Johnnie Cake Posted January 30, 2017 Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) 27 minutes ago, CMZ said: It's a possibility. But sometimes certain things really are just for a certain audience. I've listened to some of these secretly recorded meetings held by General Authorities that have been posted on the internet...the Swedish Rescue, Elder Bednars embarrassing embrace of a young man, Elder Ballard's advice to women to wear lip stick etc. in each of these unscripted unforced error addresses, it was the fact that they were speaking extemporaneously that got them in trouble instead of with a TelePrompTer Edited January 30, 2017 by Johnnie Cake
Johnnie Cake Posted January 30, 2017 Posted January 30, 2017 On 1/28/2017 at 7:17 PM, JulieM said: I don't know if it was the same conference, but a poster over on NOM posted about his experience with being the one to ask the question about Joseph marrying teenage brides. The thread "Apostle Fireside" is in the support forum over there and he relates his feelings and experience on page 2 of that thread. He asked Elder Rasband the question and then he said Elder Ballard also "stood to address me". It's interesting to read his view. Again, I'm not sure if this was in the same meeting you attended. This was was Friday night (in Arizona). Thought NOM was dead...has it been resurrected somewhere?
JulieM Posted January 30, 2017 Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said: Thought NOM was dead...has it been resurrected somewhere? Yes. https://newordermormon.net Edited January 30, 2017 by JulieM
JulieM Posted January 30, 2017 Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Jeanne said: I read this too. It was very interesting and this member is so sincere and is doing all he can to sustain the church and keep his beliefs. He does seem sincere and is really struggling. He states he put a lot of thought and prayer into which question to ask. He also seems to be having a difficult time afterwards now too . Edited January 30, 2017 by JulieM 2
rongo Posted January 30, 2017 Author Posted January 30, 2017 10 hours ago, JulieM said: He does seem sincere and is really struggling. He states he put a lot of thought and prayer into which question to ask. He also seems to be having a difficult time afterwards now too . Well, no kidding. As you read the week-long build up in the thread you referenced (posting the question he was going to try to ask, lots of high-fiving each other over at NOM, lots of good advice to lose the long dialogue the prefaced any sort of question, completely disregarding any of it and asking his original scripted question, etc.), is it any wonder that he's not doing well vis a vis the Church and his testimony? He intended all along to make a point and play to his online community crowd, not ask a question sincerely wanting to hear the answer that was given. Who's surprised that he's struggling still? Verily I say unto you, he hath his reward.
rongo Posted January 30, 2017 Author Posted January 30, 2017 On 1/28/2017 at 10:57 PM, cinepro said: I don't really get this. If they posted the entire event online and it was any good, they could help innumerable people. Sure, there are always those who will try and use what they say to make them look bad, but it honestly sounds kind of weak to have people saying "Oh, we had a great fireside with some Apostles and they addressed these monumental issues that are bothering Church members all over the world, and they did a really good job of it, but I can't tell you what they said..." I agree. I think it would be much better to acknowledge that people are going to share what they got out of local meetings --- and to embrace that as a good thing. Normal people who are not bent on criticizing every word and move of the Brethren recognize that when they speak locally, there is much good and a little that can be misused that comes out of that --- and they expect the misuse and discount it for what it is. I would prefer a "Journal of Discourses" approach, where we were all happy to receive whatever is given at a particular area for what it's worth --- and not to worry about any outliers, real and perceived, that come out of them. 1
JulieM Posted January 30, 2017 Posted January 30, 2017 47 minutes ago, rongo said: Well, no kidding. As you read the week-long build up in the thread you referenced (posting the question he was going to try to ask, lots of high-fiving each other over at NOM, lots of good advice to lose the long dialogue the prefaced any sort of question, completely disregarding any of it and asking his original scripted question, etc.), is it any wonder that he's not doing well vis a vis the Church and his testimony? He intended all along to make a point and play to his online community crowd, not ask a question sincerely wanting to hear the answer that was given. Who's surprised that he's struggling still? Verily I say unto you, he hath his reward. I actually haven't read the entire thread over there. I'd just read his post about asking the question and the aftermath (and it sounded familiar when I then read your post here so I wondered if it was the same conference). I know he's not alone with his struggles and questions, that's for sure. I think the answers he got were the best they have and that the leaders handled it well with him. I also think that advising members to read the essays is great advice (especially with where to start with questions about Joseph's polygamy and polyandry). 1
