Ethnic Intermarriage In Polygamy

[JLHPROF]

I was skimming the polygamy essay on my phone and a phrase I'd ignored previously popped out at me.  "Ethnic intermarriages were increased, which helped to unite a diverse immigrant population".

This seems like an odd statement.  Is it referring to Swedish marrying English marrying Norwegian?  I don't recall a lot of racial diversity during the polygamy years.

With the exception of the uncanonized revelation on the Lamanites I know of no other indication that ethnically uniting a diverse population was a goal of plural marriage.  The economic benefits were well established but ethnic ones?

Am I missing something that led to this statement being made?

[halconero]

It's an interesting point and intuitively correct when you think about the ethnic diversity of the Salt Lake area during the presidencies of Young, Taylor, and Woodruff. For what it's worth, a lot of scholars differentiate ethnicity, which is seen as more cultural or national in flavour, from race, which is (typically, but not always) usually applied to phenotypical characteristics (skin colour, epicanthal fold, etc.).

The practice of the US in the antebellum period and the immediate post-Civil War period was for large ethnic migrations to cluster in specific States or Territories and most homogenous communities. From what I understand this was the case in Utah, at least not to the same extent as elsewhere in the United States. At the height of immigration to Utah, the foreign-born population was around 35%, or x2.5 higher than the current national average of foreign-born residents. Intermarriage would have provided one way to link communities from disparate linguistic, political, and pre-conversion religious traditions.

Anecdotally, there is an interesting article by the Atlantic from 1864 entitled, "Among the Mormons." One of the aspects of plural marriage that it touches on is its ability to link new diaspora communities to Church leadership:

Quote

One day in the Opera House at Salt Lake, when the carpenters were laying the floor for the Fourth of July Eve Ball, Heber and I got talking of the potpourri of nationalities assembled in Utah. Heber waxed unctuously benevolent, and expressed his affection for each succeeding race as fast as mentioned.

“I love the Danes dearly! I’ve got a Danish wife.” Then turning to a rough-looking carpenter, hammering near him, — “You know Christiny, — eh, Brother Spudge?”

“Oh, yes! know her very well!”

A moment after, — “The Irish are a dear people. My Irish wife is among the best I’ve got.”

Again, — “I love the Germans! Got a Dutch wife, too! Know Katrine, Brother Spudge? Remember she couldn’t scarcely talk a word o’ English when she come, — eh, Brother Spudge?”

Take the above with some salt - the author is mildly antagonist to the Church (but is able to give some begrudging admiration at parts). It does likely reflect, however, the ethnic diversity of the Salt Lake valley at the time, and the practice of intermarriage between cultural groups. Also noteworthy is that the author of the article themselves identifies race with nationality - while scholars currently distinguish race from ethnicity as I outlined above, the lines were not so clear at the time, and it was not atypical for the educated elite to lump nationality and race together, even if there was little genetic or phenotypical distinction (see the Irish).

Edited February 7, 2022 by halconero

[JLHPROF]

23 minutes ago, halconero said:

Anecdotally, there is an interesting article by the Atlantic from 1864 entitled, "Among the Mormons." One of the aspects of plural marriage that it touches on is its ability to link new diaspora communities to Church leadership:

Quote

One day in the Opera House at Salt Lake, when the carpenters were laying the floor for the Fourth of July Eve Ball, Heber and I got talking of the potpourri of nationalities assembled in Utah. Heber waxed unctuously benevolent, and expressed his affection for each succeeding race as fast as mentioned.

“I love the Danes dearly! I’ve got a Danish wife.” Then turning to a rough-looking carpenter, hammering near him, — “You know Christiny, — eh, Brother Spudge?”

“Oh, yes! know her very well!”

A moment after, — “The Irish are a dear people. My Irish wife is among the best I’ve got.”

Again, — “I love the Germans! Got a Dutch wife, too! Know Katrine, Brother Spudge? Remember she couldn’t scarcely talk a word o’ English when she come, — eh, Brother Spudge?”

 

Love that story, but I think it's mostly fiction.
I see no record of any wives born in Germany, Ireland, Denmark, or the Netherlands.  His wife Christine was born in New Jersey, not Denmark.

He did have two Norweigan and one Scottish though.

https://familypedia.fandom.com/wiki/Heber_Chase_Kimball_(1801-1868)

[The Nehor]

Europeans (especially the racist ones) are still baffled that Americans label all of them as “white”.

[halconero]

3 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

Love that story, but I think it's mostly fiction.
I see no record of any wives born in Germany, Ireland, Denmark, or the Netherlands.  His wife Christine was born in New Jersey, not Denmark.

He did have two Norweigan and one Scottish though.

https://familypedia.fandom.com/wiki/Heber_Chase_Kimball_(1801-1868)

Unsurprising. It seems like something the author would write for shock value.

On the other hand, it could also read as Heber pulling the author's leg with another member.

More than anything it serves as a useful anecdote for how diverse the author perceived the Salt Lake valley to be at the time, and how marriage might have been one way to bind communities that normally self-segregated in other settlements in the Americas.

[JLHPROF]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

Europeans (especially the racist ones) are still baffled that Americans label all of them as “white”.

Well, from experience I know the British have no desire to be confused with the Germans or the French...

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

Well, from experience I know the British have no desire to be confused with the Germans or the French...

Not just Europeans.  I think this is true of people from Central and South America as well.  They don't like it at all when someone assumes they are Mexican just because they are Latino/a, for example.  They are very attached to their specific culture (which I'm not saying is a bad thing).  We have a wonderful sister from Venezuela in our ward (she's amazing), and she is very clear about where she is from.  

It's probably true of people from the pacific islands as well.  It doesn't seem like Tongans are happy when they are assumed to be Samoan (and vice versa). Same goes for native Hawaiians and when they are assumed to be Tongan or Samoan.

[JustAnAustralian]

1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

Well, from experience I know the British have no desire to be confused with the Germans or the French...

The British don't want to be confused with other types of British either. It's somewhat surprising the English, Scottish, and Welsh managed to get over their differences and share a landmass (leaving out N. Irish for this).

Edited February 7, 2022 by JustAnAustralian

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

Well, from experience I know the British have no desire to be confused with the Germans or the French...

Ask more Americans if Italians are Caucasian or White and most will say yes. Different responses in Europe and just more granular.

[Hamba Tuhan]

24 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Ask more Americans if Italians are Caucasian or White and most will say yes. Different responses in Europe and just more granular.

Further evidence that 'race' is purely a social construct. (And in fact, there's an entire literature on this, a good bit of it written by a couple of my PhD advisers.)

Edited February 8, 2022 by Hamba Tuhan

[The Nehor]

55 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Further evidence that 'race' is purely a social construct. (And in fact, there's an entire literature on this, a good bit of it written by a couple of my PhD advisers.)

Pretty much. 

[Hamba Tuhan]

3 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Pretty much. 

Very personal opinion, but I strongly suspect that part of what the Lord intended us to learn from past priesthood restrictions was just how unworkable such things are specifically because of their artificiality.