Heavenly Mother (from other thread)

[JLHPROF]

1 minute ago, Ahab said:

Yep, pretty basic, and we still teach all of that.

One thing I wish we would emphasize more though is that we all have more  than one Father in heaven, including many who were born after Adam was born in the garden of Eden as well as the infinite number of parents of Adam.

We really don't - it's rather heavily dependent on Adam-God.  It's also dependent on pre-mortal Christ NOT being the Jehovah of the Old Testament.
But both of these were understood the way I describe in the 19th century.  It wasn't until the 20th that our current teachings came to popularity.

[Ahab]

2 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

We really don't - it's rather heavily dependent on Adam-God.  It's also dependent on pre-mortal Christ NOT being the Jehovah of the Old Testament.
But both of these were understood the way I describe in the 19th century.  It wasn't until the 20th that our current teachings came to popularity.

Different people mean different things by the term "Adam-God" and we mainly focus now on teaching what is true about each or about how Adam is God.

Note that I did see some errors in what you said so I edited my post to reflect that.

[JLHPROF]

10 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Yep, pretty basic, and we still teach all of that... except for the parts you got wrong.  Resurrected beings don't, and can't, become mortal.

One thing I wish we would emphasize more is that we all have more  than one Father in heaven, including many who were born after Adam was born in the garden of Eden as well as the infinite number of parents of Adam.

"Resurrected beings don't, and can't, become mortal."
Says who?  They have power to lay down their life and take it up again.
Brigham taught that's exactly what happened in the garden.

The rest of your post, while subject to your usual vague way of phrasing things, I think I agree with completely.
 

[Ahab]

7 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

"Resurrected beings don't, and can't, become mortal."
Says who?  They have power to lay down their life and take it up again.
Brigham taught that's exactly what happened in the garden.

The rest of your post, while subject to your usual vague way of phrasing things, I think I agree with completely.
 

The Adam and Eve that are mentioned in the Bible were not resurrected beings previous to them becoming mortal.  They were immortal, like Jesus before he became mortal, but they as yet had never been resurrected.

But, yes, because of our Lord's atonement and resurrection, they did gain the power to lay down their life (which would be their mortal life or mortal body) and take it up again, as a resurrected body, as Jesus did. 

And now neither they nor Jesus can ever be mortal again.

[JLHPROF]

Just now, Ahab said:

The Adam and Eve that are mentioned in the Bible were not resurrected beings previous to them becoming mortal.  They were immortal, like Jesus before he became mortal, but they as yet had never been resurrected.

But, yes, because of our Lord's atonement and resurrection, they did gain the power to lay down their life (which would be their mortal life or mortal body) and take it up again, as a resurrected body, as Jesus did.

And now neither they nor Jesus can ever be mortal again.

Yep, that's the Church teaching today.  That was not the teaching in 19th century Utah.
And that's not what I believe or stated in my long post CV75 requested.
 

[Ahab]

24 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Yep, that's the Church teaching today.  That was not the teaching in 19th century Utah.
And that's not what I believe or stated in my long post CV75 requested.
 

Some people in 19th century Utah taught some things that were not true, kinda like how some people today teach some things that are not true.  Mormon or not.  In Utah or not.  Just because some people teach some things that are not true.

Not everybody in 19th century Utah taught things that were not true, though.  There were people back then who taught what we still teach is true today.

[CV75]

