SettingDogStar Posted November 3, 2018 Posted November 3, 2018 So I was digging around in some older church documents I ran across some random odd ball quotes from various church publications. This was during the Brigham Young era which we all know was a time where doctrinal statements were not always as controlled as they are now. To me there's a lot to be learned from that era and a lot of really powerful sermons and amazing doctrine that was preached over the pulpit. However I wanted to submit a couple of these random quotes I found for your input. Most of them are from the Deseret Almanac written by William Phelps and just one from Brigham Young which may or may not be related. The Doctrine that the Father was once a man that dwelt was established by Joseph Smith and it would seem there was some mention of the Planet where God came from later. What are your thoughts? Quote OUR FATHER IN THE HEAVENS. . . . Then our Father in his youth, Came from Teman full of truth . . . (Deseret Almanac, 1852, PHILOSOPHY OF THE HEAVENS. . . . Every world “rolls on its wings,” and is controlled by a God . . . —and, as quick as sight or thought, a look, a sign, or a hint to God in Kolob, Teman, or any glorified kingdom, brings assistance, that earth and hell cannot demonstrate. (Deseret Almanac, 1852, 37) In his mansion with my mother As I sat upon her knee!— Sacred records kept in “Teman,” Till the flesh has conquered sin,— By the Priesthood, faith and virtue. Then I’ll know them all again! (Deseret Almanac, 1854, Our former religious traditions has taught us that our Father in heaven has no tabernacle, that his center is everywhere and his circumference nowhere. Yet we read that “God came from Teman, and the Holy One from Mount Paran.” . . . The idea that the Lord our God is not a personage of tabernacle is entirely a mistaken notion. He was once a man. (9:286) Brigham Young 2
jpv Posted November 3, 2018 Posted November 3, 2018 Habakkuk 3:3 King James Version (KJV) God came from Teman, and the Holy One from mount Paran. Selah. His glory covered the heavens, and the earth was full of his praise. 3
SettingDogStar Posted November 3, 2018 Author Posted November 3, 2018 2 hours ago, jpv said: Habakkuk 3:3 King James Version (KJV) God came from Teman, and the Holy One from mount Paran. Selah. His glory covered the heavens, and the earth was full of his praise. Yeah I noticed that but it seems that a couple of early church leaders took that to beyond perhaps what the scripture was intended! Haha though it is an intriguing thought.
JAHS Posted November 4, 2018 Posted November 4, 2018 "Now when Job's three friends heard of all this evil that was come upon him, they came every one from his own place; Eliphaz the Temanite, and Bildad the Shuhite, and Zophar the Naamathite: for they had made an appointment together to come to mourn with him and to comfort him." (Job 2: 11) Teman was a town in the southern part of Edom (VOICE OF ISRAEL'S PROPHETS, by Sidney B. Sperry) Not sure why that Habakkuk scripture says that God came from there 2
JLHPROF Posted November 4, 2018 Posted November 4, 2018 10 hours ago, SettingDogStar said: So I was digging around in some older church documents I ran across some random odd ball quotes from various church publications. This was during the Brigham Young era which we all know was a time where doctrinal statements were not always as controlled as they are now. To me there's a lot to be learned from that era and a lot of really powerful sermons and amazing doctrine that was preached over the pulpit. However I wanted to submit a couple of these random quotes I found for your input. Most of them are from the Deseret Almanac written by William Phelps and just one from Brigham Young which may or may not be related. The Doctrine that the Father was once a man that dwelt was established by Joseph Smith and it would seem there was some mention of the Planet where God came from later. What are your thoughts? According to a quick google https://www.gotquestions.org/amp/God-came-from-Teman.html It's a poetic reference to the east and sunrise, not a theological statement on God's origin. Except perhaps as a it would relate to the second coming. Which is appropriate since the first and third Deseret Almanac quotes are also poems not a teaching of early leaders. The final almanac reference does reference God as coming from Teman as an exalted kingdom, but taken in context this clearly again is a reference to God/light/the sun coming from the east, as described above. The Brigham Young statement in the JoD is being used to show God has a physical location and a body, as opposed to the creeds. It is not used as another Kolob. Reading all your snipped quotes in context I think you are reading into these statements. I see no evidence any early leader considered Teman another Kolob or the revealed name of an exalted world. 2
jpv Posted November 4, 2018 Posted November 4, 2018 13 hours ago, SettingDogStar said: To me there's a lot to be learned from that era and a lot of really powerful sermons and amazing doctrine that was preached over the pulpit. I think the 'PROF and I will definitely agree with you on this, however. 1
