mfbukowski Posted June 22, 2018 Posted June 22, 2018 9 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said: In addition, we've been told that those serving in the office of high priest are not to have regular ministering assignments, so all that goes to the elders quorum. I have not heard THAT one! When did that come out? (eager anticipation?!?)
mfbukowski Posted June 22, 2018 Posted June 22, 2018 8 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said: Meaning bishop, his counsellors, high councillors, and stake presidency. The idea is that they have significant ministering built into their callings. In the case of our high council, we've assigned a brother to each elders quorum and another one to each bishopric in the stake. They are supposed to be attending every meeting both to help train but also to serve wherever/however needed. We call it 'ministering to the ministers'. Yep. Most of our HC is made of bishops not serving in that calling, training new bishops in reality. And of course EQ presidents plus other assignments working with stake organization leaders, organizing family history etc. Lotsa ministry!
HappyJackWagon Posted June 22, 2018 Posted June 22, 2018 9 hours ago, mfbukowski said: It went down exactly 3 callings while encouraging members to be more rigorous in their Ministry efforts and in their follow-up interviews, which had not really been happening under the home teaching program. In my opinion the workload increase was more than the three callings worth of work "lost". And now there are fewer organizations to take on duties like Ward clean up, organizing word activities, etc. Elders now have to administer family history callings and take care of widows which are jobs to wish they were never assigned before, organize Temple trips etcetera. So actually there's an increased workload being handled by fewer people. I wouldn't worry about having less work to do. In our ward they released the existing HP Group leadership (4), committee chairmen (3), 2 HT route supervisors and 4 HPG teachers (4). They also released the EQP (4), 1 HT route specialist and 4 teachers. That is a total of 26 men released from callings. To date they called an EQ Presidency (3) and 2 teachers for a total of 5 men in new callings. That was a reduction of 21 males in callings in my ward. My ward is extremely active (generally around 75%). 10-11 of those men received co-teaching assignments of some sort (primary mostly). The rest (10-11) still have no calling at all. Almost 3 months later we have significant church calling unemployment. But I don't know that it has resulted in greater inactivity rates. At least not yet. But the question posed earlier about activity levels linked to a person feeling like they make a meaningful contribution is a good one.
mfbukowski Posted June 22, 2018 Posted June 22, 2018 9 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said: In our ward they released the existing HP Group leadership (4), committee chairmen (3), 2 HT route supervisors and 4 HPG teachers (4). They also released the EQP (4), 1 HT route specialist and 4 teachers. That is a total of 26 men released from callings. To date they called an EQ Presidency (3) and 2 teachers for a total of 5 men in new callings. That was a reduction of 21 males in callings in my ward. My ward is extremely active (generally around 75%). 10-11 of those men received co-teaching assignments of some sort (primary mostly). The rest (10-11) still have no calling at all. Almost 3 months later we have significant church calling unemployment. But I don't know that it has resulted in greater inactivity rates. At least not yet. But the question posed earlier about activity levels linked to a person feeling like they make a meaningful contribution is a good one. Well then they should be increasing their Ministry efforts. And I guess your elders Quorum president hasn't learned how to delegate yet., or more likely how many guys he's going to need to help him in committees Etc. 1
HappyJackWagon Posted June 22, 2018 Posted June 22, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: Well then they should be increasing their Ministry efforts. And I guess your elders Quorum president hasn't learned how to delegate yet., or more likely how many guys he's going to need to help him in committees Etc. agreed. They plan on getting to making ministry assignments by September. Regardless, the impact on callings is greater than "exactly 3" Edited June 22, 2018 by HappyJackWagon
ksfisher Posted June 22, 2018 Posted June 22, 2018 8 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said: Meaning bishop, his counsellors, high councillors, and stake presidency. The idea is that they have significant ministering built into their callings. In the case of our high council, we've assigned a brother to each elders quorum and another one to each bishopric in the stake. They are supposed to be attending every meeting both to help train but also to serve wherever/however needed. We call it 'ministering to the ministers'. https://www.lds.org/mycalling/ministering-additional-faq?lang=eng Ministering 8. How does ministering apply to the members of the high priests quorum? Under the direction of their bishop, the presiding high priest in the ward, the members of the high priests quorum and their families have ministering brothers and sisters assigned to them by their elders quorum and Relief Society. Because stake presidencies and bishoprics are responsible for all members of the stake or ward, these brethren are not generally assigned as ministering brothers to specific individuals or families. High councilors and functioning patriarchs may be assigned, based on local circumstances, as determined by the stake president. If they are assigned, it would be by their elders quorum president under the direction of the bishop of their wards. In addition to other important responsibilities such as presiding high priest and common judge in Israel, bishops have a specific responsibility, along with their counselors, to care for the youth. Doctrine and Covenants 107:15 reads, “The bishopric is the presidency of this [the Aaronic] priesthood, and holds the keys or authority of the same.” Handbook 1, 2.2, states, “Members of the bishopric watch over and nurture young men and young women in the ward.” Similarly, the stake president, as the presiding high priest of the stake, is “the primary spiritual leader in the stake” (Handbook 1, 1.1.1) and “presides over the work of salvation” (Handbook 1, 1.1.2). 1
Regor Posted June 23, 2018 Posted June 23, 2018 21 hours ago, mfbukowski said: It went down exactly 3 callings while encouraging members to be more rigorous in their Ministry efforts and in their follow-up interviews, which had not really been happening under the home teaching program. In my opinion the workload increase was more than the three callings worth of work "lost". And now there are fewer organizations to take on duties like Ward clean up, organizing word activities, etc. Elders now have to administer family history callings and take care of widows which are jobs to wish they were never assigned before, organize Temple trips etcetera. So actually there's an increased workload being handled by fewer people. I wouldn't worry about having less work to do. But there will be a lack of leadership opportunities.
