Phoenix area parents, youth, and leaders broadcast

[bluebell]

42 minutes ago, rongo said:

Well, by talking about what is shared (and I and others have shared some things). I would like to post notes for discussion, but won't/can't out of respect for the Brethren's request. That request alone results in discussion . . .  

 

 

It isn't that they "don't want us to know." They don't want the blogosphere to go haywire over what is said. I think it would actually be good if the Church, like cinepro suggested earlier, embraced this as a positive source of exposure, and trusted to people's good sense in sifting between reasonable vs. unreasonable criticisms as represented in social media.

 

 

We were told that these "listening tours" and broadcasts are going to be rolled out nationwide. As Rain said, it does seem like Phoenix often is a pilot/testing ground.

I hope they continue the live, unscripted Q&As!  

 

When Elder Oaks visiting our stake conference last year the unscripted Q&A parts with him were the best!

[stemelbow]

3 minutes ago, bluebell said:

How does it 'sound cute'?  

When I read it, it reads cute, so I guess I used "sound" where I should have said "read".  My apologies, bluebell.  If you are asking why is it cute to me, I'd say, a large gathering of people talking about stuff always has a vibe of cuteness for me.  Don't know why.  It just does. 

[stemelbow]

4 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

They haven't addressed anything to me so I still say they aren't responding. If they respond to a small group and tell them not to share, then that is not a response to the church.

It's as if they want to claim they are responding yet maintain plausible deniability if there is any blowback.

I don't think they said, "don't share".  They seemed to indicate, don't record us and stuff.  But surely they can share.  Not sure why they are being tight-lipped.  But my guess is that there's nothing new given.  I'm not sure the "Phoenix area is special and get's stuff before everyone else" idea really works on this example. 

[bluebell]

Just now, stemelbow said:

When I read it, it reads cute, so I guess I used "sound" where I should have said "read".  My apologies, bluebell.  If you are asking why is it cute to me, I'd say, a large gathering of people talking about stuff always has a vibe of cuteness for me.  Don't know why.  It just does. 

The only times that i've heard people use 'cute' in that way, they are trying to be snarky and passively/aggressively sarcastic.  I don't usually read your posts that way (they usually seem sincere to me) which is why i asked.  It seemed out of character and i wasn't sure i was understanding you correctly.

I'm still not.

[stemelbow]

7 minutes ago, bluebell said:

The only times that i've heard people use 'cute' in that way, they are trying to be snarky and passively/aggressively sarcastic.  I don't usually read your posts that way (they usually seem sincere to me) which is why i asked.  It seemed out of character and i wasn't sure i was understanding you correctly.

I'm still not.

What?  You haven't detected the snarkiness before?  I didn't mean anything snarky here.  I do think large groups gathered to have some level of camaraderie, which I like to see.  It often means a group of people has formed to find unity and purpose.  That is good too.  So, I guess I'm not sure what more I can offer on this. 

[rongo]

37 minutes ago, Rain said:

They did ask not to be recorded.  They really emphasized that point. You would probably say there was nothing new, but the way things were said helped me. I went over and read the NOM thread and I know at least there they were glad that Elder Ballard suggested reading the essays. 

Edited to add: I don't remember exactly what they said about repeating what they have said. I feel more comfortable about it than rongo does I think. Honestly, I don't remember a lot of what was said because I really didn't hear anthing voiced as being a new concept to me. Just that sometimes it was said in a way that explained things better than I can. It was the personal Spirit things that I got out of it that I wrote down.

I'm not uncomfortable about anything that was said. They just made it clear that they didn't want recordings or transcripts shared outside of the target audience. My five-page notes aren't technically a transcript, but rather a pretty detailed reconstruction.

There wasn't anything new, per se, but several outstanding points and insights. Elder Costa, in particular, on pornography. I think the Brethren should encourage widespread sharing of thoughts and experiences with things like these, but since I was specifically told not to, then I won't. I could share some highlights, though, I think.

[stemelbow]

6 minutes ago, rongo said:

I'm not uncomfortable about anything that was said. They just made it clear that they didn't want recordings or transcripts shared outside of the target audience. My five-page notes aren't technically a transcript, but rather a pretty detailed reconstruction.

There wasn't anything new, per se, but several outstanding points and insights. Elder Costa, in particular, on pornography. I think the Brethren should encourage widespread sharing of thoughts and experiences with things like these, but since I was specifically told not to, then I won't. I could share some highlights, though, I think.