HappyJackWagon Posted January 30, 2017 Posted January 30, 2017 On 1/28/2017 at 3:39 PM, rongo said: We had a broadcast last night for the Phoenix area with Elder Ballard, Elder Rasband, Elder Robbins, and Elder Joaquin Costa. It was outstanding! Tonight, they are doing a broadcast just for the youth and youth leaders. We are doing a dinner for our youth an hour prior, and then watching it with them. Because some of the content could be misused to attack them (especially on the internet), I don't want to post my full notes write-up online (and, they wanted all devices turned off so that snippets didn't bounce around online. I figure extensive notes are sort of the same thing). It had an unscripted Q&A that ran over the announced time by about 30 minutes. Questions were 1) Joseph Smith polyandry and teenage wives, 2) pressure on young women to serve mission, 3) children in divorced/blended families with different values (i.e., anti-LDS), 4) the policy on ordinances for children with parents in gay marriages. It really was a good meeting! We look forward to the one tonight. I don't understand the point of a thread like this. You say there was a good meeting with good things said by church leaders but you won't share them because they didn't want you to share. So how do we talk about this meeting? It does raise some questions though. 1- Why do prophets seers and revelators not want us to know what they said at a meeting? 2- Why should people in Phoenix have more access to apostles and their answers than the rest of us? We haven't had anything like this in my area for at least the last few years. CMZ said- Quote But sometimes certain things really are just for a certain audience. 3- Why would general church answers on topics like described in the OP be different from one area to another. We're not talking about specific local issues. These are church wide issues so the answers really should be the same for everyone. I can't see why the answer about polyandry and teenage wives would be different for people in Phoenix. 2
Rain Posted January 30, 2017 Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) 26 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said: 2- Why should people in Phoenix have more access to apostles and their answers than the rest of us? We haven't had anything like this in my area for at least the last few years. One of the things I have noticed since moving here is that the Phoenix area is often one of the first to experience something and there are quite a few pilot programs going. My understanding is one of the reasons is that there is a good mix of heavily LDS areas and not very many LDS areas, though that doesn't explain some of the stuff like mini iPad or facebook accounts for the missionaries (pilots according to the missionaries here a few years back.) So maybe they will do something similar in your area later? Keep in mind though if this like that it is subject to change before it reaches you. I know with Just Serve it was done one way in some areas and changed and done different ways in a few areas and the best way was chosen. I figure that Rongo posted to show that church leaders are listening and addressing these things because we often hear they are not. I would love to have them recorded. It always seems to work out that my husband is traveling when they happen. I didn't feel like they said anything wrong, though I found times when I knew others would not be satisfied, but I definitely feel one should respect their wishes when they ask not to be recorded even if I don't understand it. Edited January 30, 2017 by Rain 1
stemelbow Posted January 30, 2017 Posted January 30, 2017 On 1/28/2017 at 2:39 PM, rongo said: We had a broadcast last night for the Phoenix area with Elder Ballard, Elder Rasband, Elder Robbins, and Elder Joaquin Costa. It was outstanding! Tonight, they are doing a broadcast just for the youth and youth leaders. We are doing a dinner for our youth an hour prior, and then watching it with them. Because some of the content could be misused to attack them (especially on the internet), I don't want to post my full notes write-up online (and, they wanted all devices turned off so that snippets didn't bounce around online. I figure extensive notes are sort of the same thing). It had an unscripted Q&A that ran over the announced time by about 30 minutes. Questions were 1) Joseph Smith polyandry and teenage wives, 2) pressure on young women to serve mission, 3) children in divorced/blended families with different values (i.e., anti-LDS), 4) the policy on ordinances for children with parents in gay marriages. It really was a good meeting! We look forward to the one tonight. Did they speak at that Mesa multi-gym place and then send it out to Stakes in the area or something? Sounds cute. A large regional conference like they used to. I'm glad you enjoyed it. Too bad we get no benefit. In our stake conference my stake leaders told us, "well we've been in nearly 10 years, so we might not get to speak at you again so we wanted to make this real special." The second councilor got up and reminded us how much richer he is than the rest of us and how he could have moved to a really nice area but stayed in our poor neighborhood because he was taught to do the right thing and no matter what you just need to