mfbukowski Posted June 23, 2018 Posted June 23, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Regor said: But there will be a lack of leadership opportunities. Leadership opportunities? You looking for a job here? The best way I know to be in leadership is to not want it. You really want 8 or 9 hour Sunday's? Getting calls at 3 a.m. to go watch someone die is not that much fun. Getting flashed by a schizophrenic while you visit him with a general Authority is not all that pleasant either and neither is sitting on the stand watching people sleep, especially when you are the speaker. I'll trade you a few of those for going to Scout camp anytime. Edited June 23, 2018 by mfbukowski 1
mfbukowski Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 On 6/22/2018 at 9:29 AM, ksfisher said: https://www.lds.org/mycalling/ministering-additional-faq?lang=eng Ministering 8. How does ministering apply to the members of the high priests quorum? Under the direction of their bishop, the presiding high priest in the ward, the members of the high priests quorum and their families have ministering brothers and sisters assigned to them by their elders quorum and Relief Society. Because stake presidencies and bishoprics are responsible for all members of the stake or ward, these brethren are not generally assigned as ministering brothers to specific individuals or families. High councilors and functioning patriarchs may be assigned, based on local circumstances, as determined by the stake president. If they are assigned, it would be by their elders quorum president under the direction of the bishop of their wards. In addition to other important responsibilities such as presiding high priest and common judge in Israel, bishops have a specific responsibility, along with their counselors, to care for the youth. Doctrine and Covenants 107:15 reads, “The bishopric is the presidency of this [the Aaronic] priesthood, and holds the keys or authority of the same.” Handbook 1, 2.2, states, “Members of the bishopric watch over and nurture young men and young women in the ward.” Similarly, the stake president, as the presiding high priest of the stake, is “the primary spiritual leader in the stake” (Handbook 1, 1.1.1) and “presides over the work of salvation” (Handbook 1, 1.1.2). Thanks- that's not quite what was said before regarding High Council, but a good reference!
Regor Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 On 6/23/2018 at 12:42 AM, mfbukowski said: Leadership opportunities? You looking for a job here? The best way I know to be in leadership is to not want it. You really want 8 or 9 hour Sunday's? Getting calls at 3 a.m. to go watch someone die is not that much fun. Getting flashed by a schizophrenic while you visit him with a general Authority is not all that pleasant either and neither is sitting on the stand watching people sleep, especially when you are the speaker. I'll trade you a few of those for going to Scout camp anytime. That's not the Sunday school response. When we are called to leadership responsibility isn't it a spiritual growth opportunity with eternal blessings? Scouts is not just scout camp, although, that is 5 vacation days used that could have been with the family. I didn't see other leaders giving up 5 vacation days from work in their callings. Let's do the math, 24 hours away from home at scout camp per day X 6 days = 144 hrs. Monthly camping events 24 Hrs. X 12 = 288 Hrs. Weekly Scout meetings = 1.5 Hrs. X 52 weeks = 78 Hrs . For just those Scout events the total is (144+288+78) = 510 Hrs. Compare that to your 9 Hour Sundays X 52 weeks = 468 Hrs. Scouting Hours are higher. Scout leaders don't get up at 3 a. m but I have been up until past 3 am packing for campouts. Also, in addition to those 510 scout Hours. there is also Patrol Leader Council meetings, planning time, training both others and self, father son campout planning, friends of scouting, monthly scout committee meetings, hours of fundraising on Saturdays, and the 5 vacation days used. Also when the Stake goes on a week outing that's another 144 Hrs. When the wind blows at 70 mph. overturning tents and filling them with rain water, getting flashed by a schizophrenic sounds pretty funny compared to a wet and damp night sleeping, and dealing with restless boys. I have seen my father die, it was one of the most spiritual experiences in my life, when we said a prayer after his passing the spirit was so strong you could cut it with a knife. The big difference with scouts is the church members left scouting years ago and have not had respect for anyone doing it the way its supposed to be run. Ward leaders tend to get a level of respect from the majority of the members.