Well we're three pages into this topic and we don't know what was said, yet.  if you have something to share, I'd say share it.  What outstanding points and insights on pornography did Elder Costa share? 

[bluebell]

9 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

What?  You haven't detected the snarkiness before?  I didn't mean anything snarky here.  I do think large groups gathered to have some level of camaraderie, which I like to see.  It often means a group of people has formed to find unity and purpose.  That is good too.  So, I guess I'm not sure what more I can offer on this. 

Not really, so i guess i've been reading you wrong for some time.

The word 'cute' is often used as an insult to denote that something shouldn't be taken seriously or deserves little to no respect ("oh, you're so cute when you're mad" or, used by the UofU "the BYU cougars are so cute when they play football" for example. )

 

[bluebell]

10 minutes ago, rongo said:

I'm not uncomfortable about anything that was said. They just made it clear that they didn't want recordings or transcripts shared outside of the target audience. My five-page notes aren't technically a transcript, but rather a pretty detailed reconstruction.

There wasn't anything new, per se, but several outstanding points and insights. Elder Costa, in particular, on pornography. I think the Brethren should encourage widespread sharing of thoughts and experiences with things like these, but since I was specifically told not to, then I won't. I could share some highlights, though, I think.

We had a great combined YW/YM lesson on pornography yesterday in our ward.  It was taught by a senior couple that is serving a proselytizing mission but worked for 8 years in the church's addiction recovery meetings and did a 2 year service mission with the pornography side specifically.

It was full of love, understanding, hope, and focused on the dangers of pornography from a neurological view instead of focusing on the it's a sin aspect.

[stemelbow]

8 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Not really, so i guess i've been reading you wrong for some time.

The word 'cute' is often used as an insult to denote that something shouldn't be taken seriously or deserves little to no respect ("oh, you're so cute when you're mad" or, used by the UofU "the BYU cougars are so cute when they play football" for example. )

 

Or you're so cute when you try and talk to us grownups.  I get ya.  Sorry for the confusion, if there be any

[rongo]

33 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

Well we're three pages into this topic and we don't know what was said, yet.  if you have something to share, I'd say share it.  What outstanding points and insights on pornography did Elder Costa share? 

You seem a little cranky today, stemelbow. Definitely not cute . . .  

Elder Rasband introduced him as "the newest general authority," and said that, to ease him into the calling, they were giving him an easy topic: pornography (laughter). 

He said that parents should have two main concerns. 1) How to talk about it without piquing their interest or introducing them to things they may not have thought about, and 2) How to protect them from exposure in the first place. 

He exhorted parents to regularly talk to their children *with the Spirit* about how things are, and not to shy away from asking specifically about that. He used the phrase "gone are the days" four times in emphasizing that we cannot assume that our children have not been exposed, and assume that things are okay.

He stressed the importance of distinguishing between "incidents" and "patterns." The approach and concern level is different if there are patterns as opposed to isolated incidents (inasmuch as this can be accurately determined). 

*I really liked this one. I think many adults should take this to heart as well.* He shared his family rule, which they got from his daughter's mission president in San Francisco. "Turn on your device only when your intention is clear." Never turn on a device simply to surf, kill time, browse, play, etc. The habit among youth and parents alike of aimless wandering on devices, endless game playing, and time wasting doing really nothing really at all is asking for trouble.

He emphasized that it is important to emphasize hope through the atonement, and he promised that images and things that are in our minds because of exposure can be eradicated.

"Elder Rasband, was that good enough? I have another topic" (laughter).  

[Rain]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

I think that they often have the same pilot program in different areas.  I know that when we were living in Montana our missionaries were also in the Facebook/iPad pilot program.

When i was serving my mission we were part of a pilot program using genealogy to find investigators and i think they said that some missions in the east coast were doing the same thing.

They do.  I know they were in other areas for Just Serve when they were piloting here and they were in Denver/San Diego/Dallas before here.  

[bluebell]

6 minutes ago, Rain said:

They do.  I know they were in other areas for Just Serve when they were piloting here and they were in Denver/San Diego/Dallas before here.  

Yeah, we've had Just Serve since 2015 here in the area, but since it first rolled out i haven't heard a thing about it.  I hope they get it more organized.

