Lesson 18 - Preparing for the Final Day of Judgment

[marineland]

I'm into lesson 18 of the manual (Religion 275).  

Page 84

Introduction
Mortal life is the time for us to prepare to meet God.

Suggestions for Teaching
Alma 34:32–34; 40:6–7, 11–14
After death, the righteous go to paradise and the wicked go to spirit prison

What important doctrines about the purpose of life on earth did Amulek teach?
(Students should identify several doctrines in this passage, including the
following: This life is the time for us to prepare to meet God.)

Since even the evil spirits that never entered mortality will meet God on Judgment Day,
does this particular reference to mortal life mean proxied ordinances for the dead cannot
prepare them to meet God in His kingdom; where its residents will have eternal life?

 

Page 85

• What is the difference between the state of the righteous and the state of the
wicked after death? (Although they may use different words, students should
identify the following doctrine: Between death and resurrection, the spirits
of the righteous dwell in paradise and the spirits of the wicked dwell in
spirit prison.)

Did the thief on the cross go to paradise with Jesus because his faith in Christ
was counted for righteousness?

[CV75]

7 minutes ago, marineland said:

I'm into lesson 18 of the manual (Religion 275).  

Page 84

Introduction
Mortal life is the time for us to prepare to meet God.

Suggestions for Teaching
Alma 34:32–34; 40:6–7, 11–14
After death, the righteous go to paradise and the wicked go to spirit prison

What important doctrines about the purpose of life on earth did Amulek teach?
(Students should identify several doctrines in this passage, including the
following: This life is the time for us to prepare to meet God.)

Since even the evil spirits that never entered mortality will meet God on Judgment Day,
does this particular reference to mortal life mean proxied ordinances for the dead cannot
prepare them to meet God in His kingdom; where its residents will have eternal life?

 

Page 85

• What is the difference between the state of the righteous and the state of the
wicked after death? (Although they may use different words, students should
identify the following doctrine: Between death and resurrection, the spirits
of the righteous dwell in paradise and the spirits of the wicked dwell in
spirit prison.)

Did the thief on the cross go to paradise with Jesus because his faith in Christ
was counted for righteousness?

My understanding:

Q1: anyone who does not qualify for the second estate cannot receive proxy ordinances and, lacking a body and mortal experience, cannot be resurrected and participate in "the" Judgement Day to follow.

Q2: While the Lord said "today," we do not know whether the thief passed through the spirit prison, however briefly, first. But it is reasonable to hope that his faith was counted as righteousness, with additional, continued opportinity to garner greater faith and righteousness in paradise later that day. "Today" as it is translated may also have been used loosely.

[ksfisher]

24 minutes ago, marineland said:

Did the thief on the cross go to paradise with Jesus because his faith in Christ
was counted for righteousness?

I don't think there's enough in the scriptures to tell us why Christ said what he said.  We don't know anything about the thief, what kind of person he was, why he ended up where he did, or what kind of faith he had.  Anything beyond Christ's statement is guesswork.

[Pyreaux]

2 hours ago, marineland said:

I'm into lesson 18 of the manual (Religion 275).  

Page 84

Introduction
Mortal life is the time for us to prepare to meet God.

Suggestions for Teaching
Alma 34:32–34; 40:6–7, 11–14
After death, the righteous go to paradise and the wicked go to spirit prison

What important doctrines about the purpose of life on earth did Amulek teach?
(Students should identify several doctrines in this passage, including the
following: This life is the time for us to prepare to meet God.)

Since even the evil spirits that never entered mortality will meet God on Judgment Day,
does this particular reference to mortal life mean proxied ordinances for the dead cannot
prepare them to meet God in His kingdom; where its residents will have eternal life?

 

Page 85

• What is the difference between the state of the righteous and the state of the
wicked after death? (Although they may use different words, students should
identify the following doctrine: Between death and resurrection, the spirits
of the righteous dwell in paradise and the spirits of the wicked dwell in
spirit prison.)

Did the thief on the cross go to paradise with Jesus because his faith in Christ
was counted for righteousness?

I think conventional LDS thought is wicked spirits have knowingly rejected Jesus and so cut themselves off from the Atonement, with no prospects for redemption. There is supposedly nothing better they could be doing than tempting us. A similar condition for a few mortals we call "Sons of Perdition"', knowingly rejecting Jesus in life, after the Holy Ghost had told them the truth, aka blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, the unpardonable sin. Proxy work done for them will not do any good, but we don't know for sure who is one, except Cain. I say conventional LDS thought as we have people with merciful minds who may express extra doctrinal hope for them.

Conventional LDS thought is Christ saw into the thief's heart and saw he was ready for the gospel, but we think he did not know it, but still had to ideally be preached the gospel. So, Christ spent three days redeeming the spirits in prison, organized a spirit missionary effort, and the thief was preached to, and he accepted that same day. Not as others interpret as a death bed repentance prooftext. There is more involved in changing your heart than a confession of faith before you die. You'll still be the same person. It's better to change your heart now than to try to change later. Therefore, ideally speaking, you need to prepare now, if you are able, to meet God. While it's not yet too late for those who were unable to accept the gospel while they yet still lived, who've never heard the only name by which they can be saved.

Edited July 13, 2023 by Pyreaux

[The Nehor]

I believe he has to receive all the ordinances vicariously. Since he lived under the Law of Moses he might need a circumcision for the dead done for him. Any volunteers?

[Pyreaux]

3 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I believe he has to receive all the ordinances vicariously. Since he lived under the Law of Moses he might need a circumcision for the dead done for him. Any volunteers?

That's assuming he wasn't already circumcised before starting a life of crime. Christ at this time didn't seem to preach to non-Israelites.

Edited July 14, 2023 by Pyreaux

[Navidad]

On 7/13/2023 at 1:10 PM, marineland said:

Did the thief on the cross go to paradise with Jesus because his faith in Christ
was counted for righteousness?

Yes.

[marineland]

On 7/13/2023 at 7:10 PM, The Nehor said:

I believe he has to receive all the ordinances vicariously. Since he lived under the Law of Moses he might need a circumcision for the dead done for him.

What proxied ordinances, for the non-Israelites who lived under the Law of Moses, are not
required?