california boy Posted June 26, 2018 Posted June 26, 2018 (edited) delete Edited June 26, 2018 by california boy
california boy Posted June 26, 2018 Posted June 26, 2018 32 minutes ago, pogi said: You asked if that makes sense - yes and no. I get that communities like to have special activities and interest groups, but 1) I don't get why its okay for a minority community to have those exclusive groups but that it is not okay for a majority community to have those same exclusive groups; 2) it is also a pet-peeve of mine when on one hand people demand blindness in regards to color, sexual orientation, etc., insisting that we all be one people, yet on the other hand they form exclusive groups based on color, sexual orientation, etc. I am less opposed to the idea of special interest groups, and more annoyed at the double standard of being blind to differences while at the same time forming exclusive communities based on those differences. If black pride is okay, so is white pride. I recognize that white-pride is associated with hate groups, but it doesn't need to be. There is nothing wrong with taking pride in your white heritage, just as there is nothing wrong with taking pride in your black heritage. On the same note, if there is nothing wrong with gay choirs, then there should be nothing wrong with heterosexual choirs. My point is that people can't have it both ways - we can't be blind and have exclusive communities based on race/sexual orientation/religion. My second point is that if it is okay for a minority community, it needs to be okay for a majority community - THAT is equality! Is this some kind of JOKE? We are talking about the Mormon Tabernacle Choir. Is the church choir going to be ok with integrating Catholics, Baptists, Lutherans etc? What the Mormons are allowed to have a choir but heaven forbid if the gay community has one. This says so much about how Mormon think.
pogi Posted June 26, 2018 Posted June 26, 2018 17 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said: I hear the point you are making but I think it's different for minority groups or groups that have traditionally been under represented in power structures. Right, it is "different" for minority groups. That is the irony of it all, if equality is what they really want - they shouldn't want to be different. They shouldn't demand special privilege, they should demand equal privilege. 23 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said: I understand your point, but I'm not bothered by minority groups banding together to help themselves thrive amongst the other majority groups. I am bothered by majority groups that band together at the expense of the minority. The problem with this is that it will always and forever create an us vs. them mentality. 'The minority against the majority' instead of 'the minority apart of the majority.' It fosters inequality and divisiveness, it fosters competition instead of cooperation. One group will always feel threatened by the other group with this mentality. Until the common interest of minority an majority groups is equality for all, racism and bigotry will thrive in these special interest groups seeking special privileges above and beyond other groups. Nothing needs to be at the expense of the other group. Both groups can thrive when they are equally concerned about the well-being of the other group. It is hard to be concerned about the other group when all they seem to be concerned about is themselves, however. 1
pogi Posted June 26, 2018 Posted June 26, 2018 (edited) 35 minutes ago, california boy said: Is this some kind of JOKE? We are talking about the Mormon Tabernacle Choir. Is the church choir going to be ok with integrating Catholics, Baptists, Lutherans etc? What the Mormons are allowed to have a choir but heaven forbid if the gay community has one. This says so much about how Mormon think. Like I said, I am really less concerned about special interest groups, and more annoyed at the double standard. I will admit, a choir based on s-xual orientation seems weird to me, unless all s-xually oriented choirs are acceptable in society. A heterosexual choir would be ridiculed. If you want a s-xual oriented choir - great! My point is that no one in favor of a gay choir should be upset at other interest groups of different s-xual orientations, in that case. That is inequality. You canot compare the MoTab to a gay choir. Apples and oranges. The MoTab would not be opposed to Caholic, Baptis, and Lutheran choirs. They respect the rights and equal privileges of other religious interest groups to form their own exclusive choirs. Would a gay choir (and society at large) respect the rights of other choirs based on other s-xual orientations? Probably not. THAT is the difference. Compare apples to apples and you will see the inequality I am talking about. When the common interest is simply gay s-xual orientation, why should that be special or privileged over any other s-xual orientation? Apparently, you cannot say "s-xual" too much or it wont let you post! Edited June 26, 2018 by pogi
Hestia Posted June 26, 2018 Posted June 26, 2018 This thread has been moved to the social hall because the OP requested that there be no debate. So, stop debating.
USU78 Posted June 27, 2018 Posted June 27, 2018 Cynical moi figures that this very generous gesture will lead to precisely no good will being returned to the Church. 1
The Nehor Posted June 27, 2018 Posted June 27, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, USU78 said: Cynical moi figures that this very generous gesture will lead to precisely no good will being returned to the Church. If it were exclusively or even primarily for PR we should not be doing it in any case. Wanting the world to love us is a fool's dream and those who strive for it most desperately tend to become idolaters of the group they are trying to win favor with. Getting a little good will here and there is a good thing and happens intentionally or not. Expecting it is dangerous. Edited June 27, 2018 by The Nehor
Jeanne Posted June 27, 2018 Posted June 27, 2018 (edited) Can I pull a Nehor comment??😋 Edited June 27, 2018 by Jeanne
pogi Posted June 27, 2018 Posted June 27, 2018 5 minutes ago, Jeanne said: Can I pull a Nehor comment??😋 Sure
Hestia Posted June 27, 2018 Posted June 27, 2018 Not sure what is confusing about "stop debating", but those who were struggling with the concept have been banned from the thread and their posts removed.
Jeanne Posted June 27, 2018 Posted June 27, 2018 32 minutes ago, pogi said: Sure Sorry...I could not add more to my post ..my computer just stopped on me. In any case, in fear of being banned again..I will refrain and let Nehor comment his funnies himself.
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