[Rain]

1 hour ago, stemelbow said:

I don't think they said, "don't share".  They seemed to indicate, don't record us and stuff.  But surely they can share.  Not sure why they are being tight-lipped.  But my guess is that there's nothing new given.  I'm not sure the "Phoenix area is special and get's stuff before everyone else" idea really works on this example. 

I didn't mean it to be that way in any way.  I did not take the extensive notes that rongo did, but I have shared some of what I heard. Most of my notes were personal in nature, not what was said so it wasn't being tight lipped for me - it was because I wasn't going to put words into their mouths, but share how I felt about it.  

I didn't mean that Phoenix was special - I was just trying to show that there are demographic reasons why sometimes things come here and that doesn't mean before other areas and that if you wait you may have them in your area as well.  I would not have said anything about it had the lack of it being in other areas yet not been commented on.

Honestly, I have just been trying to answer questions I saw posted here. It was not intended to be an "I'm special" kind of thing.

And when I kindly asked you not to leave it was because I was hoping to help people be aware of how this is becoming a disruption when done in larger numbers, not that I know you personally were a disruption.  Perhaps I notice more because I tend to be in the gym and hear all the feet clomping across the floor. I'm not worried about YOU and your actions, I am frustrated when I can't hear or have a hard time paying attention because so many choose to leave with you. 

Edited January 30, 2017 by Rain

[Rain]

19 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Yeah, we've had Just Serve since 2015 here in the area, but since it first rolled out i haven't heard a thing about it.  I hope they get it more organized.

That may change.  It came into our area in 2014, but there are a lot of people who still don't know about it.  I've found some of it really depends on stake leadership.  Some stakes are really gung ho on it. There are some really cool things happening, but if the specialist doesn't have a lot of support she/he may not have a lot of opportunities to share about it.  So they have changed up a few things of how it is supposed to run and stake leaders are finding out about it this month.  Hopefully things will go a little better.   

[rongo]

Just now, Rain said:

That may change.  It came into our area in 2014, but there are a lot of people who still don't know about it.  I've found some of it really depends on stake leadership.  Some stakes are really gung ho on it. There are some really cool things happening, but if the specialist doesn't have a lot of support she/he may not have a lot of opportunities to share about it.  So they have changed up a few things of how it is supposed to run and stake leaders are finding out about it this month.  Hopefully things will go a little better.   

My problem with JustServe is that the Church seems to want to use it for publicity and PR. As part of the big November service push, we had several good ideas from ward members and sisters in particular that were discouraged from the stake and area level because they wouldn't go through JustServe. They wanted everything to be documented, booked, and logged through JustServe, and this seemed to me to go against the spontaneous service that I think people should be doing. Whether or not it's registered with JustServe, if it's a meaningful and good idea, then "just serve!"  I told my Relief Society to go ahead and organize and do their good ideas, even though the Church didn't get JustServe credit for them. 

Getting it going has been tough in our stake. We have been through four JustServe coordinators in two years, and they all get frustrated at perceived lack of support and the dearth of service opportunities on JustServe. It is also really hard, in practice, to get a new thing listed with JustServe, and many organizations don't want to or are leery of it (because they are afraid of relying on a big "on paper" commitment through the web site that won't materialize). 

[stemelbow]

38 minutes ago, rongo said:

You seem a little cranky today, stemelbow.

I guess so, oops. 

38 minutes ago, rongo said:

 

Definitely not cute . . .  

Elder Rasband introduced him as "the newest general authority," and said that, to ease him into the calling, they were giving him an easy topic: pornography (laughter). 

He said that parents should have two main concerns. 1) How to talk about it without piquing their interest or introducing them to things they may not have thought about, and 2) How to protect them from exposure in the first place. 

He exhorted parents to regularly talk to their children *with the Spirit* about how things are, and not to shy away from asking specifically about that. He used the phrase "gone are the days" four times in emphasizing that we cannot assume that our children have not been exposed, and assume that things are okay.

He stressed the importance of distinguishing between "incidents" and "patterns." The approach and concern level is different if there are patterns as opposed to isolated incidents (inasmuch as this can be accurately determined). 

*I really liked this one. I think many adults should take this to heart as well.* He shared his family rule, which they got from his daughter's mission president in San Francisco. "Turn on your device only when your intention is clear." Never turn on a device simply to surf, kill time, browse, play, etc. The habit among youth and parents alike of aimless wandering on devices, endless game playing, and time wasting doing really nothing really at all is asking for trouble.

