Interesting Article Re Byu Student Fighting Racism

[smac97]

Just now, Calm said:

Quote

Meanwhile, it's payback time?  Time to discriminate against white people because of the color of their skin?

Or looking it at another way, time to get a level playing field by removing advantages for whites, and not because of the color of their skin but because of the advantages that have been given them. 

Well, that gets into "white privilege."  That's not a safe assumption for me.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Calm]

3 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Is this affirmative action?  I thought that it was determined that affirmative action (racial quotas) wasn't legal in the U.S.?

I don’t know. The articles I read don’t provide enough info of how they are going to achieve it.  But it seems that is what it boils down to if they are guaranteeing a certain percentage. How else could they achieve it?

[Analytics]

20 hours ago, smac97 said:

The "principle" here is to categorically exclude white people from 40% (and, next year, 50%) of writing jobs at CBS based solely on the color of 

I'm trying to figure out how to explain this to my kids: "Hey, if you ever want to work as a writer at CBS, you will be at a severe disadvantage right from the outset.  Not because of your skills.  Not because of your background or education.  The disadvantage is based solely and entirely on your skin color.  White people are categorically excluded from half the writing job slots at CBS because of the color of their skin, whereas non-whites have access to 100% of the writing job slots at CBS because of the color of their skin.  That's the world we live in.  But somehow, it's not 'racism.'"

If one of your kids wants to be a writer for CBS, I'd explain to him or her that with very few exceptions throughout the history of the industry, people who hire TV and movie writers have either been explicitly and deliberately racist, or at best have been trying to be race agnostic but have really been inadvertently or subconsciously participating in systematic racism. I'd explain to him or that consequently, white writers have a huge advantage over non-white writers.

I'd suggest you tell him or her to join the union from which CBS hires writers, the Writers Guild of America West (WGAW). I'd suggest you tell him or her to get to know the other writers and understand their point of view about what CBS is doing and why. He or she would likely learn that the WGAW agrees with what I stated above: that up until the present time, the writing profession has in fact had huge systematic biases in favor of white writers. He or she would likely learn about a press release from the WGAW's Board of Directors last month that called for an overhaul in the way the TV and movie industries hire writers, and would learn that what CBS is doing is in direct response to what the writers guild itself requested be done.

CBS isn't engaging in reverse racism. It is finally taking proactive steps to end the largely unintentional but totally real racism that it has engaged in up until now.

https://www.wga.org/news-events/news/press/letter-to-hollywood-from-wgaw-committee-of-black-writers 

[Calm]

4 minutes ago, Analytics said:

If one of your kids wants to be a writer for CBS, I'd explain to him or her that with very few exceptions throughout the history of the industry, people who hire TV and movie writers have either been explicitly and deliberately racist, or at best have been trying to be race agnostic but have really been inadvertently or subconsciously participating in systematic racism. I'd explain to him or that consequently, white writers have a huge advantage over non-white writers.

I'd suggest you tell him or her to join the union from which CBS hires writers, the Writers Guild of America West (WGAW). I'd suggest you tell him or her to get to know the other writers and understand their point of view about what CBS is doing and why. He or she would likely learn that the WGAW agrees with what I stated above: that up until the present time, the writing profession has in fact had huge systematic biases in favor of white writers. He or she would likely learn about a press release from the WGAW's Board of Directors last month that called for an overhaul in the way the TV and movie industries hire writers, and would learn that what CBS is doing is in direct response to what the writers guild itself requested be done.

CBS isn't engaging in reverse racism. It is finally taking proactive steps to end the largely unintentional but totally real racism that it has engaged in up until now.

https://www.wga.org/news-events/news/press/letter-to-hollywood-from-wgaw-committee-of-black-writers 

And with that excellent summary, I am retiring from this part of the conversation and going back to sleep. Wish you had shown up an hour ago. Or even better yesterday. So much better explained than my stuff. 

Edited July 16, 2020 by Calm

[smac97]

7 minutes ago, Analytics said:

If one of your kids wants to be a writer for CBS, I'd explain to him or her that with very few exceptions throughout the history of the industry, people who hire TV and movie writers have either been explicitly and deliberately racist, or at best have been trying to be race agnostic but have really been inadvertently or subconsciously participating in systematic racism. I'd explain to him or that consequently, white writers have a huge advantage over non-white writers.

