Migrations by Boat to America

[Rajah Manchou]

The Americas extend deep into the Pacific Ocean reaching as far as Guam. These islands across the entire Pacific are geographically part of America, by law.

"On November 3, 1986, Public Law 94-241, “approving the Covenant to Establish a Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands in Political Union with the United States of America”, (Section 506(c), took effect.  From that point on, the Northern Mariana Islands have been treated as part of the United States for the purposes of INA 301 (8 U.S.C. 1401) and INA308 (8 U.S.C. 1408).  (See 7 FAM 1120Acquisition of U.S. Nationality in U.S. Territories and Possessions.)"

American territories cover a much broader territory than what we are familiar with:

 

So let's look at the history of this "quarter of the Earth where there never had man been". Guam was first inhabited by an advanced civilization called the Chamorros, that migrated across the Pacific around 4000 to 5000 years ago. They departed from somewhere in East Asia in boats that resemble the houses still found in the region today. Those homes modeled after Austronesian boats match the description of Jaredite boats near perfectly: 

So, in a very literal sense. A Jaredite-like population sailed to "America" around the time of the tower. We don't know how far they went, but there is very old Austonesian DNA found in South America. And there is Native American DNA in the native Chamorros of Guam. I suppose it could be a coincidence, but these ancient people also populated lands called Rahma (Ramah), Lamainta (spelled Lamanite on some maps), Moron and Kamara (present day Comoros Islands).

I acknowledge that it could be a coincidence. But pretty much the entire Book of Mormon account can be explained if we take what 17th century writers knew about the New World that Columbus discovered in both the East and West Indies. Start in the east and move west. Follow the archaeological evidence that is available, and it all fits.

Edited January 20, 2018 by Rajah Manchou

[Robert F. Smith]

You always come up with such thought-provoking info, Rajah.  Thanks again.

However, that ""quarter of the Earth where there never had man been" (Ether 2:5) refers to crossing central Asia, long before the Jaredites arrive at the Pacific Ocean.  It is very likely meant to be hyperbole, i.e., a probable description of areas in which they found no inhabitants present.

[mfbukowski]

On 1/20/2018 at 12:04 AM, Rajah Manchou said:

The Americas extend deep into the Pacific Ocean reaching as far as Guam. These islands across the entire Pacific are geographically part of America, by law.

"On November 3, 1986, Public Law 94-241, “approving the Covenant to Establish a Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands in Political Union with the United States of America”, (Section 506(c), took effect.  From that point on, the Northern Mariana Islands have been treated as part of the United States for the purposes of INA 301 (8 U.S.C. 1401) and INA308 (8 U.S.C. 1408).  (See 7 FAM 1120Acquisition of U.S. Nationality in U.S. Territories and Possessions.)"

American territories cover a much broader territory than what we are familiar with:

 

So let's look at the history of this "quarter of the Earth where there never had man been". Guam was first inhabited by an advanced civilization called the Chamorros, that migrated across the Pacific around 4000 to 5000 years ago. They departed from somewhere in East Asia in boats that resemble the houses still found in the region today. Those homes modeled after Austronesian boats match the description of Jaredite boats near perfectly: 

So, in a very literal sense. A Jaredite-like population sailed to "America" around the time of the tower. We don't know how far they went, but there is very old Austonesian DNA found in South America. And there is Native American DNA in the native Chamorros of Guam. I suppose it could be a coincidence, but these ancient people also populated lands called Rahma (Ramah), Lamainta (spelled Lamanite on some maps), Moron and Kamara (present day Comoros Islands).

I acknowledge that it could be a coincidence. But pretty much the entire Book of Mormon account can be explained if we take what 17th century writers knew about the New World that Columbus discovered in both the East and West Indies. Start in the east and move west. Follow the archaeological evidence that is available, and it all fits.

Fascinating evidence, and thanks for it!

I am not sure though that it is necessary to attach too much importance to defining "America" in terms of taking in the entire Pacific.  I think that is a major stretch.

I would not want to base any theology on such a tenuous definition especially when I don't understand why it is necessary to do so.  Yes indeed those lands may very well have a connection to the Book of Mormon peoples!

[Rajah Manchou]

On 1/21/2018 at 9:54 PM, mfbukowski said:

Fascinating evidence, and thanks for it!

I am not sure though that it is necessary to attach too much importance to defining "America" in terms of taking in the entire Pacific.  I think that is a major stretch.

I would not want to base any theology on such a tenuous definition especially when I don't understand why it is necessary to do so.  Yes indeed those lands may very well have a connection to the Book of Mormon peoples!

