The Catholic scandal and the Church

[Tacenda]

On 8/29/2018 at 8:27 AM, Walden said:

The instances of abuse in the LDS church when compared to the current crisis within the Catholic church is comparing apples and oranges, or rather, apples and gorillas. What the Catholic church leadership has practiced over decades is a systematic, orchestrated, calculated global program of shifting child abusers from one parish to the next in a deliberate attempt to hide those abusers from the law and the consequences of their actions.

There are predators within every population, be it Mormon, Catholic, Buddhist, atheist, etc. The difference in the Catholic church is that a system was implemented globally to hide these predators from legal prosecution and public scrutiny. This was not a lone decision of some rogue bishops in the Catholic church; the same stories and the same practices have been reported, and in many cases confirmed, around the world and on every continent, and throughout, the Catholic playbook is the same....move the predator priest, contain and bury the story/facts, and when he offends again, move him again or urge him into retirement. To deny that the highest positions of leadership in the Catholic church were not in on this, when considering the scope and depth of this conspiracy, is naive at best.

Sure, the LDS church has predators in it ranks, but I have never seen any evidence of a calculated and orchestrated program to shift predator leaders from one area to the next.

I feel badly for my devoutly Catholic friends and family and the majority of honest and diligent priests within the Catholic church, but I have no remorse for the church leadership that has perpetuated this evil around the world over may decades.

After listening to this lawyer on this podcast it sounds like the church has been worse. It protects the ability of the perpetrators to receive forgiveness. It was a pattern in the church for years. And was more of an advocate for them verses the abuse victim. And the instructions to circumvent calling 911 and calling the helpline given to every bishop which then goes to church lawyers to give them a heads up. In the podcast it mentions that even in states that have a law that doesn't recognize clergy-penitent privilege the church has told bishops to ignore the law and not call the police. Which is astounding since the church's article of faith specifies obeying the law. According to this lawyer on the podcast, in a few years the church will be like the current Catholic situation. He brings up the Curtis case as an example of the pattern in the past. Since Curtis had been ex'd and later baptized with his priesthood restored and then put in callings with children. So the church is protecting the right of the member in need of forgiveness before they defend the child by calling police, so the church lies when they say they care about children not getting abused. But this is all what this lawyer is saying is true or has been true. So the church has a past, and it's not pretty. 

https://www.athoughtfulfaith.org. 

Edited September 3, 2018 by Tacenda

[Calm]

Tim Kosnoff, the lawyer for Jeremiah Scott....I find it highly unlikely his analysis is even attempted to be objective, considering he makes his money based in part on how bad he can make the Church look and I think it likely he would tend to look at the Church in a rather rigid, one dimensional way given what I have heard him say.

I wouldn't want to solely depend on Church lawyers' appraisal either, I would go to independent observers who are experts in organizational behaviour as well as ecclesiastical abuse and protections against them and hope they would seek out abusers and abused for input on how things can change to promote 

[mrmarklin]

To put this a little perspective, I’m sure that as someone is caught he goes into full repentance mode. He confesses his sins, does some form of penance and promises never to do that particular sin again. The sinner is properly remorseful and maybe even withdraws for a while from normal duties.

But the reality is that he is repentant. He can be given another chance because God has forgiven him and certainly a change of scenery can do the repentant good, because he is away from his immediate temptations. 

This is the logic behind reassignment. Of course it is flawed because the sinner should have been referred to authorities if a crime had been committed.  The Catholic Church is so dominant in many societies, that it truly believes that the problem is “handled “ without recourse to secular authority  

I think the LDS Church has been burned by this a little by too easy forgiveness of members. I know of one case. But I think hierarchy is more aware now that some proclivities never really go away despite repentance. So safeguards have been instituted. Bishops and high leaders are always excommunicated so that mitigates any problem with them. 

[Teancum]

On 8/30/2018 at 10:36 PM, USU78 said:

B'bye

I won't miss you.