I can't establish that as factually true.  I don't know that you can, either.

Race-based discrimination is bad.  That is what I am teaching my kids.

I am not advocating to them notions of collective guilt.  That some white people over here can and ought to be punished because of the misconduct of some other white people over there.  Simply because they share a skin color.

I am also not advocating retributive racism.  

Quote

I'd suggest you tell him or her to join the union from which CBS hires writers, the Writers Guild of America West (WGAW). I'd suggest you tell him or her to get to know the other writers and understand their point of view about what CBS is doing and why.

That point of view would not negate the reality of what CBS is doing.

Quote

He or she would likely learn that the WGAW agrees with what I stated above: that up until the present time, the writing profession has in fact had huge systematic biases in favor of white writers. He or she would likely learn about a press release from the WGAW's Board of Directors last month that called for an overhaul in the way the TV and movie industries hire writers, and would learn that what CBS is doing is in direct response to what the writers guild itself requested be done.

Again, a press release does not negate the reality of what CBS is doing: discriminating against white applicants solely because of their skin color.

Quote

CBS isn't engaging in reverse racism.

It certainly is.  Categorically excluding white people from 50% of writing jobs solely because of their skin color is "racism."

I don't feel particularly comfortable with "reverse racism," as it presupposes that racism is a one-way street.  It's not.

Quote

It is finally taking proactive steps to end the largely unintentional but totally real racism that it has engaged in up until now.

https://www.wga.org/news-events/news/press/letter-to-hollywood-from-wgaw-committee-of-black-writers 

And the "proactive steps" include . . . expressly and intentionally discriminating against white job applicants solely because of the color of their skin.

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited July 16, 2020 by smac97

[smac97]

Terry Crews has some interesting thoughts:

Quote

Terry Crews Cites Nick Cannon’s Racist Anti-White Comments: I Told Ya So
"Defeating White supremacy without White people creates Black supremacy"
By  Amanda Prestigiacomo•Jul 16, 2020   DailyWire.com

Actor Terry Crews essentially gave the world a big “I told ya so” on Wednesday after he was lambasted {} for challenging their racial narrative and warning Black Lives Matter activists against slipping into “black supremacy” ideology.

The former NFL player used his own words to caption a video of entrainer Nick Cannon spewing anti-white rhetoric, which Crews said was rooted in the kind of ideology he warned against.

“We have to include this white voice, this Hispanic voice, this Asian voice. We have to include it RIGHT NOW, because if we don’t […] it’s going to slip into something we are really not prepared for,” Crews posted, quoting himself. “Terry Crews ‘THE TALK interview’ June 16th, 2020,'” he added.

During a “Cannon’s Class” podcast that hit the internet this week, the 39-year-old former Nickelodeon star said whites are inferior to blacks, adding that white people are “savages,” the “only way that they can act is evil,” and they “have to rob, steal, rape, kill … in order to survive.”

“Melanin comes with compassion, melanin comes with soul,” Cannon said. “We call it soul. Soul brothers and sisters. That’s the melanin that connects us. So the people that don’t have it, and I’m going to say this carefully, are a little less.”

Is Nick Cannon's anti-semitic rhetoric okay?  It would seem not.

Nevertheless, it looks like Mr. Crews has come under fire:

Quote

In reaction to Crews’ pointed tweet, one Twitter user told the actor “no black person” will have his back: “You going so hard against Nick Cannon, but when you fall, NO BLACK PERSON will have your back. Watch.”

“When I was young, I was never afraid of the KKK,” Crews responded. “It was people like you. The threats, the intimidation, discouraging free thought, and ‘the insult of acting white.’ My heart breaks because your behavior only reveals you don’t know how powerful you are.”
...
“Defeating White supremacy without White people creates Black supremacy,” Crews tweeted last month. “Equality is the truth. Like it or not, we are all in this together.”

The actor was swarmed with backlash {} over the warning.

In response, Crews posted, “I was not saying Black supremacy exists because it doesn’t. I am saying if both Black and Whites don’t continue to work together – bad attitudes and resentments can create a dangerous self-righteousness. That’s all.”

Wise words, I think.

I think we need to work together.  

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited July 16, 2020 by smac97

[Storm Rider]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

When you have numbers like 2 million blacks and 2.5 million Hispanics in NYC and the total number of CBS employees in NYC may be around 13,000, I doubt with a little work and patience they won’t be able to find enough capable black and Hispanic writers to qualify. 