1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

Well, since you asked so nicely.
I think I'll do it as a chronology - I tried typing it as doctrinal points but it was confusing.
In a brainstorming way - with quotes that could be provided but I don't have time to pull right now so I'll just state either SCRIPT, TEMPLE, or PROPHET as source:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. The Eloheim (pl) at the council of Gods direct Jehovah and Michael to "go down" to the new creation.  It is those two who create the world, not Eloheim. (temple, prophet, scripture) 
2. All Gods are resurrected beings else they cannot preside over those with bodies - this includes the Eloheim, Jehovah, and Michael. (prophet)
3. Jehovah (the Lord) is Michael/Adam's Father and probably his Savior from a previous creation, not Jesus Christ. (prophet)
4. Immortal resurrected Adam & Eve partake of the "fruit" and become mortal allowing physical bodies for spirit children, including the premortal Christ. (prophet, temple)
5. Adam, the Father, has power to take up his immortality after falling again, just as Christ will do, doing nothing he did not see the Father do. (prophet, scripture)
6. Adam (Heavenly Father) is the initial head of the Church of the Firstborn (scripture - Abraham 1:3)
7. Christ comes to earth, atones, dies and is resurrected.  (scripture etc)
8. The resurrected Christ is now called Jehovah and Lord (scripture D&C 110)
9. We come to earth, and as we are told in the temple, are to consider ourselves Adams/Eves.  (temple)
10. The resurrected Christ as Jehovah is to inherit this earth and all of us from the Father as the Church of the Firstborn, prob at Adam-Ondi-Ahman. (scripture, prophet)
11. Christ, now known as Jehovah, by virtue of having us as heirs, becomes our "Father" as described in the Book of Mormon (scripture)
12. Members of this Church of the Firstborn are all Kings and Priests unto God (Christ) and His Father (Adam), making Christ King of Kings and Lord of Lords and Christ the new head of the Church of the Firstborn.  (scripture)
Just as Jehovah at the creation had Adam, which is many to create worlds with and as Jehovah (the Lord) said "worlds without number have I created" (scripture)

Move to the next creation

13. Now our Christ who is Jehovah rules and reigns over us as Adams and Eves and the whole process starts again. (prophet)
14. Christ Jehovah likely creates the first world for his posterity, doing as he saw his Heavenly Father Adam do.
15. We then as Adam/Michaels follow our Jehovah (Jesus) and create our own earths and our Jehovah the Lord will also say "worlds without number" has he created through his Adams which are many.  (scripture)
16. And the pattern continues eternally.
 

Do you see where I am going here? Or I am not being very clear.
It is Orson Hyde's drawing of King of Kings and Lord of Lords.  We move as a single group, a family Celestial Kingdom.  This is why those who are in the Terrestrial can never catch up and go where the Celestial are, but their kingdom may yet progress to a Celestial level through ministration of the Celestial.

The Eloheim (council of the Gods) will do just as is shown in the temple - designate Jehovah and Michael to go create worlds.
Christ will be the Jehovah of the next creation.
We will be the Michaels/Adams who go to earth and populate it.  Christ may well get to do this first for his posterity that we may do as he did.
And the cycle continues.

Thank you very much -- I will take a look at this summary. I've seen some of the original statements about it here and there over the years, and so I can understand the references you're making.

[CV75]

2 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

And the cycle continues.

In this doctrine, can a Spirit preside over mortals, for example, could the pre-mortal Jesus have presided over the dispensations prior to establishing the Church in the Meridian of Time?

According to your summary, Jehovah is a resurrected being and Michael is His resurrected son, who will in turn someday become a Jehovah with a resurrected son, or a Michael. Jehovah, under the authority of the Council (Eloheim) and directed by Elohim, takes other sons (Michaels) to do the same thing in other worlds. He also creates spirit children that will enter mortality through the Michaels in these worlds. Does Jehovah become an Elohim, directing the activities of other Jehovahs and Michaels under the auspices of the Council (Eloheim)?

Since we all benefit from the power of the Redemption, is it really necessary for a person to return to a mortal earth as an “Only Begotten Son of God” and carry out an infinite and eternal sacrifice in order to be granted power to raise the dead? For example, can we do what we see the Father do by being Saviors on Mount Zion, and thus become Michaels, Jehovahs and Elohims on a Council of Eloheim, without necessarily returning to an earth to be that generation’s divine and eternal sacrifice, relying solely on the merits of Christ in our behalf?

Is it correct to say that this doctrine teaches that while each Jehovah presides over worlds without number, each Michael is an “Adam” for only one, and each Jehovah was a Sacrificial Lamb for only one world or set of worlds before progressing to oversee worlds with Michaels? For example, Adam when resurrected will become a Jehovah for many worlds and each of us when resurrected will become his Michaels (and thus “re-mortalized” Adams) for one world; and once we become exalted from this world, assume the role of Jehovah, directing Michaels to become Adams?

Edited June 23, 2016 by CV75

[JLHPROF]

13 hours ago, CV75 said:

In this doctrine, can a Spirit preside over mortals, for example, could the pre-mortal Jesus have presided over the dispensations prior to establishing the Church in the Meridian of Time?

