Nonnegotiable

[Bernard Gui]

On 1/30/2022 at 11:22 AM, bluebell said:

Yes, he was a disciple of Christ before baptism because Christ had his heart.  Baptism is not required for one to be a disciple.  Many baptized people are not disciples and many unbaptized are.

Yet there is all this emphasis on  the “Covenant Path.” Seems to me the difference is in the covenants and how they are made and kept. 

Edited February 9, 2022 by Bernard Gui

[rongo]

2 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

So that would mean that, in America, you would refer to American missionaries as 'natives', right?

Americans (missionaries, or not) in America would be natives. People from whatever country you're in would be natives there.

2 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

You appear to be stating that North American and European missionaries are coddled when the serve as foreigners (i.e., outside their nations of origin), but when they serve as natives in their homelands, they aren't.

No. I'm saying (perhaps unclearly) that Western youth in general are very coddled (spoiled, indulged, pampered) right now. They are ultra-coddled when serving in other Western countries (especially North America), but when they serve in 2nd and 3rd World countries, the cultural differences mean less coddling by their very nature. This is a very good and valuable experience for Western youth. For natives, it's their life, and they don't come from as spoiled of backgrounds as the Westerners. I'll bet they are amazed at times at the social/emotional phenomena from the West. For example, anxiety/depression, emphasis on self-care, etc. Our boys pointed out several articles in this month's Church magazines, along the lines of "Sharing the gospel with my therapist." Things like that. 

2 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

And how exactly does this work since you also wrote that coddling is 'baked into the new missionary program'. How exactly does something that is baked into the program distinguish between 'native' and 'foreign' missionaries? If a native missionary is serving with a foreign companion, what structures ensure that only one of them is coddled whilst the other one isn't?

The "coddling" features are based on a default setting of North America (and, still, Utah. Five of my daughter's MTC district members are from Utah, and one is from Meridian, ID, which is heavily LDS as well. She is from Arizona, and then there is a boy from France. Almost my son's entire mission in Norway were from Utah County, not just Utah. We forget how Utah/Idaho/Arizona-dominant missionaries serving continues to be). The program is built around and for the affluent, sheltered Mormon Corridor youth. 

If one isn't a "coddled" type, then the coddling doesn't have much effect on them (hopefully). 

[Hamba Tuhan]

1 hour ago, rongo said:

I'm saying (perhaps unclearly) that Western youth in general are very coddled (spoiled, indulged, pampered) right now. They are ultra-coddled when serving in other Western countries (especially North America), but when they serve in 2nd and 3rd World countries, the cultural differences mean less coddling by their very nature.

Thanks. A quick Google search confirms that I live in a 'First World' nation (industrialised, prosperous, democratic, secular, and allied with America and the rest of the West). I therefore stand by my comments above regarding our missionaries.

Edited February 9, 2022 by Hamba Tuhan

[The Nehor]

If a society is producing people with a host of disorders and other afflictions is it really coddling? Or is the society so stressful and messed up that it is difficult to endure?

I keep hearing how the rising generation is being coddled and can’t handle reality but I see a lot of them just holding on trying to survive.