I think the challenge is different than what you are focusing on. Granted qualified candidates would be a problem given the low graduation rates among both of these groups, where I see the biggest challenge is all companies will want to improve their diversity and thus the demand will be very high for the few that will be available.  

As far as CBS goes, I thought someone mentioned these would be for writers.  When you look at what majors both Blacks and Hispanics pursue most, degrees in writing don't even register. This only further limits the number of qualified candidates.

What may be more productive is if potential employers worked harder to attract internships among these targeted groups - particularly if they were paid internships. If the internships were offered earlier than normal - Freshmen and Sophomore - this would accomplish several things - offer compensation for the summer, quarter, or semester and encourage individuals to focus on specific degrees that would give them the qualifications and confidence to pursue these jobs.  

[smac97]

4 hours ago, Meadowchik said:

Quote

Nope.  I read about it on a blog.  Does that matter?

It might. If the blog was of a strong political bent, it might have taken the graphic out of context.

That's the beautiful thing about the Internet.  The blog included a link to the website, thus allowing me to review the graphic within its intended context.  Which I did.

4 hours ago, Meadowchik said:

The way you are talking about it seems to me to show a very partisan response.

Not really.  My response was not grounded in my political affiliation. 

4 hours ago, Meadowchik said:

And since you have in the past offered sources like Ben Shapiro and PragerU, I was wondering if you're also coming at the graphic from that kind of lens. 

My worldview is informed by all sorts of influences: sociopolitical philosophies, religious precepts, personal life experiences, my education and readings, my training and practice as an attorney, and so on.

My political affiliation is very second-tier.  I am not a fan of either political party.  Though one more approximates my views more than the other, neither is the source of my views.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Calm]

2 hours ago, smac97 said:

was in the Parents Involved case that Chief Justice Roberts wrote: “The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.”  I think that's correct.

How would you suggest overcoming the prejudicial stereotype assumptions that influence hiring practices. For example, I was never asked if I would be punctual to my job. It was just assumed I guess. If someone did have that perception that whites were more punctual than others and it was important to them even though it might not be that relevant to a job, how would you suggest removing that from their unspoken requirements list?  Or any other such either unnecessary requirements or inaccurate perceptions?

Or the attitude apparently expressed by another poster that there won’t be enough qualified POC to fill the job slots, contrary to reality. 
 

Quote

However, the WGAW 2020 Inclusion Report found that “systemic discrimination against writers from underrepresented groups remains pervasive,” and white male writers still got 80% of all film jobs in 2019 while Black writers only got 5.6% of writing jobs, according to UCLA’s 2020 Hollywood Diversity Report. Some have tried to blame this on a shortage of Black writers, yet there are at least 808 self-identified Black writers in the Guild; we have been here, ready to work.

https://deadline.com/2020/06/wga-west-committee-of-black-writers-co-chairs-call-on-hollywood-to-revolutionize-the-way-our-industry-hires-writers-1202958013/

Edited July 16, 2020 by Calm

[smac97]

11 minutes ago, Calm said:

Quote

It was in the Parents Involved case that Chief Justice Roberts wrote: “The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.”  I think that's correct.

How would you suggest overcoming the prejudicial stereotype assumptions that influence hiring practices.

Quantify them.  Compile competent evidence to establish that they exist.  Utilize the legal framework we've had in place for a very long time to address instances where discriminatory practices arise.

What I would not suggest, is resorting to one flavor of race-based discrimination to counter another flavor of race-based discrimination.  Both are bad.

Quote

For example, I was never asked if I would be punctual to my job. It was just assumed I guess. If someone did have that perception that whites were more punctual than others and it was important to them even though it might not be that relevant to a job, how would you suggest removing that from their unspoken requirements list?  Or any other such either unnecessary requirements or inaccurate perceptions?

Again, quantify them.  Demonstrate that they exist.  Then educate and inform.  Use the carrot (persuasion) and, where necessary, the stick (the Civil Rights Act).

Vague assumptions about generalized, systemic discrimination is not workable.  

Responding to past instances of race-based discrimination with more race-based discrimination does not seem to be sound public policy.

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited July 16, 2020 by smac97

[SeekingUnderstanding]

2 hours ago, smac97 said:

can't establish that as factually true.  I don't know that you can, either.

