Sunslight Posted February 9, 2020 Posted February 9, 2020 1 hour ago, mfbukowski said: Well I have kind of sworn off this board for arguing about the bizarre confusions one finds here that are wastes of time to correct over and over and over like this one but had to come back to say something about this. How the heck do you presume to know what Christ "layered in" or not?? Who are you to tell me that YOU are the arbiter of what constitutes "twisting" or "stretcheing"? We are here to find inspiration where we find it. It is obvious that you are from a fundamentalist background, and that is fine but there is much you need to learn about letting the Lord lead you. The temple is not about hand shakes- it is infinitely expandable and the greatest revelation mankind has ever received but NONE of it is "literal". Sorry your feathers got ruffled. So, which glory is the lost silver piece that is found? The point about the parables given in the chapter is plainly about repentance, not glories. Christ has other instances where he discourses on glories, this isn't one of them.
CV75 Posted February 9, 2020 Posted February 9, 2020 18 minutes ago, Sunslight said: Sorry your feathers got ruffled. So, which glory is the lost silver piece that is found? The point about the parables given in the chapter is plainly about repentance, not glories. Christ has other instances where he discourses on glories, this isn't one of them. In this parable we can find symbols for glories: paradise (the prodigals’ original state), various telestial and terrestrial degrees (riotous living, want, another country, servitude, swine, servants and hired servants), and celestial (merriment, and all that the father has). The prodigal could have gotten stuck in any of the lesser stages and stopped in his progress ... The older son cold have remained stuck in paradise as well! 1
Sunslight Posted February 10, 2020 Posted February 10, 2020 19 minutes ago, CV75 said: In this parable we can find symbols for glories: paradise (the prodigals’ original state), various telestial and terrestrial degrees (riotous living, want, another country, servitude, swine, servants and hired servants), and celestial (merriment, and all that the father has). The prodigal could have gotten stuck in any of the lesser stages and stopped in his progress ... The older son cold have remained stuck in paradise as well! Sounds like quite the stretch. Isn't telestial glory supposed to surpass all understanding? Riotous living isn't glory that surpasseth all understanding.
The Nehor Posted February 10, 2020 Posted February 10, 2020 28 minutes ago, Sunslight said: Sounds like quite the stretch. Isn't telestial glory supposed to surpass all understanding? Riotous living isn't glory that surpasseth all understanding. You are not doing riotous living right. 3
mfbukowski Posted February 10, 2020 Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Sunslight said: Sorry your feathers got ruffled. So, which glory is the lost silver piece that is found? The point about the parables given in the chapter is plainly about repentance, not glories. Christ has other instances where he discourses on glories, this isn't one of them. Answer the question How the heck do you presume to know what Christ "layered in" or not?? Who are you to tell me that YOU are the arbiter of what constitutes "twisting" or "stretching"? And what is wrong with either if it brings you closer to God? What do you care if someone finds a astronomical analogy in the parable? What if someone learns anything you might disprove of that guides them in their lives?? Edited February 10, 2020 by mfbukowski
mfbukowski Posted February 10, 2020 Posted February 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Sunslight said: Sounds like quite the stretch. CFR.
InCognitus Posted February 10, 2020 Posted February 10, 2020 40 minutes ago, The Nehor said: You are not doing riotous living right. King Noah was a master of "riotous living": "[H]e placed his heart upon his riches, and he spent his time in riotous living with his wives and his concubines; and so did also his priests spend their time with harlots. And it came to pass that he planted vineyards round about in the land; and he built wine-presses, and made wine in abundance; and therefore he became a wine-bibber, and also his people." (Mosiah 11:14-15) If that's the definition of "riotous living", then telestial it is.
Sunslight Posted February 10, 2020 Posted February 10, 2020 46 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: Answer the question How the heck do you presume to know what Christ "layered in" or not?? Who are you to tell me that YOU are the arbiter of what constitutes "twisting" or "stretching"? And what is wrong with either if it brings you closer to God? What do you care if someone finds a astronomical analogy in the parable? What if someone learns anything you might disprove of that guides them in their lives?? Why are you so upset? Relax brother. The problem with reading things into parables that aren't implied is that it changes the original intent and in the end has the propensity to spread false doctrines.
Sunslight Posted February 10, 2020 Posted February 10, 2020 42 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: CFR. A CFR for what? For telestial glory that surpasses all understanding? Read section 76.
mfbukowski Posted February 10, 2020 Posted February 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, Sunslight said: Why are you so upset? Relax brother. The problem with reading things into parables that aren't implied is that it changes the original intent and in the end has the propensity to spread false doctrines. Who is the arbiter of "original intent"? 3rd time I have asked, no answers.
mfbukowski Posted February 10, 2020 Posted February 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, Sunslight said: A CFR for what? For telestial glory that surpasses all understanding? Read section 76. Showing YOU are the final arbiter of the truth of all parables.