rongo Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 We are still without a Elders Quorum presidency in our ward (our stake is notoriously slow at filling callings. The old EQP and HPGL took five months). The interesting thing is that my family is moving up to Gilbert in mid-July. I notified the stake presidency and stake young women presidency in early May (SP for the need to release and recommend someone else, SYWP because I have gone the full week to girls camp every week since I have been a bishop in two wards in this stake. They rely on my for a lot of things, and I was the male leader on the canoe trip). I have been told that a replacement bishopric probably won't be in place when we move, because of the July vacation schedule for GAs (the application still hasn't been made). Not my circus, not my monkeys, any more . . . 2
HappyJackWagon Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 47 minutes ago, rongo said: We are still without a Elders Quorum presidency in our ward (our stake is notoriously slow at filling callings. The old EQP and HPGL took five months). The interesting thing is that my family is moving up to Gilbert in mid-July. I notified the stake presidency and stake young women presidency in early May (SP for the need to release and recommend someone else, SYWP because I have gone the full week to girls camp every week since I have been a bishop in two wards in this stake. They rely on my for a lot of things, and I was the male leader on the canoe trip). I have been told that a replacement bishopric probably won't be in place when we move, because of the July vacation schedule for GAs (the application still hasn't been made). Not my circus, not my monkeys, any more . . . This kind of stuff makes me cringe. It reflects poor organizational management and poor management has real consequences to people's lives
mfbukowski Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 2 hours ago, rongo said: We are still without a Elders Quorum presidency in our ward (our stake is notoriously slow at filling callings. The old EQP and HPGL took five months). The interesting thing is that my family is moving up to Gilbert in mid-July. I notified the stake presidency and stake young women presidency in early May (SP for the need to release and recommend someone else, SYWP because I have gone the full week to girls camp every week since I have been a bishop in two wards in this stake. They rely on my for a lot of things, and I was the male leader on the canoe trip). I have been told that a replacement bishopric probably won't be in place when we move, because of the July vacation schedule for GAs (the application still hasn't been made). Not my circus, not my monkeys, any more . . . Sounds to me like 1st Counselor becomes a bishop for a while I'm sure it will be an interesting transition for you. New Ward no calling -who is this guy?
mfbukowski Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 1 hour ago, HappyJackWagon said: This kind of stuff makes me cringe. It reflects poor organizational management and poor management has real consequences to people's lives Maybe someone's pay will get docked. They should be fired, clearly.
mfbukowski Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, Regor said: That's not the Sunday school response. When we are called to leadership responsibility isn't it a spiritual growth opportunity with eternal blessings? Scouts is not just scout camp, although, that is 5 vacation days used that could have been with the family. I didn't see other leaders giving up 5 vacation days from work in their callings. Let's do the math, 24 hours away from home at scout camp per day X 6 days = 144 hrs. Monthly camping events 24 Hrs. X 12 = 288 Hrs. Weekly Scout meetings = 1.5 Hrs. X 52 weeks = 78 Hrs . For just those Scout events the total is (144+288+78) = 510 Hrs. Compare that to your 9 Hour Sundays X 52 weeks = 468 Hrs. Scouting Hours are higher. Scout leaders don't get up at 3 a. m but I have been up until past 3 am packing for campouts. Also, in addition to those 510 scout Hours. there is also Patrol Leader Council meetings, planning time, training both others and self, father son campout planning, friends of scouting, monthly scout committee meetings, hours of fundraising on Saturdays, and the 5 vacation days used. Also when the Stake goes on a week outing that's another 144 Hrs. When the wind blows at 70 mph. overturning tents and filling them with rain water, getting flashed by a schizophrenic sounds pretty funny compared to a wet and damp night sleeping, and dealing with restless boys. I have seen my father die, it was one of the most spiritual experiences in my life, when we said a prayer after his passing the spirit was so strong you could cut it with a knife. The big difference with scouts is the church members left scouting years ago and have not had respect for anyone doing it the way its supposed to be run. Ward leaders tend to get a level of respect from the majority of the members. Well of course I wasn't counting preparation time either or time during the week, writing talks, prepping, or those fire sides that make for 12 hours Sundays. But if that's where you're at that's where you're at. Best wishes I hope you solve your problem. Attitude is everything and people pick up on that. Edited June 25, 2018 by mfbukowski
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