Race-based discrimination is bad.  That is what I am teaching my kids.

I am not advocating to them notions of collective guilt.  That some white people over here can and ought to be punished because of the misconduct of some other white people over there.  Simply because they share a skin color.

In this country, based on the color of their skin, black Africans were ripped from their homes, and sold as slaves. For a couple hundred years, they were property. Families were broken up routinely. Women were raped by their masters. Their identity and culture was taken from them. You aren’t responsible for this. 
 

After the civil war, blacks were free, but were subject to laws that restricted their ability to vote, own property and participate equally in society. Lynchings were common, the KKK ran supreme. You aren’t responsible for this.
 

Over the last 40 years, society has finally made great strides in removing overt racism, but structural inequality exists. By Almost any metric, black Americans are worse off than their white peers. The reasons can be tied by a direct chain of events back to the days when their ancestors were slaves. You say that a company setting a minority hiring target is unacceptable racism against white people. What is your solution to correct the systemic problems that exist today? Or does nothing more need to be done in your opinion?

[smac97]

23 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Quote

can't establish that as factually true.  I don't know that you can, either.

Race-based discrimination is bad.  That is what I am teaching my kids.

I am not advocating to them notions of collective guilt.  That some white people over here can and ought to be punished because of the misconduct of some other white people over there.  Simply because they share a skin color.

In this country, based on the color of their skin, black Africans were ripped from their homes, and sold as slaves.

Which was a terrible thing.  

But I notice you use the passive voice ("black Africans were ripped from their homes, and sold as slaves...").

Why is that?

My suspicion is that you are suggesting that in 2020 I, Spencer Macdonald, by dint of being a white person, am culpable for the horrible deeds of long-dead people who shared my generalized level of melanin.

Is that suspicion incorrect?

Quote

For a couple hundred years, they were property. Families were broken up routinely. Women were raped by their masters. Their identity and culture was taken from them. You aren’t responsible for this.

After the civil war, blacks were free, but were subject to laws that restricted their ability to vote, own property and participate equally in society. Lynchings were common, the KKK ran supreme. You aren’t responsible for this.

So my suspicion was incorrect, it seems.  Curious, then, that you are presenting such things to me in this context.

Quote

Over the last 40 years, society has finally made great strides in removing overt racism, but structural inequality exists.

I don't know what "structural inequality" means.

Quote

By Almost any metric, black Americans are worse off than their white peers.

And their Asian peers.  Right?  Right?

Quote

The reasons can be tied by a direct chain of events back to the days when their ancestors were slaves.

I dispute that.  Quite a bit, actually.

Quote

You say that a company setting a minority hiring target is unacceptable racism against white people.

I am saying that discriminating against job applicants solely because of their race is bad.

Quote

What is your solution to correct the systemic problems that exist today? Or does nothing more need to be done in your opinion?

You'll first have to identify, define and quantify these "systemic problems."  Let's be sure we're not chasing ghosts.

Broadly speaking, I think we should emphasize and encourage education, reduce constraints on economic opportunity, and also have non-governmental community leaders advocate and encourage healthy behaviors relating to substance abuse, violence (abstaining from it), sexual behaviors, advocate and emphasize the importance of family (marriage, sexual fidelity, parenthood, etc.), encourage personal ethics/responsibility, encourage less long-term reliance on welfare programs, and so on.

Certainly we can and search for ways to improve how we handle race-based discrimination.  Those ways should not, I think, include specifically and celebratingly resorting to race-based discrimination.  Singling out and punishing white people now for the past sins of other white people makes no sense.

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited July 16, 2020 by smac97

[SeekingUnderstanding]

1 minute ago, smac97 said:

My suspicion is that you are suggesting that in 2020 I, Spencer Macdonald, by dint of being a white person, am culpable for the horrible deeds of long-dead people who shared my generalized level of melanin.

Is that suspicion incorrect?

Entirely incorrect. I John Krogue son of John hold you entirely blameless when it comes to the crime of slavery. 

[Calm]

4 minutes ago, smac97 said:

So my suspicion was incorrect, it seems.  Curious, then, that you are presenting such things to me in this context.

Do you not read the whole post before responding?  Just curious.

[Calm]

5 minutes ago, smac97 said:

dispute that.  Quite a bit, actually.

