Abortion Fallout

[The Nehor]

So how is the whole abortion thing going. I remember being told that I was being fatalistic when I said the laws would lead to all kinds of horrific situations.

Oh wow…….ummmmm…….maybe they didn’t think these laws through. Maybe they should have talked to some doctors or something so the legislation wouldn’t be absolute garbage. I also love the part where he talks about the law: “These are effecting people”. I mean, is he a moron? Where does he think the laws they are passing go?

Here is one from my state:

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/08/03/texas-abortion-law-pregnancy/

Risking severe illness or death to carry a fetus with about a 0% chance of survival because no one wants to get sued. The people who warned us all about medical death panels are bringing in the death panels except the panels have no idea what the rules are.

 

Attempts to keep abortion pills out of the hands of consumers in some states has the potential to create a new war on drugs. Probably one with even less chance of succeeding.

https://www.healthaffairs.org/do/10.1377/forefront.20220626.851425/

The first war on drugs is why we militarized police. This next one will probably up the ubiquity of the surveillance state.

 

The predicted outcomes from the “alarmists” are all happening. It is almost as if it wasn’t extreme at all. These are perfectly predictable outcomes. There was time. Bills that replaced out of date pre-Roe legislation could have been drafted. Instead the legislation that was passed was badly thought out and so vague that they did not define their terms. On top of that legislators were too busy racing to the bottom to make their laws as restrictive as they thought they could get away with and leaving the exceptions so badly spelled out hospital lawyers have no idea what to do. Doctors are afraid of prison terms if they save the life of the mother even if there is no hope for the fetus.

 

Everything is stupid. Everyone involved is stupid.

Sympathizing with the Douglas Adams quote:

“Many were increasingly of the opinion that they'd all made a big mistake in coming down from the trees in the first place. And some said that even the trees had been a bad move, and that no one should ever have left the oceans.”

[bluebell]

11 hours ago, The Nehor said:

So how is the whole abortion thing going. I remember being told that I was being fatalistic when I said the laws would lead to all kinds of horrific situations.

Oh wow…….ummmmm…….maybe they didn’t think these laws through. Maybe they should have talked to some doctors or something so the legislation wouldn’t be absolute garbage. I also love the part where he talks about the law: “These are effecting people”. I mean, is he a moron? Where does he think the laws they are passing go?

Here is one from my state:

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/08/03/texas-abortion-law-pregnancy/

Risking severe illness or death to carry a fetus with about a 0% chance of survival because no one wants to get sued. The people who warned us all about medical death panels are bringing in the death panels except the panels have no idea what the rules are.

 

Attempts to keep abortion pills out of the hands of consumers in some states has the potential to create a new war on drugs. Probably one with even less chance of succeeding.

https://www.healthaffairs.org/do/10.1377/forefront.20220626.851425/

The first war on drugs is why we militarized police. This next one will probably up the ubiquity of the surveillance state.

 

The predicted outcomes from the “alarmists” are all happening. It is almost as if it wasn’t extreme at all. These are perfectly predictable outcomes. There was time. Bills that replaced out of date pre-Roe legislation could have been drafted. Instead the legislation that was passed was badly thought out and so vague that they did not define their terms. On top of that legislators were too busy racing to the bottom to make their laws as restrictive as they thought they could get away with and leaving the exceptions so badly spelled out hospital lawyers have no idea what to do. Doctors are afraid of prison terms if they save the life of the mother even if there is no hope for the fetus.

 

Everything is stupid. Everyone involved is stupid.

Sympathizing with the Douglas Adams quote:

“Many were increasingly of the opinion that they'd all made a big mistake in coming down from the trees in the first place. And some said that even the trees had been a bad move, and that no one should ever have left the oceans.”

There is no law, policy, or cultural issue that is not co-optable by idiots.  And there are lots of idiots out there, especially in the government.

[3DOP]

16 hours ago, The Nehor said:

So how is the whole abortion thing going. I remember being told that I was being fatalistic when I said the laws would lead to all kinds of horrific situations.

Oh wow…….ummmmm…….maybe they didn’t think these laws through. Maybe they should have talked to some doctors or something so the legislation wouldn’t be absolute garbage. I also love the part where he talks about the law: “These are effecting people”. I mean, is he a moron? Where does he think the laws they are passing go?

Here is one from my state:

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/08/03/texas-abortion-law-pregnancy/

Risking severe illness or death to carry a fetus with about a 0% chance of survival because no one wants to get sued. The people who warned us all about medical death panels are bringing in the death panels except the panels have no idea what the rules are.

 

Attempts to keep abortion pills out of the hands of consumers in some states has the potential to create a new war on drugs. Probably one with even less chance of succeeding.

https://www.healthaffairs.org/do/10.1377/forefront.20220626.851425/

The first war on drugs is why we militarized police. This next one will probably up the ubiquity of the surveillance state.

 

The predicted outcomes from the “alarmists” are all happening. It is almost as if it wasn’t extreme at all. These are perfectly predictable outcomes. There was time. Bills that replaced out of date pre-Roe legislation could have been drafted. Instead the legislation that was passed was badly thought out and so vague that they did not define their terms. On top of that legislators were too busy racing to the bottom to make their laws as restrictive as they thought they could get away with and leaving the exceptions so badly spelled out hospital lawyers have no idea what to do. Doctors are afraid of prison terms if they save the life of the mother even if there is no hope for the fetus.

