justAskin Posted May 1, 2019 Posted May 1, 2019 Ok this one is a tough one. My parents were sealed life went on and had a family. My mother passed away 6 years ago, and my dad remarried 4 years ago. He was talking to us (his kids) and was going to move out and get a divorce. Before he started the process he passed away 1 month ago. His widow spouse was not active in the church and is now saying she would like to be sealed to our father. Can she be sealed to our father still?
Calm Posted May 1, 2019 Posted May 1, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, justAskin said: Ok this one is a tough one. My parents were sealed life went on and had a family. My mother passed away 6 years ago, and my dad remarried 4 years ago. He was talking to us (his kids) and was going to move out and get a divorce. Before he started the process he passed away 1 month ago. His widow spouse was not active in the church and is now saying she would like to be sealed to our father. Can she be sealed to our father still? Yes (since she is closest kin now even if his intent was to divorce, it is unlikely others' desires will outweigh hers unless you know of something that prevents her from getting her temple recommend) with conditions. This does not affect the sealing of your parents at all. I give the below information based on our current understanding. My personal belief is given we are talking about perfect people in perfect relationships that last for eternity, what we know now may be a pale reflection of what is actually to come. God allows us to see this much to motivate us to strive to improve ourselves and our relationships. I don't believe we can come close to understanding what our sealed relationships actually mean, so what is below is really more about how the paperwork is done (to keep track of our efforts as we mortals don't have access to heavenly records yet) and what the sealing really is will be something we come to learn after death and possibly quite sometime after that. She can have the sealing take place a year after he dies iirc if she reactivates and gets a temple recommend herself. If she does not qualify for a temple recommend while living, there is still a good chance (especially if she leaves instructions) she will be sealed after she dies to your father and any other men she was married to while living. It is standard practice now to turn all known marriages of both men and women into sealings once all parties involved are dead. This ensures those who desire it have the opportunity while those who don't desire to be sealed can reject it...as far as we know without penalty. This does not mean your father will be forced to accept the sealing to her if he does not desire it. It has to be both confirmed by God (Holy Ghost) and by all participants. Your father will be able to veto it if he so desires. I would assume the Holy Ghost, if he does more than verify that both are worthy, would not confirm the sealing if one or both of the parties were unwilling. And I don't see how a perfect person would want to be married to someone who didn't want to marry them as well. If they were willing to force someone, they wouldn't be qualified for exaltation and that would make the sealing invalid. Edited May 1, 2019 by Calm 2
Jane_Doe Posted May 1, 2019 Posted May 1, 2019 I'm going to start with really important big-picture stuff here, and then I'll address your specific question. Big picture: --Remember, a person getting seal to another does NOT mean that they must be together in the eternities. Honoring a sealing is a personal choice: you and that person choose to be together. -- It is also dependent on all individuals fully embracing Christ in the eternities: surrendering their sins, walking with Him, and becoming entirely like Him. So many of the faults that seem to define us in this brief mortal life will just be gone. So a sealed relationship in the eternities is not copy-paste of what people are like today. -- In addition to everyone's character's now being like Christ (which is a complete overhaul), everyone will also be physically perfect and fit. Great grandpa is no longer this old dude you need to yell at to be heard, but an incredibly fit man to chase you around the yard. Again, a sealed relationship in the eternities is not copy-paste of what people are like today. Now on to your specific case: your father and "Sue" were married when he passed away. Therefore, Sue does have the right to seek a sealing with him. Having the sealing done will give Sue and him the *option* of being together-- they must both choose to honor their relationship and both fully embrace Christ. If in the eternities they don't want to be together, then having a sealing done doesn't force them to be together. And again, Sue and your father must both fully embrace Christ. 4
Calm Posted May 1, 2019 Posted May 1, 2019 (edited) Looked for the Family History/Templework manual to provide the official policy, but looks like that is all on familysearch now, so the link wouldn't work unless you are registered. Please let me know if you want it. Since Jane and I have both explain it the same way, you may find that enough. Edited May 1, 2019 by Calm
justAskin Posted May 1, 2019 Author Posted May 1, 2019 Thank you for your answers. The understanding of how it'll all work out in the end is a very interesting topic. "It is standard practice now to turn all known marriages of both men and women into sealings once all parties involved are dead. " I was unaware of it being standard practice that once passed away all relationships are sealed together. "she will be sealed after she dies to your father and any other men she was married to while living" Also, this is news to me that women can be sealed to more than one man. I've never heard this part before.