He emphasized that it is important to emphasize hope through the atonement, and he promised that images and things that are in our minds because of exposure can be eradicated.

"Elder Rasband, was that good enough? I have another topic" (laughter).  

Thanks.  Sounds like good advice, but surfing isnt' as bad as he lets on.  I find some of the most interesting things when I'm less directed, letting the spirit direct while surfing the net.  Ah well. 

[rongo]

6 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

Thanks.  Sounds like good advice, but surfing isnt' as bad as he lets on.  I find some of the most interesting things when I'm less directed, letting the spirit direct while surfing the net.  Ah well. 

You're probably not battling a porn problem. For those who are, surfing is . . . not good.

If you're interested in youth not running into stuff, protecting them from first exposure, it's also . . . not good.

[stemelbow]

24 minutes ago, rongo said:

You're probably not battling a porn problem. For those who are, surfing is . . . not good.

If you're interested in youth not running into stuff, protecting them from first exposure, it's also . . . not good.

He's definitely right about our children being exposed.  it happens no matter what they/we try.  We need to be on top of it in openness and conversation with our kids. 

[Rain]

1 hour ago, rongo said:

My problem with JustServe is that the Church seems to want to use it for publicity and PR. As part of the big November service push, we had several good ideas from ward members and sisters in particular that were discouraged from the stake and area level because they wouldn't go through JustServe. They wanted everything to be documented, booked, and logged through JustServe, and this seemed to me to go against the spontaneous service that I think people should be doing. Whether or not it's registered with JustServe, if it's a meaningful and good idea, then "just serve!"  I told my Relief Society to go ahead and organize and do their good ideas, even though the Church didn't get JustServe credit for them. 

Getting it going has been tough in our stake. We have been through four JustServe coordinators in two years, and they all get frustrated at perceived lack of support and the dearth of service opportunities on JustServe. It is also really hard, in practice, to get a new thing listed with JustServe, and many organizations don't want to or are leery of it (because they are afraid of relying on a big "on paper" commitment through the web site that won't materialize). 

Since this is your thread I will keep going with this.  After my post if you don't want me to keep going off track with it then I don't mind going to a new thread.  I just don't want you to feel I am interrupting your topic.

Fall into service was a one time thing.  The idea was for members to get familiar with Just Serve, get organizations help needed and build good relationships between them.   

A major part of the problems organizations are having, especially refugee organizations after the call to help refugees, was that organizations were overwhelmed with phone calls from people who were spontaneously wanting to serve.  Some of them were not quite sure where they needed help.  Others were so busy answering phone calls they were not getting much else done.   The head of Just Serve in Phoenix asked us to please share with our stake to look on Just Serve and not just go directly to organizations because specialists were helping the organizations find how the volunteers could help them.  Then when the projects were up the volunteers would not overwhelm the coordinators because volunteers just went through the website.   

Another problem was that there have been people who call up and say, "We want to help you with ______.  We are bringing ____ many people."  Well, the organizations often really didn't need that and didn't know how to work with that many people, but some felt they needed to yes because they wanted to maintain good relations with the community.  And while the thing was good it sometimes creates more work for them than before they had volunteers.

That is why the Phoenix area was supposed to work through Just Serve.  Not to discourage spontaneous service. It really was a big problem for a number of them. It had nothing to do with "credit". So if you find service that needs to be done then that is a great spontaneous service.  If you are looking for service then people should at least consider looking at Just Serve to see if an organization is there before calling them and then please use the volunteer button instead of call.  

Having put several projects on Just Serve it is not hard in practice to get a new project up. The only hard thing is getting the ear of the organizations - and yes, impossible with some . From there it is easy. I've found that once they understand that it costs them nothing, they set all the requirements of volunteers, they decide what is put up on the website etc. that most like it and some are tickled by it. It has been a huge blessing for some.  We have started to find that even some of the organizations or churches that were initially against it are coming around because of the experiences other organizations have had.    

It can be discouraging to hear about a dearth of opportunities. There are 19 projects within 5 miles of me.  97 within 10.  After hearing "there are only donation projects" a number of times I went searching for things specific to the people who were telling me they couldn't find anything.  I found a minimum of 2 projects for everyone of them.  Sometimes it took creativity - for example if you don't want to do a donation drive (because members only have so much money) then do another type of drive.  How many people have old glasses laying around they don't use anymore.  Combine that drive with a RS night where you talk about spiritual sight. (This is the part I actually love - finding projects for people to use creatively.)

