JLHPROF Posted February 15, 2020 Posted February 15, 2020 https://www.sltrib.com/news/politics/2020/02/14/utah-senate-votes/ They literally voted to increase the penalties and felony level just two or three years ago. I am curious what would cause a unanimous vote to undo that and go further. If this passes the House and the Governor signs it Utah could be very different. Again, unanimously! Wow. 3
Popular Post katherine the great Posted February 15, 2020 Popular Post Posted February 15, 2020 Well if I decide to take a second husband, I guess I'll move to Utah. Frankly I don't care if people marry multiple spouses if all parties are adults who are in favor of such a bizarre arrangement. Polygamy is really just another form of marriage. However, coercing young women into polygamy under pain of punishment (on earth or in heaven) IMO is immoral and should be illegal. Polygamy as a religious principle, to my knowledge is very rare in the human experience. It has traditionally been a practical arrangement. 7
JLHPROF Posted February 15, 2020 Author Posted February 15, 2020 The text of the changes is here https://le.utah.gov/~2020/bills/static/SB0102.html I thought they were just removing the criminality of so-called unlawful cohabitation (spiritual polygamy). This appears to remove the criminality of bigamy in general as well and makes it only a felony when other laws are broken. 2
katherine the great Posted February 15, 2020 Posted February 15, 2020 15 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: I thought they were just removing the criminality of so-called unlawful cohabitation (spiritual polygamy). This appears to remove the criminality of bigamy in general as well and makes it only a felony when other laws are broken. It seems outrageous. Inducing one into polygamy against their will is a third degree felony? Shouldn't this be akin to kidnapping? (and rape?) 1
JLHPROF Posted February 15, 2020 Author Posted February 15, 2020 3 minutes ago, katherine the great said: It seems outrageous. Inducing one into polygamy against their will is a third degree felony? Shouldn't this be akin to kidnapping? (and rape?) Agreed. But you could say the same about inducing one into a monogamous marriage, or a same sex marriage, or any underage marriage. All those pregnant teens forced by parents to marry the father, or shotgun weddings. A separate issue from polygamy I think. 3
katherine the great Posted February 15, 2020 Posted February 15, 2020 6 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: Agreed. But you could say the same about inducing one into a monogamous marriage, or a same sex marriage, or any underage marriage. Of course! Why are any of those things tolerated by society?
california boy Posted February 15, 2020 Posted February 15, 2020 Where is the outrage from the Church? Where are the protesters carrying signs saying "Marriage is between only one man and one woman". Where are the millions of dollars going to fight this Where are all the slippery slope arguments claiming that now a man will marry multiple farm animals? I am sure it is coming any day now. Certainly this is the second step to the entire fall of mankind and will be the beginning of the end of the world. 4
katherine the great Posted February 15, 2020 Posted February 15, 2020 4 hours ago, california boy said: Where is the outrage from the Church? Where are the protesters carrying signs saying "Marriage is between only one man and one woman". Where are the millions of dollars going to fight this Where are all the slippery slope arguments claiming that now a man will marry multiple farm animals? Or maybe there was a take home lesson from the California debacle. 🤷♀️ 2
smac97 Posted February 15, 2020 Posted February 15, 2020 55 minutes ago, katherine the great said: Or maybe there was a take home lesson from the California debacle. 🤷♀️ Or maybe the damage to the institution has already been done. 1
california boy Posted February 15, 2020 Posted February 15, 2020 5 minutes ago, smac97 said: Or maybe the damage to the institution has already been done. Oh yeah, the "gays" ruined the institution of marriage, not the 50% divorce rate. 1
Calm Posted February 15, 2020 Posted February 15, 2020 1 minute ago, california boy said: Oh yeah, the "gays" ruined the institution of marriage, not the 50% divorce rate. The adultery rate would be more relevant to a "one man, one woman' stance than the divorce rate, imo. 4
katherine the great Posted February 15, 2020 Posted February 15, 2020 14 minutes ago, smac97 said: Or maybe the damage to the institution has already been done. How does gay marriage damage heterosexual marriage? 3
california boy Posted February 15, 2020 Posted February 15, 2020 3 minutes ago, Calm said: The adultery rate would be more relevant to a "one man, one woman' stance than the divorce rate, imo. There is that too. Gay marriage has very little to do with the state of the institution of marriage. It is just that the Church found it easier to attack gay couples.