stick with your decisions and be happy--stop pouting about crap that happens. The first councilor got up and told everyone that he has a good friend who left the Church and that his friend is bad because he just repeats issues with the Church that others have (I was particularly disappointed that he essentially mocked this "dear friend" of his a few times). His dear friend he says has wasted his life and is passing his time obsessing about questions about the Church. Then he got teary-eyed and said he's glad his mom told him to not read stuff that is not ok'd by the Church because it's bad stuff and will surely damage you. He cautioned us all by saying we already have the whole truth, we don't need other sources of information, we don't need to consider other perspectives. Then the SP got up and told the audience how to properly conduct MP one on one meetings. Wife looked at me after a few minutes of realizing his talk was focused for the old men in the audience and said, "let's go". So we left--missed about the last 5 minutes of his talk and drove off without all the mass confusion of cars. 1
rongo Posted January 30, 2017 Author Posted January 30, 2017 27 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said: I don't understand the point of a thread like this. You say there was a good meeting with good things said by church leaders but you won't share them because they didn't want you to share. So how do we talk about this meeting? It does raise some questions though. Well, by talking about what is shared (and I and others have shared some things). I would like to post notes for discussion, but won't/can't out of respect for the Brethren's request. That request alone results in discussion . . . 1- Why do prophets seers and revelators not want us to know what they said at a meeting? It isn't that they "don't want us to know." They don't want the blogosphere to go haywire over what is said. I think it would actually be good if the Church, like cinepro suggested earlier, embraced this as a positive source of exposure, and trusted to people's good sense in sifting between reasonable vs. unreasonable criticisms as represented in social media. 2- Why should people in Phoenix have more access to apostles and their answers than the rest of us? We haven't had anything like this in my area for at least the last few years. We were told that these "listening tours" and broadcasts are going to be rolled out nationwide. As Rain said, it does seem like Phoenix often is a pilot/testing ground. I hope they continue the live, unscripted Q&As! 3
rongo Posted January 30, 2017 Author Posted January 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, stemelbow said: Did they speak at that Mesa multi-gym place and then send it out to Stakes in the area or something? The parents broadcast was out of a stake center in Queen Creek. The youth and leaders broadcast was out of the Interstake Center in Mesa. The gym looked like a large high school gym. Talk about a lot of room! We've played sports events there before. It's a stake center with the giant gym. 1
stemelbow Posted January 30, 2017 Posted January 30, 2017 10 minutes ago, Rain said: One of the things I have noticed since moving here is that the Phoenix area is often one of the first to experience something and there are quite a few pilot programs going. My understanding is one of the reasons is that there is a good mix of heavily LDS areas and not very many LDS areas, though that doesn't explain some of the stuff like mini iPad or facebook accounts for the missionaries (pilots according to the missionaries here a few years back.) So maybe they will do something similar in your area later? Keep in mind though if this like that it is subject to change before it reaches you. I know with Just Serve it was done one way in some areas and changed and done different ways in a few areas and the best way was chosen. I figure that Rongo posted to show that church leaders are listening and addressing these things because we often hear they are not. I would love to have them recorded. It always seems to work out that my husband is traveling when they happen. I didn't feel like they said anything wrong, though I found times when I knew others would not be satisfied, but I definitely feel one should respect their wishes when they ask not to be recorded even if I don't understand it. Well I'm confused. Did they ask not to be recorded? or did they ask to not repeat what was said? or both? I dont' think I've heard any leaders say we can't repeat their messages, even if they at times have suggested they prefer not to be recorded. You guys are being tight lipped as if something special was said, adding to the cute mystery. My guess is, in spite of the excitement generated, not much was really added. Just repeats of the same old stuff.
stemelbow Posted January 30, 2017 Posted January 30, 2017 5 minutes ago, rongo said: The parents broadcast was out of a stake center in Queen Creek. The youth and leaders broadcast was out of the Interstake Center in Mesa. The gym looked like a large high school gym. Talk about a lot of room! We've played sports events there before. It's a stake center with the giant gym. Gotcha. A multi-location broadcasting event.
rongo Posted January 30, 2017 Author Posted January 30, 2017 Just now, stemelbow said: Gotcha. A multi-location broadcasting event. It involved like 58 stakes.