You do ask questions that can't be answered with just a few words.   (That's not a bad thing).

• Daniel in his seventh chapter speaks of the Ancient of days; he means the oldest man, our Father Adam, Michael, he will call his children together and hold a council with them to prepare them for the coming of the Son of Man. He (Adam) is the father of the human family, and presides over the spirits of all men, and all that have had the keys must stand before him in this grand council. This may take place before some of us leave this stage of action. The Son of Man stands before him, and there is given him glory and dominion. Adam delivers up his stewardship to Christ, that which was delivered to him as holding the keys of the universe, but retains his standing as head of the human family. (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.157)

So, when does Christ receive his dominion over all the keys from each dispensation?  After each dispensation is turned over to Adam, then it is given to Christ.

According to your summary, Jehovah is a resurrected being and Michael is His resurrected son, who will in turn someday become a Jehovah with a resurrected son, or a Michael. Jehovah, under the authority of the Council (Eloheim) and directed by Elohim, takes other sons (Michaels) to do the same thing in other worlds. He also creates spirit children that will enter mortality through the Michaels in these worlds. Does Jehovah become an Elohim, directing the activities of other Jehovahs and Michaels under the auspices of the Council (Eloheim)?

Eloheim is the council of the Gods, not a rank above Jehovahs and Michaels.  Jehovahs and Michaels are members of the Eloheim.  They are all Gods.  And yes, I would say that Jehovah may eventually preside in the Eloheim over other Gods performing the work of Jehovah. 

• “What did Jesus do? Why I do the things I saw my Father do when worlds came rolling into existence. My Father worked out his kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do the same; and when I get my kingdom, I shall present it to my Father, so that he may obtain kingdom upon kingdom, and it will exalt him in glory. He will then take a higher exaltation, and I will take his place, and thereby become exalted myself.” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Pages 347-8)

Since we all benefit from the power of the Redemption, is it really necessary for a person to return to a mortal earth as an “Only Begotten Son of God” and carry out an infinite and eternal sacrifice in order to be granted power to raise the dead? For example, can we do what we see the Father do by being Saviors on Mount Zion, and thus become Michaels, Jehovahs and Elohims on a Council of Eloheim, without necessarily returning to an earth to be that generation’s divine and eternal sacrifice, relying solely on the merits of Christ in our behalf?

No I don't think we need to be a Christ to gain power to raise the dead nor to become Eloheim.  But I know what you are saying and I do know someone who believes that.  I don't and I don't think we all need to atone on a cross to become a God.  D&C 132 makes that clear in vs 19.  You don't have to be a Bishop before you are allowed to be Stake President.
Resurrection is an ordinance however and we do need to be resurrected to perform it.

• The procedure is that as one cannot baptize himself, nor can he baptize others until he himself is baptized and ordained, so one cannot resurrect himself, but will be called forth by someone in authority. Men will be given the keys of this ordinance after they are resurrected, and then they can resurrect others. Although these brethren do not say it, I expect that a man with the keys will resurrect his family--it is a patriarchal thing. President Young also indicates that Joseph Smith will be the first person resurrected in this dispensation, and this will extend back all the way to the meridian of time. Joseph Smith will receive the keys and give them to others.  - Spencer W. Kimball CR April 1977

Is it correct to say that this doctrine teaches that while each Jehovah presides over worlds without number, each Michael is an “Adam” for only one, and each Jehovah was a Sacrificial Lamb for only one world or set of worlds before progressing to oversee worlds with Michaels? For example, Adam when resurrected will become a Jehovah for many worlds and each of us when resurrected will become his Michaels (and thus “re-mortalized” Adams) for one world; and once we become exalted from this world, assume the role of Jehovah, directing Michaels to become Adams?

That's a little above my pay grade.  But I am familiar with the challenging scenario you are posing.  I have heard others pose it as a challenge to the kind of theology President Young (and those others I quote) espouse.  And I don't think anything has been revealed by any prophetic teaching, scripture, or temple ordinance concerning what will happen beyond Christ as Jehovah and us as Adam and Eve in the next creationary period. 
But I think Joseph's principle "it will exalt him in glory. He will then take a higher exaltation, and I will take his place," could still apply.  Also, D&C 130:10 things pertaining to a higher order of kingdoms will be made known

 

 

 

 

Edited June 24, 2016 by JLHPROF

[salgare]

On 6/22/2016 at 5:26 PM, JLHPROF said:

Virtually nobody on this board will agree with me on this.