Calm Posted February 15, 2020 Posted February 15, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, california boy said: There is that too. Gay marriage has very little to do with the state of the institution of marriage. It is just that the Church found it easier to attack gay couples. Have you seen any legislation or major voting on making adultery legal? Serious question as I don’t pay close attention to such. Edited February 16, 2020 by Calm
smac97 Posted February 15, 2020 Posted February 15, 2020 1 hour ago, california boy said: Oh yeah, the "gays" ruined the institution of marriage, not the 50% divorce rate. It's not an either/or. Divorce is damaging, but did not radically redefine the institution, or undermine its association with procreation/children. 1
smac97 Posted February 15, 2020 Posted February 15, 2020 1 hour ago, Calm said: Have you seen any legislature or major voting on making adultery legal? Serious question as I don’t pay close attention to such. Utah decriminalized fornication in 2018 or 2019.
webbles Posted February 15, 2020 Posted February 15, 2020 7 hours ago, california boy said: Where is the outrage from the Church? Where are the protesters carrying signs saying "Marriage is between only one man and one woman". Where are the millions of dollars going to fight this Where are all the slippery slope arguments claiming that now a man will marry multiple farm animals? I am sure it is coming any day now. Certainly this is the second step to the entire fall of mankind and will be the beginning of the end of the world. I think there is a large difference between decriminalizing an act and sanctioning an act. I don't think there were any protests from the church around the "Lawence v Texas" court case and this law change is similar to that. I'm not even sure if the church submitted an amicus curiae brief. 2
california boy Posted February 15, 2020 Posted February 15, 2020 2 hours ago, Calm said: Have you seen any legislature or major voting on making adultery legal? Serious question as I don’t pay close attention to such. No. Just state legislatures making gay marriage illegal in order to "protect the sanctity of marriage". It was more about prejudice than it ever was about protecting marriage.
california boy Posted February 16, 2020 Posted February 16, 2020 41 minutes ago, webbles said: I think there is a large difference between decriminalizing an act and sanctioning an act. I don't think there were any protests from the church around the "Lawence v Texas" court case and this law change is similar to that. I'm not even sure if the church submitted an amicus curiae brief. The Church couldn't do anything about a Supreme Court ruling. To do so would require a U.S. Constitutional Amendment. But the Church could do something about a California Supreme Court ruling by passing an proposition that amended the State Constitution, taking away that civil right. It is really hard to not just take what the Church did as prejudice against gay families, especially after all the other things they have instituted against gay families. The only thing the Church could do is not allow gay children to be baptized and excommunicate any gay who is married and call them apostates. Which is exactly what they did. So why not just own up to it.
california boy Posted February 16, 2020 Posted February 16, 2020 1 hour ago, smac97 said: It's not an either/or. Divorce is damaging, but did not radically redefine the institution, or undermine its association with procreation/children. So you think breaking sacred covenants doesn't redefine what marriage is suppose to be? Yeah, thought not.
smac97 Posted February 16, 2020 Posted February 16, 2020 1 hour ago, california boy said: So you think breaking sacred covenants doesn't redefine what marriage is suppose to be? Yeah, thought not. Nope. Not a redefinition. At all. 3
JLHPROF Posted February 16, 2020 Author Posted February 16, 2020 (edited) I honestly think if polygamy is ever legalized again on top of SSM the Church will stop performing weddings and make it sealings only. I just can't see them picking and choosing which perfectly legal member marriages they perform and which they don't. But I can see them continuing to limit sealings to monogamous heterosexual relationships. Edited February 16, 2020 by JLHPROF 2
smac97 Posted February 16, 2020 Posted February 16, 2020 2 hours ago, california boy said: The Church couldn't do anything about a Supreme Court ruling. To do so would require a U.S. Constitutional Amendment. But the Church could do something about a California Supreme Court ruling by passing an proposition that amended the State Constitution, taking away that civil right. It is really hard to not just take what the Church did as prejudice against gay families, especially after all the other things they have instituted against gay families. The only thing the Church could do is not allow gay children to be baptized and excommunicate any gay who is married and call them apostates. Which is exactly what they did. So why not just own up to it. Because what you are attributing to us is false. 1
Calm Posted February 16, 2020 Posted February 16, 2020 3 hours ago, smac97 said: Utah decriminalized fornication in 2018 or 2019. Seriously? Wow. Good to know, thanks. I wonder if I just forgot or wasn't paying attention. Probably only would have noticed if it was mentioned on the board.
smac97 Posted February 16, 2020 Posted February 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, Calm said: Seriously? Wow. Good to know, thanks. I wonder if I just forgot or wasn't paying attention. Probably only would have noticed if it was mentioned on the board. 2019. https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title76/Chapter7/C76-7-S104_1800010118000101.pdf 1
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