Rain Posted January 30, 2017 Posted January 30, 2017 8 minutes ago, stemelbow said: Then the SP got up and told the audience how to properly conduct MP one on one meetings. Wife looked at me after a few minutes of realizing his talk was focused for the old men in the audience and said, "let's go". So we left--missed about the last 5 minutes of his talk and drove off without all the mass confusion of cars. They spoke in a regular stake center on Friday. My son mentioned they spoke in the multI stake center on Saturday, but I was not there to see. Please don't drive off early. I understand you don't find it important, but lately I have seen a pattern of this happening with multiple people leaving early and it is starting to get quite disruptive. It's only a few minutes and if you plan ahead you can get out quickly.
stemelbow Posted January 30, 2017 Posted January 30, 2017 1 minute ago, Rain said: They spoke in a regular stake center on Friday. My son mentioned they spoke in the multI stake center on Saturday, but I was not there to see. Please don't drive off early. I understand you don't find it important, but lately I have seen a pattern of this happening with multiple people leaving early and it is starting to get quite disruptive. It's only a few minutes and if you plan ahead you can get out quickly. I assure you there was nothing disruptive about our leaving early.
Rain Posted January 30, 2017 Posted January 30, 2017 11 minutes ago, rongo said: The parents broadcast was out of a stake center in Queen Creek. The youth and leaders broadcast was out of the Interstake Center in Mesa. The gym looked like a large high school gym. Talk about a lot of room! We've played sports events there before. It's a stake center with the giant gym. We have been having stake conference there. It is fairly close and usually if we don't there have been done real technical problems where we are missing a lot of stake conference. So glad it has been repaired since it flooded.
Rain Posted January 30, 2017 Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, stemelbow said: Well I'm confused. Did they ask not to be recorded? or did they ask to not repeat what was said? or both? I dont' think I've heard any leaders say we can't repeat their messages, even if they at times have suggested they prefer not to be recorded. You guys are being tight lipped as if something special was said, adding to the cute mystery. My guess is, in spite of the excitement generated, not much was really added. Just repeats of the same old stuff. They did ask not to be recorded. They really emphasized that point. You would probably say there was nothing new, but the way things were said helped me. I went over and read the NOM thread and I know at least there they were glad that Elder Ballard suggested reading the essays. I would not have posted this thread, but then there are a lot I would not post! I was curious about what other Phoenix people thought as I know we have Phoenix people here, but except for rongo I can't remember who. Edited to add: I don't remember exactly what they said about repeating what they have said. I feel more comfortable about it than rongo does I think. Honestly, I don't remember a lot of what was said because I really didn't hear anything voiced as being a new concept to me. Just that sometimes it was said in a way that explained things better than I can. It was the personal Spirit things that I got out of it that I wrote down. Edited January 30, 2017 by Rain
Rain Posted January 30, 2017 Posted January 30, 2017 9 minutes ago, stemelbow said: I assure you there was nothing disruptive about our leaving early. I'm sure that is the way that most who have been leaving felt and if it was only one couple I would not have noticed a thing. It is that one person starts it all and then many others follow. Always the last 5-10 minutes of the session.
stemelbow Posted January 30, 2017 Posted January 30, 2017 4 minutes ago, Rain said: They did ask not to be recorded. They really emphasized that point. You would probably say there was nothing new, but the way things were said helped me. I went over and read the NOM thread and I know at least there they were glad that Elder Ballard suggested reading the essays. I would not have posted this thread, but then there are a lot I would not post! I was curious about what other Phoenix people though as I know we have seen real here, but except for rongo I can't remember who. Well I saw the Mesa joint all set up Friday morning before the event--kinda surprised it was set up Friday morning but wasn't used until Saturday evening. They even showed me the three new overhead cameras they added recently, proudly proclaiming their approval. The escape early clause of that place would be difficult, though. I imagine I would have caused some disruption if I left early. But I was out of town by 1 pm that day, so I didn't get to stick around and participate. I was there on business--don't live in the area.