Jane_Doe Posted May 1, 2019 Posted May 1, 2019 6 minutes ago, justAskin said: Thank you for your answers. The understanding of how it'll all work out in the end is a very interesting topic. "It is standard practice now to turn all known marriages of both men and women into sealings once all parties involved are dead. " I was unaware of it being standard practice that once passed away all relationships are sealed together. "she will be sealed after she dies to your father and any other men she was married to while living" Also, this is news to me that women can be sealed to more than one man. I've never heard this part before. A sealing is a opportunity for individuals to be together (either spouses or parents/child). Hence all sealings are performed, hoping that those people will embrace the Gospel. Just like we do baptisms for all individuals. It is a fact that not all people will embrace the Gospel, but we still hope and do our part. 1
Calm Posted May 2, 2019 Posted May 2, 2019 (edited) Quote Also, this is news to me that women can be sealed to more than one man. I've never heard this part before. It now takes place for all women after death as it can for all men (living or dead). This makes sense even if one believes women will only have one husband in the next life as in most cases of proxy work, we cannot know the desires of the woman of which husband she might choose.**** Language stating women or God---can't remember the phrasing---will choose which one is her eternal husband has been removed from Handbook 1 (early 2000's iirc, though all sealings performed after death has been going on for quite a bit longer). There are also reports of living women being granted exceptions to not cancel first sealings when desiring a second one. This exception is usually granted for young widows who desire to remarry, though I have heard but can't confirm of one which occurred in a divorce, I am guessing because children were involved who didn't want the sealing canceled even if it doesn't affect their relationship with either parent, but only the husband wife relationship (something that makes me think sealings are more than we understand if a parent sealing can stay intact even in the removal of a marriage sealing). The woman or couple need to talk to their bishop, who may not be aware of the possibility (I don't believe it is in the main handbook at this time, knowledge of it appears to be by word of mouth, I know a few bishops who have participated in the process), who then may discuss it with the stake president and an appeal is sent to the First Presidency (I have been told by a bishop there are some generic forms for requests in the handbook; either that or possibly a specific one relating to sealings may be available). Now this may just be putting off requiring the woman to choose to the next life or it could mean sealings are more expansive than we used to think. ****I am personally open to the idea that if men can have multiple sealings confirmed by God as we are taught, women will be to as well as men and women are not that different in ability to love (women are capable of loving more than one man at a time as are men....the problem comes in when exclusiveness is desired because mortals have a hard time balancing and sharing resources). As yet, there is no doctrine explaining the purpose of multiple sealings save for increase of posterity for men, which seems strange to limit a eternal blessing based solely on biology when sealings might be used to add children through adoption or shared parenthood (it doesn't make sense to me to have what amounts to an eternal competition for who gets the most kids especially when we will all be adults together). Perfect people with eternity to fill would not have the mortal difficulties of jealousy or limited time and resources to spend on spouses. I am also opened to the idea each will be paired off with only one other, one man and one woman. At this point and time, from the standpoint of reason, I don't think we have a clue of the possibilities and instead need to take it on faith our eternal family is God's in the most important way and all else will be wonderful based on that whatever it is. Edited May 2, 2019 by Calm
Tacenda Posted May 2, 2019 Posted May 2, 2019 11 minutes ago, Calm said: It now takes place for all women after death as it can for all men (living or dead). This makes sense even if one believes women will only have one husband in the next life as in most cases of proxy work, we cannot know the desires of the woman on which husband she might choose.**** Language stating women or God---can't remember the phrasing---will choose which one is her eternal has been removed from Handbook 1 (early 2000's iirc, though all sealings performed after death has been going on for quite a bit longer). There are also reports of living women being granted exceptions to not cancel first sealings when desiring a second one. This exception is usually granted for young widows who desire to remarry. The woman or couple need to talk to their bishop, who may not be aware of the possibility (I don't believe it is in the main handbook at this time, knowledge of it appears to be by word of mouth, I know a few bishops who have participated in the process), who then may discuss it with the stake president and an appeal is sent to the First Presidency (I have been told by a bishop there are some generic forms for requests in the handbook; either that or possibly a specific one relating to sealings may be available). Now this may just be putting off requiring the woman to choose to the next life or it could mean sealings are more expansive than we used to think. ****I am personally open to the idea that if men can have multiple sealings confirmed by God as we are taught, women will be to as well as men and women are not that different in ability to love (women are capable of loving more than one man at a time as are men....the problem comes in when exclusiveness is desired because mortals have a hard time balancing and sharing resources). As yet, there is no doctrine explaining the purpose of multiple sealings save for increase of posterity for men, which seems strange to limit a eternal blessing based solely on biology when sealings might be used to add children through adoption or shared parenthood (it doesn't make sense to me to have what amounts to an eternal competition for who gets the most kids especially when we will all be adults together). Perfect people with eternity to fill would not have the mortal difficulties of jealousy or limited time and resources to spend on spouses. I am also opened to the idea each will be paired off with only one other, one man and one woman. At this point and time, from the standpoint of reason, I don't think we have a clue of the possibilities and instead need to take it on faith our eternal family is God's in the most important way and all else will be wonderful based on that whatever it is. Sounds a bit like Jesus Christ said, no marriages actually, just everyone living around each other. I can't imagine there will be men sealed to two or more wives and then their wives being sealed to two or more men and so forth, might as well believe what Jesus said in the first place.
Calm Posted May 2, 2019 Posted May 2, 2019 (edited) I personally love the idea of endless family relationships (I love family) and if we have endless time and are perfect, if there are those who want to share that joy with more than one person, why not? I hate the idea of being locked into mortal standards and understanding for an eternity. How boring and useless. That would be like being doomed to only wear my hair short or never wear a hat because the shape of my head makes anything else look weird. Or never to be able to get the equivalent of that physics degree or not have more children than the two I managed. Never be able to climb those mountains or parachute or hang glide because of the fear of heights I picked up in my 20s. Eternity is for experiencing all those dreams and much, much more including being able to have relationships with others without the conflict, guessing at feelings and desires, mismatched goals and needs and dreams, etc. etc. Edited May 2, 2019 by Calm
The Nehor Posted May 2, 2019 Posted May 2, 2019 The biggest barrier is that if she is not currently active it is unlikely she will be able to get a recommend at all. 1
Robert F. Smith Posted May 2, 2019 Posted May 2, 2019 7 hours ago, The Nehor said: The biggest barrier is that if she is not currently active it is unlikely she will be able to get a recommend at all. And is it worth it to her to pay a full tithe for at least a year?
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