It is also discouraging to hear from people in my stake when they say things like "everyone just wants money" when there are no projects on there that ask for money  - I was actually asked to watch projects for awhile to make sure that wasn't happening at one time.  

It is true that where I understand you to live there are fewer opportunities close by.  Some areas of town are like that. East Mesa seems to have a dearth.  West Mesa has opportunities spilling out their ears sometimes.  It just means sometimes I drive a little father.  And as the specialist, and even just as a member, I would have no problem making that drive for someone if they wanted to do a project at home and needed supplies picked up or delivered from the organization.

Just Serve has not been without problems.  We get that.  There will still probably be more, but I have seen it be a great blessing in the lives of volunteers and organizations.  

[rongo]

4 minutes ago, Rain said:

Since this is your thread I will keep going with this.  After my post if you don't want me to keep going off track with it then I don't mind going to a new thread.  I just don't want you to feel I am interrupting your topic.

No problem, whatsoever! I like discussion, and actually don't mind sidetracks on others' threads. You'll never catch me whining about threadjacks!  

It sounds like you are a phenomenal JustServe coordinator! I just have felt bad as I have seen members with good intentions and good attitudes get disillusioned trying to use the system and work with it in our stake. Like I said, we've had like four coordinators in 2 years, and they also were worn down by the experience. 

[rockpond]

18 hours ago, JulieM said:

He does seem sincere and is really struggling.  He states he put a lot of thought and prayer into which question to ask.  He also seems to be having a difficult time afterwards now too .

Yes... he definitely seemed sincere.

For those who want to read about the brother who asked the question, here is a link to the post where he describes his preparation, asking the question, and the reactions.

https://newordermormon.net/viewtopic.php?p=7352#p7352

[Rain]

40 minutes ago, rongo said:

No problem, whatsoever! I like discussion, and actually don't mind sidetracks on others' threads. You'll never catch me whining about threadjacks!  

It sounds like you are a phenomenal JustServe coordinator! I just have felt bad as I have seen members with good intentions and good attitudes get disillusioned trying to use the system and work with it in our stake. Like I said, we've had like four coordinators in 2 years, and they also were worn down by the experience. 

No, not phenomenal by any means.  I do have a gift of creativity, some experience and a love for service.  I have been frustrated with it as well sometimes - mostly because I see how it is not working in my stake and how it is working in the stake next to me.  What I have found is that when people (leaders and members) use it like it is supposed to be used then it works. I've had to practice explaining my ideas and the Spirit's ideas, about using it our stake a number of times to my husband so I could get wording right and the leaders could understand me better.  I recognize that using Just Serve as a solution rather than a burden is out of the box so it sometimes takes a while to get that across.

Here's a simple thing of what I mean about solution.  Members who receive help are supposed to do service of some kind if they can right?  That person could go to Just Serve to find projects he/she could do as the service if the ward doesn't already have a need that they could fill.  If the person needs help finding a project that fits them that would be an excellent use of the specialist - to help people find projects that fit.  

Perhaps there is a widow in the ward who is lonely.  At one time there was a pet foster project (not sure now) on Just Serve. Costs were covered by the organization.  A VT or HT could get the supplies from the organization and the pet for the widow and the widow could have an animal companion and not worry about extra money towards the pet.  

A young woman in the area came home from her mission and was headed to school in a couple of weeks.  She wanted to hit the ground running for the rest of her life.  Her mom told her about Just Serve.  An organization put a project on Just Serve kind of as a last hope.  They really didn't think they would find anyone that fit the bill.  Twenty minutes later this young woman found the project and volunteered.  It went so well the organization wanted her to do a second one before she left.  Wouldn't it be cool if you could keep all your missionaries running when they come home?

One of the things that kept me alive through my depression back in college was to do dishes for roommates or help them with homework. Just Serve projects may be a solution to help some of those people through.  

A just Serve project isn't going to work for everyone just as a delivered meal is not going to work for everyone.  What I have been asking of the leaders in my stake is to prayerfully consider it, along with all the other things, as part of the solution just as Elder Ballard asked that his missionary pray and read his scriptures, along with getting answers to his questions from Elder Ballard when they next met, as part of his solution.  What I would really like to know is if any of the leaders I talked with have done this.  So far I have heard nothing. I don't need it for validation, but it is important to me so I can see if I am hitting the target or not.