But Brigham DID teach an awful lot about Heavenly Mother when he identified her as Eve.
If you accept Eve as Heavenly Mother you understand SO much more about her, her role, her authority, our potential to become like her (consider yourselves as though you are Adams and Eves), and so much more.
Brigham Young, Eliza R. Snow, Heber C. Kimball, John Taylor, Wilford Woodruff, and their contemporaries all did this and women had a much larger role in the Church under those teachings than the century that followed their removal.

I challenge members just one time, just once, go through an endowment session and view Adam/yourself as Heavenly Father and Eve/yourself as Heavenly Mother and see if the endowment isn't so much deeper than previously realized.

It was the ending of Adam-God that pushed Heavenly Mother back into obscurity.  And I still to this day after all our discussions have no idea why the Church had such a problem with this doctrine.  It was taught for about 50 years and then dropped with no explanation.  It's not like there is anything offensive in the doctrine.

The endowment is a future promise, not a history lesson.  The old lecture at the veil made the concept you speak of here very clear. 

[JLHPROF]

1 hour ago, salgare said:

The endowment is a future promise, not a history lesson.  The old lecture at the veil made the concept you speak of here very clear. 

The endowment is neither.  The endowment is the pattern by which existence operates, both in the past (as it was done on other worlds) and in the future.
It establishes how our existence works, always has, and always will.

[CV75]

9 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

So, when does Christ receive his dominion over all the keys from each dispensation?  After each dispensation is turned over to Adam, then it is given to Christ.

***

Eloheim is the council of the Gods, not a rank above Jehovahs and Michaels.  Jehovahs and Michaels are members of the Eloheim.  They are all Gods.  And yes, I would say that Jehovah may eventually preside in the Eloheim over other Gods performing the work of Jehovah. 

***

No I don't think we need to be a Christ to gain power to raise the dead nor to become Eloheim.

***

But I think Joseph's principle "it will exalt him in glory. He will then take a higher exaltation, and I will take his place," could still apply.  Also, D&C 130:10 things pertaining to a higher order of kingdoms will be made known

Thank you for the clarifications. I was using “Elohim” (singular) to describe a Person who is part of the Eloheim and who might act a liaison or president to the smaller Jehovah and Michael council.

It seems from this doctrine that Christ is a pre-mortal spirit child of Michael-as-Heavenly Father, then a mortal descendant of Michael-as-Adam (through His earthly mother Mary). Who is Christ the Only Begotten Son of: Michael as an exalted man; Jehovah, Michael’s father; or, another member of the Eloheim? If it was Michael as an exalted man, how did Michael translate from the corruptible Adam to the exalted Michael before Jesus broke the bands of death? If it was Jehovah, then Michael as a resurrected son and Christ as a pre-mortal spirit Son are co-existing brothers of two “generations.” Could Christ be Michael’s adopted spirit child?

In the Adam-God doctrine, to whom did Adam pray (his father Jehovah), and to whom did Christ pray? Who initiated the conferral of priesthood keys to the prophets of the various dispensations (Jesus, Moses, and Elias/Elijah gave them to Peter, James, and John).

I’m wondering if I have the following right:

Heavenly Father has spirit children, becomes a Michael who creates a world with a Jehovah, then becomes a paradisaical Adam who falls and becomes a mortal Adam, who through the merits of a Christ becomes (rather, returns to his status as) an exalted being and continues the cycle again as a Heavenly Father.

This same Heavenly Father may instead function as a Jehovah, who creates and presides over a Michael he has begotten (physically, spiritually, and/or through spiritual rebirth as a Christ or through adoption) in the prior cycle. He may continue to have spirit children who may be adopted by the Michael over whom He presides or by other members of the Eloheim.

This same Jehovah, as a member of the Eloheim, may preside over other Jehovah-Michael councils.

Thanks again!