stemelbow Posted January 30, 2017 Posted January 30, 2017 5 minutes ago, Rain said: I'm sure that is the way that most who have been leaving felt and if it was only one couple I would not have noticed a thing. It is that one person starts it all and then many others follow. Always the last 5-10 minutes of the session. I assure you, your worries about me leaving are unfounded. No one possibly noticed. But again, you aren't very privy to what was going on, where we sat and how it was arranged. So, let's just say, you really don't have a clue as per our situation.
bluebell Posted January 30, 2017 Posted January 30, 2017 43 minutes ago, Rain said: One of the things I have noticed since moving here is that the Phoenix area is often one of the first to experience something and there are quite a few pilot programs going. My understanding is one of the reasons is that there is a good mix of heavily LDS areas and not very many LDS areas, though that doesn't explain some of the stuff like mini iPad or facebook accounts for the missionaries (pilots according to the missionaries here a few years back.) So maybe they will do something similar in your area later? Keep in mind though if this like that it is subject to change before it reaches you. I know with Just Serve it was done one way in some areas and changed and done different ways in a few areas and the best way was chosen. I figure that Rongo posted to show that church leaders are listening and addressing these things because we often hear they are not. I would love to have them recorded. It always seems to work out that my husband is traveling when they happen. I didn't feel like they said anything wrong, though I found times when I knew others would not be satisfied, but I definitely feel one should respect their wishes when they ask not to be recorded even if I don't understand it. I think that they often have the same pilot program in different areas. I know that when we were living in Montana our missionaries were also in the Facebook/iPad pilot program. When i was serving my mission we were part of a pilot program using genealogy to find investigators and i think they said that some missions in the east coast were doing the same thing.
bluebell Posted January 30, 2017 Posted January 30, 2017 41 minutes ago, stemelbow said: Did they speak at that Mesa multi-gym place and then send it out to Stakes in the area or something? Sounds cute. A large regional conference like they used to. I'm glad you enjoyed it. Too bad we get no benefit. In our stake conference my stake leaders told us, "well we've been in nearly 10 years, so we might not get to speak at you again so we wanted to make this real special." The second councilor got up and reminded us how much richer he is than the rest of us and how he could have moved to a really nice area but stayed in our poor neighborhood because he was taught to do the right thing and no matter what you just need to stick with your decisions and be happy--stop pouting about crap that happens. The first councilor got up and told everyone that he has a good friend who left the Church and that his friend is bad because he just repeats issues with the Church that others have (I was particularly disappointed that he essentially mocked this "dear friend" of his a few times). His dear friend he says has wasted his life and is passing his time obsessing about questions about the Church. Then he got teary-eyed and said he's glad his mom told him to not read stuff that is not ok'd by the Church because it's bad stuff and will surely damage you. He cautioned us all by saying we already have the whole truth, we don't need other sources of information, we don't need to consider other perspectives. Then the SP got up and told the audience how to properly conduct MP one on one meetings. Wife looked at me after a few minutes of realizing his talk was focused for the old men in the audience and said, "let's go". So we left--missed about the last 5 minutes of his talk and drove off without all the mass confusion of cars. How does it 'sound cute'?
HappyJackWagon Posted January 30, 2017 Posted January 30, 2017 47 minutes ago, Rain said: One of the things I have noticed since moving here is that the Phoenix area is often one of the first to experience something and there are quite a few pilot programs going. My understanding is one of the reasons is that there is a good mix of heavily LDS areas and not very many LDS areas, though that doesn't explain some of the stuff like mini iPad or facebook accounts for the missionaries (pilots according to the missionaries here a few years back.) So maybe they will do something similar in your area later? Keep in mind though if this like that it is subject to change before it reaches you. I know with Just Serve it was done one way in some areas and changed and done different ways in a few areas and the best way was chosen. I figure that Rongo posted to show that church leaders are listening and addressing these things because we often hear they are not. I would love to have them recorded. It always seems to work out that my husband is traveling when they happen. I didn't feel like they said anything wrong, though I found times when I knew others would not be satisfied, but I definitely feel one should respect their wishes when they ask not to be recorded even if I don't understand it. They haven't addressed anything to me so I still say they aren't responding. If they respond to a small group and tell them not to share, then that is not a response to the church. It's as if they want to claim they are responding yet maintain plausible deniability if there is any blowback.
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