Slow responding, but I was just reminded of an article written by Blake Ostler on this topic:

"Jacob reads a text from Isaiah at the convocation that he later uses to reassure the Nephites that they remain a remnant of the covenant people even though they had been separated from Israel. The passage of Isaiah begins with the question Jacob addressed: “Yea, for thus saith the Lord: Have I put thee away, or have I cast thee off forever?” It appears that Jacob chooses to read from Isaiah 51–52:2 at this convocation because Isaiah affirms that those who have been cast off are still recognized as God’s chosen covenant people and “the isles [of the sea] shall wait upon me”(Isaiah 51:5). Jacob observes that his people have “been led to a better land, for the Lord has made the sea our path, and we are upon an isle of the sea”. He adds: “But great are the promises of the Lord unto them who are upon the isles of the sea; wherefore as it says isles; there must needs be more than this, and they are inhabited also by our brethren”. It seems clear that Nephi and Jacob both place special emphasis on the “isles of the sea” because they see references to those who are on the isles as references to themselves and also to others who are already there on the isles of the sea. As Nephi states: “[T]hen will he remember the covenants which he made to their fathers. Yea, then will he remember the isles of the sea; yea, and all the people who are of the house of Israel. . .”. Indeed, the notion that the isles are specifically those found in the midst of the sea is so important that Jacob added the words “of the sea” to the Isaiah text when he read from it.

Such statements suggest that Jacob places the followers of Nephi not on the mainland or a continent, but upon an island—and he believes that there are others living on islands of the sea who can be counted as belonging to the “brethren” he is addressing in his two convocations. Such statements are difficult to square with the continental model of Book of Mormon geography which critics of the limited geography model argue the Book of Mormon requires. For these reasons, it has always seemed reasonable to me to look for the Nephites in an islands setting rather than on the continental mainland. Most importantly, Jacob’s statements indicate that there are others already present on other islands, just like the people of Nephi."

DNA STRANDS IN THE BOOK OF MORMON
By Blake T. Ostler

 

[mfbukowski]

54 minutes ago, Rajah Manchou said:

Slow responding, but I was just reminded of an article written by Blake Ostler on this topic:

"Jacob reads a text from Isaiah at the convocation that he later uses to reassure the Nephites that they remain a remnant of the covenant people even though they had been separated from Israel. The passage of Isaiah begins with the question Jacob addressed: “Yea, for thus saith the Lord: Have I put thee away, or have I cast thee off forever?” It appears that Jacob chooses to read from Isaiah 51–52:2 at this convocation because Isaiah affirms that those who have been cast off are still recognized as God’s chosen covenant people and “the isles [of the sea] shall wait upon me”(Isaiah 51:5). Jacob observes that his people have “been led to a better land, for the Lord has made the sea our path, and we are upon an isle of the sea”. He adds: “But great are the promises of the Lord unto them who are upon the isles of the sea; wherefore as it says isles; there must needs be more than this, and they are inhabited also by our brethren”. It seems clear that Nephi and Jacob both place special emphasis on the “isles of the sea” because they see references to those who are on the isles as references to themselves and also to others who are already there on the isles of the sea. As Nephi states: “[T]hen will he remember the covenants which he made to their fathers. Yea, then will he remember the isles of the sea; yea, and all the people who are of the house of Israel. . .”. Indeed, the notion that the isles are specifically those found in the midst of the sea is so important that Jacob added the words “of the sea” to the Isaiah text when he read from it.

Such statements suggest that Jacob places the followers of Nephi not on the mainland or a continent, but upon an island—and he believes that there are others living on islands of the sea who can be counted as belonging to the “brethren” he is addressing in his two convocations. Such statements are difficult to square with the continental model of Book of Mormon geography which critics of the limited geography model argue the Book of Mormon requires. For these reasons, it has always seemed reasonable to me to look for the Nephites in an islands setting rather than on the continental mainland. Most importantly, Jacob’s statements indicate that there are others already present on other islands, just like the people of Nephi."

DNA STRANDS IN THE BOOK OF MORMON
By Blake T. Ostler

 

Sounds good to me!  I just would not define the whole Pacific as part of "America"- it seems misleading.  I don't think it is necessary to believe that the Pacific is "America" in order to believe that the Pacific Islands are full of Nephites.

[mfbukowski]

On 1/20/2018 at 12:04 AM, Rajah Manchou said:

 

Nevermind- I made a mistake.

Edited February 3, 2018 by mfbukowski

[Rajah Manchou]

24 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

Sounds good to me!  I just would not define the whole Pacific as part of "America"- it seems misleading.  I don't think it is necessary to believe that the Pacific is "America" in order to believe that the Pacific Islands are full of Nephites.

I agree. But is it necessary to believe that the Book of Mormon is an account of "Americans"?

At some point the tenuous political definition of America does factor into our theology, and any BOM geography must acknowledge that.