CV75 Posted November 4, 2018 Posted November 4, 2018 (edited) 19 hours ago, SettingDogStar said: So I was digging around in some older church documents I ran across some random odd ball quotes from various church publications. This was during the Brigham Young era which we all know was a time where doctrinal statements were not always as controlled as they are now. To me there's a lot to be learned from that era and a lot of really powerful sermons and amazing doctrine that was preached over the pulpit. However I wanted to submit a couple of these random quotes I found for your input. Most of them are from the Deseret Almanac written by William Phelps and just one from Brigham Young which may or may not be related. The Doctrine that the Father was once a man that dwelt was established by Joseph Smith and it would seem there was some mention of the Planet where God came from later. What are your thoughts? "Teman" is Biblical (Habakkuk 3:3): "God came from Teman, and the Holy One from mount Paran. Selah. His glory covered the heavens, and the earth was full of his praise." ETA: Mount Paran is Mount Sinai, where the Lord spoke to Moses, and where Moses saw Him, and is located on the border of Edom (also known as Teman). Edited November 4, 2018 by CV75 1
SettingDogStar Posted November 4, 2018 Author Posted November 4, 2018 9 hours ago, JLHPROF said: According to a quick google https://www.gotquestions.org/amp/God-came-from-Teman.html It's a poetic reference to the east and sunrise, not a theological statement on God's origin. Except perhaps as a it would relate to the second coming. Which is appropriate since the first and third Deseret Almanac quotes are also poems not a teaching of early leaders. The final almanac reference does reference God as coming from Teman as an exalted kingdom, but taken in context this clearly again is a reference to God/light/the sun coming from the east, as described above. The Brigham Young statement in the JoD is being used to show God has a physical location and a body, as opposed to the creeds. It is not used as another Kolob. Reading all your snipped quotes in context I think you are reading into these statements. I see no evidence any early leader considered Teman another Kolob or the revealed name of an exalted world. Thanks for that. I couldn’t find a copy of Deseret Almanac to check what the context of the poems. I was hoping they’d be in church archives but I couldn’t find them. I wouldn’t have been surprised if they had actually proposed that that was what the planet was called but alas, maybe I got to excited haha
Gray Posted November 4, 2018 Posted November 4, 2018 (edited) 13 hours ago, JAHS said: "Now when Job's three friends heard of all this evil that was come upon him, they came every one from his own place; Eliphaz the Temanite, and Bildad the Shuhite, and Zophar the Naamathite: for they had made an appointment together to come to mourn with him and to comfort him." (Job 2: 11) Teman was a town in the southern part of Edom (VOICE OF ISRAEL'S PROPHETS, by Sidney B. Sperry) Not sure why that Habakkuk scripture says that God came from there Edom is thought to be the place where Yahweh was first worshiped, as a god of storms or war. The Israelites picked up him from the Edomites. Edited November 4, 2018 by Gray 1
mfbukowski Posted November 4, 2018 Posted November 4, 2018 (edited) 19 hours ago, SettingDogStar said: Yeah I noticed that but it seems that a couple of early church leaders took that to beyond perhaps what the scripture was intended! Haha though it is an intriguing thought. Listen carefully to the presentation of the endowment. It's all there. Not Teman but the rest How did Father gain his knowledge? Think it through. Edited November 4, 2018 by mfbukowski 2
JLHPROF Posted November 4, 2018 Posted November 4, 2018 3 hours ago, SettingDogStar said: Thanks for that. I couldn’t find a copy of Deseret Almanac to check what the context of the poems. I was hoping they’d be in church archives but I couldn’t find them. I wouldn’t have been surprised if they had actually proposed that that was what the planet was called but alas, maybe I got to excited haha https://archive.org/details/deseretalmanacfo01phel/page/n1 1
SettingDogStar Posted November 5, 2018 Author Posted November 5, 2018 23 hours ago, mfbukowski said: Listen carefully to the presentation of the endowment. It's all there. Not Teman but the rest How did Father gain his knowledge? Think it through. Well, and perhaps this is controversial to some, I do really believe that God (Elohim that is) really did dwell on an earth like we did and wether that was as an Adam, a Savior, or of no one is particular I very much agree with Joseph Smith on the concept.
mfbukowski Posted November 5, 2018 Posted November 5, 2018 5 hours ago, SettingDogStar said: Well, and perhaps this is controversial to some, I do really believe that God (Elohim that is) really did dwell on an earth like we did and wether that was as an Adam, a Savior, or of no one is particular I very much agree with Joseph Smith on the concept. That seems consistent with the temple presentation, so I am not sure why anyone would have a problem with it.
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