Sunslight Posted February 10, 2020 Posted February 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: Showing YOU are the final arbiter of the truth of all parables. I'm not going to go on with this conversation with you. You seem upset and I'm not here to argue.
mfbukowski Posted February 10, 2020 Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Sunslight said: I'm not going to go on with this conversation with you. You seem upset and I'm not here to argue. I am not upset at all, in fact I agree with you that the parable is not about the degrees of glory but about repentance. And of course you are here to argue. Every post you make presents your argument, even if ill-defined. But it is clear you refuse to answer the point that NO ONE is the arbiter of what can learn from the scriptures if God inspires them to see it a different way, and you refuse to even acknowledge the question. I will make you a deal. Ignore me and I will be overjoyed to put you on ignore as well. There is no point in trying to discuss something with someone who cannot answer questions about their positions, and it illustrates total lack of credibility. Edited February 10, 2020 by mfbukowski
Sunslight Posted February 10, 2020 Posted February 10, 2020 1 minute ago, mfbukowski said: I am not upset at all, in fact I agree with you that the parable is not about the degrees of glory but about repentance. But it is clear you refuse to answer the point that NO ONE is the arbiter of what can learn from the scriptures if God inspires them to see it a different way, and you refuse to even acknowledge the question. I will make you a deal. Ignore me and I will be overjoyed to put you on ignore as well. There is no point in trying to discuss something with someone who cannot answer questions about their positions, and it illustrates total lack of credibility. I am not an arbiter. I'm just saying that if one is trying to read into the story the younger brother getting a lesser glory than the other brother perhaps he or she has completely missed the principle Christ is teaching here.
Sunslight Posted February 10, 2020 Posted February 10, 2020 As it relates, this is an excellent video that brings it full circle. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/inspiration/latter-day-saints-channel/watch/series/mormon-messages/the-other-prodigal-son?lang=eng
mfbukowski Posted February 10, 2020 Posted February 10, 2020 6 minutes ago, Sunslight said: I am not an arbiter. I'm just saying that if one is trying to read into the story the younger brother getting a lesser glory than the other brother perhaps he or she has completely missed the principle Christ is teaching here. Or you are limiting what one can learn from scripture to your interpretation...
Sunslight Posted February 10, 2020 Posted February 10, 2020 Just now, mfbukowski said: Or you are limiting what one can learn from scripture to your interpretation... The meaning is clear. Go do a search on the church site. It's all the same, it's all about repentance, nothing less and nothing more. It's definitely not about glories.
mfbukowski Posted February 10, 2020 Posted February 10, 2020 7 minutes ago, Sunslight said: As it relates, this is an excellent video that brings it full circle. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/inspiration/latter-day-saints-channel/watch/series/mormon-messages/the-other-prodigal-son?lang=eng Yes I heard the talk. Great talk! Your point?
mfbukowski Posted February 10, 2020 Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Sunslight said: The meaning is clear. Go do a search on the church site. It's all the same, it's all about repentance, nothing less and nothing more. It's definitely not about glories. No "meaning " is clear but what God reveals to us. Prophets and churches are not infallible and none of those Sources say that any other gospel interpretation is incorrect. Edited February 10, 2020 by mfbukowski
mfbukowski Posted February 10, 2020 Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) Do you know who Jim Jones is? If you don't I suggest you look him up. We are here to think for ourselves and receive inspiration as Lord guides us individually. Edited February 10, 2020 by mfbukowski
Sunslight Posted February 10, 2020 Posted February 10, 2020 9 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: Do you know who Jim Jones is? If you don't I suggest you look him up. We are here to think for ourselves and receive inspiration as Lord guides us individually. What are you insinuating?
mfbukowski Posted February 10, 2020 Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Sunslight said: What are you insinuating? I am not insinuating anything but it seems you don't like to answer questions. It appears that you are not very clear on a lot of issues that are clearly taught by the church. That's no problem. But your air of authority kind of gives you a dictatorial appearance, while at the same time preaching what is clearly not church doctrine. So answer that question. Do you know about Jim Jones? Edited February 10, 2020 by mfbukowski
Sunslight Posted February 10, 2020 Posted February 10, 2020 1 minute ago, mfbukowski said: I am not insinuating anything but it seems you don't like to answer questions. It appears that you are not very clear on a lot of issues that are clearly taught by the church. That's no problem. But your air of authority kind of gives you a dictatorial appearance, while at the same time preaching what is clearly not church doctrine. So answer that question. Do you know about Jim Jones? Brother if you are insinuating I am like the cult leader Jim Jones that would be bad.
mfbukowski Posted February 10, 2020 Posted February 10, 2020 14 minutes ago, Sunslight said: Brother if you are insinuating I am like the cult leader Jim Jones that would be bad. I have no idea how you got that impression. I am doing no such thing. This is a parable. You are the expert at parables. Jim Jones set himself up as the Arbiter of Truth. You have already admitted you are not an arbiter If that's the case then why do you insist that there is no other interpretation possible?
mfbukowski Posted February 10, 2020 Posted February 10, 2020 53 minutes ago, Sunslight said: I am not an arbiter. I'm just saying that if one is trying to read into the story the younger brother getting a lesser glory than the other brother perhaps he or she has completely missed the principle Christ is teaching here. Right there. So if you are not the Arbiter, why do you insist on your interpretation to the exclusion of the others?
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