Seriously?  You don’t believe that an extensive part of the experience of blacks today is tied to the series of actions that had the purpose of controlling and exploiting blacks starting back with slavery?

What do you see instead?

[Calm]

11 minutes ago, smac97 said:

think we should emphasize and encourage education,

And this means what?  Blacks go to schools now, but the quality of the education is often not that great.  Scholarships only help a small percentage. How would you suggest improving the quality of education?

https://www.npr.org/2019/02/26/696794821/why-white-school-districts-have-so-much-more-money

Quote

The report starts with a number: $23 billion. According to EdBuild, that's how much morefunding predominantly white school districts receive compared with districts that serve mostly students of color. 

"For every student enrolled, the average nonwhite school district receives $2,226 less than a white school district," the report says.

 

[Calm]

Quote

reduce constraints on economic opportunity...

Meaning what?

[Storm Rider]

10 minutes ago, Calm said:

And this means what?  Blacks go to schools now, but the quality of the education is often not that great.  Scholarships only help a small percentage. How would you suggest improving the quality of education?

https://www.npr.org/2019/02/26/696794821/why-white-school-districts-have-so-much-more-money

 

As I was reading this topic, I was surprised that Blacks also graduate more often from for-profit colleges, which provide less time to assisting students succeed. There has to be some way that those who are interested in a college education are attending universities that provide a higher caliber of instruction and support for students.  

This education issue is multi-layered that begins in elementary school and goes through the university level. 

[Scott Lloyd]

44 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Entirely incorrect. I John Krogue son of John hold you entirely blameless when it comes to the crime of slavery. 

Then what’s your answer to his implied follow-up question? why bring it up in this context? 

Edited July 16, 2020 by Scott Lloyd

[smac97]

1 minute ago, Calm said:

Quote

Quote

The reasons can be tied by a direct chain of events back to the days when their ancestors were slaves.

I dispute that.  Quite a bit, actually.

Seriously?

Seriously.  I wouldn't joke or make light of such a serious topic.

Note that I was disputing a "direct chain of events."

"Direct."

1 minute ago, Calm said:

You don’t believe that an extensive part of the experience of blacks today is tied to the series of actions that had the purpose of controlling and exploiting blacks starting back with slavery?

Not really.

1 minute ago, Calm said:

What do you see instead?

A number of factors.  Here are a few:

1. Historic racism and injustice certainly play a part, though in diminishing ways as we move through time.

2. Current racism certainly plays a part.  But I don't think it's systemic any more.  It's more individualized.

3. The "Welfare State" have done huge damage to the African-American community.  Thomas Sowell (who, I hasten to add to preemptively defend myself against accusations that I am speaking from a purely "white" perspective, is black) has influenced my thinking about this:

More here: https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/thomas-sowell-on-the-legacy-of-slavery-vs-the-legacy-of-liberalism/

4. "Culture" seems to be a contributing problem.  See, e.g., here:

Quote

The destructive, twisted values of thug culture
The Baltimore Sun
May 6, 2008

You've heard of resume' inflation? You've heard of people who lie about having Ph.D.s or Ivy League pedigrees in order to get ahead?

The world of thug culture has its own perverse equivalent, in which middle-class men with minor legal transgressions exaggerate their bad behavior, claiming to be hard-core degenerates in order to impress youngsters looking for outlaw role models. In this destructive environment, the more violent and predatory you are, the more heroic you seem.

That helps to explain why a hip-hop star known as Akon wove a tall tale of malevolence and criminal activity, claiming to have spent three years in prison for running a "notorious car theft operation," a story he's been telling for years. In fact, he has apparently never served hard prison time. A Web site called The Smoking Gun recently exposed Akon as a thug wannabe, a "James Frey with ... an American Music Award."

American popular culture has always had a tendency to romanticize hoodlums, whether Al Capone, Bonnie and Clyde or Tony Soprano. But the hip-hop world's celebration of savage violence, educational failure and misogyny by gangsta rap has been one of the worst influences on American youths, especially black youths, in decades. If you want to ruin a nation, a society or an ethnic group, persuade its members that the highest form of achievement lies in criminality.

