in the theta field.

Just my $.02:

Your question is sort of like attempting to reconcile Joseph Smith's teaching that “God has a body of flesh and bone” with Jesus' teaching that “God is a spirit”.  Or like attempting to reconcile the LDS concept that God is in a specific locality, with God's omnipresence as described in the 88^th Section of the Doctrine and Covenants, verses 7-13 and 41:

“He is in the sun, and the light of the sun, and the power thereof by which it was made.

“As also he is in the moon, and is the light of the moon, and the power thereof by which it was made;

“As also the light of the stars, and the power thereof by which they were made;

“And the earth also, and the power thereof, even the earth upon which you stand.

“And the light which shineth, which giveth you light, is through him who enlighteneth your eyes, which is the same light that quickeneth your understandings;

“Which light proceedeth forth from the presence of God to fill the immensity of space—

“The light which is in all things, which giveth life to all things, which is the law by which all things are governed, even the power of God who sitteth upon his throne, who is in the bosom of eternity, who is in the midst of all things.

“He comprehendeth all things, and all things are before him, and all things are round about him; and he is above all things, and in all things, and is through all things, and is round about all things; and all things are by him, and of him, even God, forever and ever.”  (emphasis manol's)

My theory is that God is a pan-dimensional being (or super-being), existing in all dimensions in harmony with the reality operative in that dimension.  And I think the Theta field described by @Bassil is one of these dimensions, presumably one where space and time as we understand them do not exist. 

And I think the same can be said of us (within the limitations of our current state of development), our awareness of such being deliberately and temporarily constrained by the Veil.  And earth-life being sort of like going to the gym, in that we're here to develop muscles we normally would not be able to work on, at least not nearly as intensely.

Edited August 22, 2023 by manol

[Calm]

6 minutes ago, manol said:

My theory is that God is a pan-dimensional being, existing in all dimensions in harmony with the reality operative in that dimension.

And I think the same can be said of us (within the limitations of our current state of development), our awareness of such being deliberately and temporarily constrained by the Veil. 

That is a possibility in my reasoning, I have used “pan-dimensional” myself a few times, but never without a smile due to Slartibartfast’s reference:  

Quote

“These creatures you call mice you see are not quite as they appear, they are merely the protrusions into our dimension of vast, hyper-intelligent pan-dimensional beings.”

https://hitchhikers.fandom.com/wiki/Mice

Edited August 22, 2023 by Calm

[manol]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

“These creatures you call mice you see are not quite as they appear, they are merely the protrusions into our dimension of vast, hyper-intelligent pan-dimensional beings.”

https://hitchhikers.fandom.com/wiki/Mice

Oh wow!  That is incredibly profound! 

Imo we and all others are likewise merely protrusions into our dimension of a vast, hyper-intelligent, pan-dimensional being.  You have to read in between the lines to see this, but it's sprinkled here and there:

The First Great Commandment (to love God completely) and the Second Great commandment (to love our neighbor as ourself) seem, at first glance, to be about VERY different things.  But note the wording Jesus uses to link them together:

"And the second is like unto the first."    Hmmmm. 

Then there's the parable of the King who reveals that "inasmuch as ye have done it unto the least of these my brothers, ye have done it unto me."  In other words, even the least among us is a protrusion into our dimension of a vast, hyper-intelligent, pan-dimensional being.

And recall that in the Endowment Ceremony you make promises using three different names, or using three different identities of yours, at three different times.  And at least one of those names, one of those identities, is that of a protrusion into our dimension of a vast, hyper-intelligent, pan-dimensional Being. 

Not to mention the identity you affirm each time you partake of the Sacrament. 

Edited August 22, 2023 by manol

[Bassil]

2 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

So yes, that is a very LDS idea, not that many see it or would say it that way

I wanted to separate my idea from the ideas of those who say that existence is an illusion. Existence is real, though it's God thought.

[Bassil]

2 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

I think if you used the word "Spirit" rather than "Theta" this would be much more LDS-understandable.

I can't mix between the two. Theta is the thoughts field, where thoughts are created into. The spirit is a thought created by God into Theta.

[Bassil]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

Is God embodied?  Or is he just a mind in the theta field.

I don't know. But he can embody himself for us if he wants.  

[Bassil]

2 hours ago, manol said:

presumably one where space and time as we understand them do not exist.

True

[pogi]

4 hours ago, Bassil said:

Theta is as far as I can go. I have no idea what is beyond Theta. We can reach some beginning but not the beginning. No one can know about the absolute beginning.

Do you believe in an absolute beginning?  If so, then is it fair to say that you don't believe that God is eternal?  In fact, you seem to posit that Theta has origins earlier than God, since God exists as a thought in theta.  Is that an accurate representation of your position? 

[Calm]

19 minutes ago, Bassil said:

I can't mix between the two. Theta is the thoughts field, where thoughts are created into. The spirit is a thought created by God into Theta.

While it seems to me the differences matter, there are lots of echoes of your ideas in LDS belief….or echoes of LDE beliefs in your ideas depending on your POV.

We define intelligence as “light and truth”***….whatever those actually are.  Intelligence could be defined as that which gives us…and God…the ability to create thought.  Intelligence has always existed and cannot be created.  This “intelligence” is not the same thing as that which is measured by IQ tests, how smart we are, it is the fundamental building block of creation as well as the name of the beings made out of it and we cannot describe what this truly is, so we use words that convey a sense of this unknown reality (Mark, perhaps, might say how can I call it reality if I do not know it, faith I guess is my answer).  I believe we use “intelligence” to describe this first indescribable form of being in a way somewhat similar to why John used “the Word” or rather logos, also declared to be light and truth, to describe the indescribable Christ, but world views were very different then (the Word that God spoke to create the universe in Genesis as well as the Greek force of reason and order) so I may be very wrong.

Current LDS thought usually speaks of us as eternal beings, coexisting with God, but not as advanced in intelligence as he is****.In fact we call our first form of existent intelligence.  These intelligences were then clothed with spirit by God somehow, making us his spirit children.  God is therefore the source of our spirits.

***https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/doctrine-and-covenants-instructors-guide-religion-324-325/the-glory-of-god-is-intelligence-lesson-37-section-93?lang=eng

****

Quote

Now, if there be two things, one above the other, and the moon be above the earth, then it may be that a planet or a star may exist above it; and there is nothing that the Lord thy God shall take in his heart to do but what he will do it.

18 Howbeit that he made the greater star; as, also, if there be two spirits, and one shall be more intelligent than the other, yet these two spirits, notwithstanding one is more intelligent than the other, have no beginning; they existed before, they shall have no end, they shall exist after, for they are gnolaum, or eternal.

19 And the Lord said unto me: These two facts do exist, that there are two spirits, one being more intelligent than the other; there shall be another more intelligent than they; I am the Lord thy God, I am more intelligent than they all.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/pgp/abr/3?lang=eng&id=18-19#p18