 

Everything is stupid. Everyone involved is stupid.

Sympathizing with the Douglas Adams quote:

“Many were increasingly of the opinion that they'd all made a big mistake in coming down from the trees in the first place. And some said that even the trees had been a bad move, and that no one should ever have left the oceans.”

Hi The Nehor. All utilitarian killing of the innocent on purpose is bad, even if there are only a few seconds to live. Viable fetus, inviable fetus? Nobody is living very long. All humans are dying whether in or out (of the womb). Everybody has 0% chance of survival.

[3DOP]

4 hours ago, bluebell said:

There is no law, policy, or cultural issue that is not co-optable by idiots.  And there are lots of idiots out there, especially in the government.

But how do they get into government? Is idiocy a helpful quality to get in to government? I think idiocy is evenly distributed. THAT is why it is in the government. But not especially in government.

[3DOP]

1 minute ago, 3DOP said:

But how do they get into government? Is idiocy a helpful quality to get in to government? I think idiocy is evenly distributed. THAT is why it is in the government. But not especially in government.

Good night. What am I saying? I think the government is full of devious smart people. There are more idiots out of government than in. Idiocy is unevenly distributed among those out of government.

[The Nehor]

5 hours ago, bluebell said:

There is no law, policy, or cultural issue that is not co-optable by idiots.  And there are lots of idiots out there, especially in the government.

The idiots are the ones who wrote the legislation. I am not convinced it was just idiocy. I think there is a fair amount of malice and desire for control.

18 minutes ago, 3DOP said:

Hi The Nehor. All utilitarian killing of the innocent on purpose is bad, even if there are only a few seconds to live. Viable fetus, inviable fetus? Nobody is living very long. All humans are dying whether in or out (of the womb). Everybody has 0% chance of survival.

It is not utilitarian. We are literally talking about cases where the mother has an appreciable chance of dying. Now anything the mother or a doctor chooses to do is under a legal microscope and often there are no clear guidelines. Even if the doctor or patient is exonerated the legal system can put them through hell. Potentially for years. There is a reason the warnings were explicit about this criminalizing pregnancy. This isn’t new with abortion but it is expanding.

[bluebell]

20 minutes ago, 3DOP said:

But how do they get into government? Is idiocy a helpful quality to get in to government? I think idiocy is evenly distributed. THAT is why it is in the government. But not especially in government.

I think that there is a unique group of individuals that want to be in politics, and then a unique subset of idiots in that group that sincerely believe they are the answer to all that ails us. 

And they are just charismatic enough for other idiots to vote them into office and give them the power they are seeking.

 

[bluebell]

9 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

The idiots are the ones who wrote the legislation. I am not convinced it was just idiocy. I think there is a fair amount of malice and desire for control.

No doubt.  Most politicians run because they want control and money.  That seems to be true no matter the party.  Big egos everywhere.

[3DOP]

15 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

The idiots are the ones who wrote the legislation. I am not convinced it was just idiocy. I think there is a fair amount of malice and desire for control.

It is not utilitarian. We are literally talking about cases where the mother has an appreciable chance of dying. Now anything the mother or a doctor chooses to do is under a legal microscope and often there are no clear guidelines. Even if the doctor or patient is exonerated the legal system can put them through hell. Potentially for years. There is a reason the warnings were explicit about this criminalizing pregnancy. This isn’t new with abortion but it is expanding.

Those who murder go through hell for years? I thought it was eternity. Anyway, I would advocate a good mother's good death to maybe save a life that is her own (baby), or even not her own (in some fashion, like she were forced, but why kill the innocent child?) before even a merely temporary hell. Everybody goes through temporary hell, and everybody is dead...and it comes fast and hard. Live well and die well.

Edited August 27, 2022 by 3DOP

[blackstrap]

" We have learned through sad experience ... " 

[The Nehor]

40 minutes ago, 3DOP said:

Those who murder go through hell for years? I thought it was eternity. Anyway, I would advocate a good mother's good death to maybe save a life that is her own (baby), or even not her own (in some fashion, like she were forced, but why kill the innocent child?) before even a merely temporary hell. Everybody goes through temporary hell, and everybody is dead...and it comes fast and hard. Live well and die well.

Even if you allow that killing a fetus is murder (I do not) putting in trolley problem terms still makes your views downright weird. Someone is sacrificing their future, their health, and their own life for a life that is going to be born in excruciating pain and be dead within hours assuming it lives to be born.

[jkwilliams]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

Even if you allow that killing a fetus is murder (I do not) putting in trolley problem terms still makes your views downright weird. Someone is sacrificing their future, their health, and their own life for a life that is going to be born in excruciating pain and be dead within hours assuming it lives to be born.

Not to mention that our laws are not designed to keep people out of hell. 

[The Nehor]

15 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

Not to mention that our laws are not designed to keep people out of hell. 

There are times I think our laws are trying to prepare us to live in hell by easing us into it.