Even before the 1980s, when gangsta rap oozed out of downtrodden black neighborhoods, too many black men were marginalized - unlettered, unemployed, imprisoned. They were already the victims of a fratricidal cycle of violence, predator and prey. They were already disproportionately fathers in absentia, completely divorced from the lives of their children, providing neither material support nor moral guidance.
...
Proponents of hard-core hip-hop claim that it is an artistic genre that merely reflects those unfortunate realities of underclass black life; they tout it as a pure form of folk art (in its original meaning, arising from the folk, or common people). Countless books and dissertations have disseminated that view.

But folk art has never been so popular - or lucrative. The worst of gangsta rap has not merely reflected behavior but has also inspired it, much of it lawless and destructive. Its lyrics are paeans to murder and mayhem. It celebrates an outlaw culture that disrespects women, mocks middle-class values and preaches against any cooperation with police in catching criminals.

That's why Akon, whose real name is Aliaune Thiam, made up a criminal history, claiming that he was a carjacker who owned chop shops but was finally brought down because he was ratted out by jealous underlings. You gain respect in thug culture - and millions of dollars in record and ring-tone sales - if you're a bona fide thug.
...
If black men such as Mr. Thiam enthusiastically abandon a passable reputation for the notoriety of a prison record, black America is in serious trouble.

If it is better to be an outlaw than to be a teacher or a chemist or accountant, young black men will continue to go to prison in record numbers.

If it is more acceptable to be violent and reckless than to be a responsible father and husband, marriage will continue to decline in black communities.

While racism remains a potent force in American life, it doesn't hold the malignant power of gangsta culture. The upside-down value system represented by Akon's fabrications is helping to destroy a generation.

Cynthia Tucker is editorial page editor for The Atlanta Journal-Constitution. Her column appears regularly in The Sun. Her e-mail is cynthia@ajc.com.

5. Personal responsibility and family life is a huge factor.  

I'm sure there are more.

Thanks,

-Smac

[smac97]

34 minutes ago, Calm said:

Quote

think we should emphasize and encourage education,

And this means what?  

Um, isn't it self-evident?

34 minutes ago, Calm said:

Blacks go to schools now, but the quality of the education is often not that great.  

There are a number of factors involved in that.

34 minutes ago, Calm said:

Scholarships only help a small percentage. 

I'm not sure how that is relevant.

34 minutes ago, Calm said:

How would you suggest improving the quality of education?

https://www.npr.org/2019/02/26/696794821/why-white-school-districts-have-so-much-more-money

School choice?

Greater emphasis by family members and non-governmental community leaders?

Cynthia Tucker's Op-Ed (quoted in my previous post) touches on some of the cultural problems that may be in play.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Calm]

Assuming the quote is accurate, why do you think thug culture is appealing to so many blacks?

[Calm]

2 minutes ago, smac97 said:

School choice?

Greater emphasis by family members and non-governmental community leaders?

And how can they choose better schools when such are not in their district due to lack of funding?

Greater emphasis to go to crap schools still results in crap education.

So how would you suggest they improve the schools?

——

Scholarships to good schools only allow access to good schools for a small number of black students in school districts with poorly funded schools. 

Edited July 16, 2020 by Calm

[Amulek]

On 7/14/2020 at 12:17 PM, smac97 said:

Racism is incompatible with the Restored Gospel.  However, it's also a highly subjective, heavilty politicized, moving target.  Nevertheless, I'm open to discussing it.  What do you think?  Should a prohibition against "racist remarks and actions" be added to BYU's Honor Code?

I think the principles in the Honor Code already encapsulate what such a change is intended to cover. 

Plus, while we can all certainly think of remarks or actions which would be undeniably racist, I think there's a pretty big spectrum of gray area in between undeniably racist and unequivocally not racist remarks/actions.

And, while I could be wrong about this, my perception is that many students / alumni find the Honor Code Office to be...not always adept when it comes to dealing with highly sensitive, highly nuanced issues. Why on earth would anyone think it would be a good idea to throw them smack dab into the middle of this one?

 

[smac97]

52 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Entirely incorrect. I John Krogue son of John hold you entirely blameless when it comes to the crime of slavery. 

Good to know.  But then why present me with a litany of plain-as-day statements about the plight of African-Americans at the hands of (now dead) white Americans?

If I were having a discussion with a person of German extraction about anti-semitism, and if I then said "Germans killed millions of Jews, Romani, and other 'undesirables' during World War II, even though you didn't," what do you suppose the German would think about why I just made that super-duper obvious point?

Thanks,

-Smac