[JAHS]

President Hinckley seemed to agree with the idea of a Mother in Heaven, but that we should not pray to Her:

"I speak of those who advocate the offering of prayers to our Mother in Heaven. I quote from that earlier address: 
“This [practice] began in private prayer and is beginning to spread to prayers offered in some of our meetings. “It was Eliza R. Snow who wrote the words: ‘Truth is reason; truth eternal / Tells me I’ve a mother there.’ (Hymns, 1985, no. 292.)
“It has been said that the Prophet Joseph Smith made no correction to what Sister Snow had written. Therefore, we have a Mother in Heaven. Therefore, [some assume] that we may appropriately pray to her.
“Logic and reason would certainly suggest that if we have a Father in Heaven, we have a Mother in Heaven. That doctrine rests well with me.
“However, in light of the instruction we have received from the Lord Himself, I regard it as inappropriate for anyone in the Church to pray to our Mother in Heaven."
Daughters of God

[JLHPROF]

1 hour ago, CV75 said:

Thank you for the clarifications. I was using “Elohim” (singular) to describe a Person who is part of the Eloheim and who might act a liaison or president to the smaller Jehovah and Michael council.

As in:
 It read first, “The head one of the Gods brought forth the Gods.” That is the true meaning of the words. Baurau signifies to bring forth. If you do not believe it, you do not believe the learned man of God. Learned men can teach you no more than what I have told you. Thus the head God brought forth the Gods in the grand council.  - Joseph Smith

It seems from this doctrine that Christ is a pre-mortal spirit child of Michael-as-Heavenly Father, then a mortal descendant of Michael-as-Adam (through His earthly mother Mary).

Yes.

Who is Christ the Only Begotten Son of: Michael as an exalted man; Jehovah, Michael’s father; or, another member of the Eloheim? If it was Michael as an exalted man, how did Michael translate from the corruptible Adam to the exalted Michael before Jesus broke the bands of death? If it was Jehovah, then Michael as a resurrected son and Christ as a pre-mortal spirit Son are co-existing brothers of two “generations.” Could Christ be Michael’s adopted spirit child?

Christ is the only begotten of the Father - Michael/Adam.

In the Adam-God doctrine, to whom did Adam pray (his father Jehovah), and to whom did Christ pray? Who initiated the conferral of priesthood keys to the prophets of the various dispensations (Jesus, Moses, and Elias/Elijah gave them to Peter, James, and John).

Adam prayed to "the Lord" so Jehovah.
Christ prayed to "the Father" so Adam/Michael.
As for initiation of priesthood keys -
“The Priesthood is an everlasting principle, and existed with God from eternity, and will to eternity, without beginning of days or end of years.  The keys have to be brought from heaven whenever the Gospel is sent. When they are revealed from heaven, it is by Adam’s authority."  Joseph Smith
So Adam directs the restoration of priesthood (presumably keys and ordinances).

I’m wondering if I have the following right:
Heavenly Father has spirit children, becomes a Michael who creates a world with a Jehovah, then becomes a paradisaical Adam who falls and becomes a mortal Adam, who through the merits of a Christ becomes (rather, returns to his status as) an exalted being and continues the cycle again as a Heavenly Father.This same Heavenly Father may instead function as a Jehovah, who creates and presides over a Michael he has begotten (physically, spiritually, and/or through spiritual rebirth as a Christ or through adoption) in the prior cycle. He may continue to have spirit children who may be adopted by the Michael over whom He presides or by other members of the Eloheim.
This same Jehovah, as a member of the Eloheim, may preside over other Jehovah-Michael councils.

Yes, but perhaps sequentially, not concurrently.  And I'm not sure Adam required the atonement to regain his celestial glory.  Brigham said he did not die but as Christ said, had power within himself to lay down his life and take it up again.

 

[longview]

2 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

The endowment is neither.  The endowment is the pattern by which existence operates, both in the past (as it was done on other worlds) and in the future.
It establishes how our existence works, always has, and always will.

NO.  The term "endowment" means to be given greater capabilities, to acquire more attributes, more power, etc.  It is a process, NOT simply existence.  It is a way to progress from one estate to a higher estate.  We existed as intelligences before becoming spirit children of HF.  We agreed to undergo the "Plan of Happiness" (mortal experience) in order to learn what it takes to become LIKE our Father in Heaven.  If we are faithful then we will be resurrected to the highest degree in the Celestial Kingdom.

[JLHPROF]

10 minutes ago, longview said:

NO.  The term "endowment" means to be given greater capabilities, to acquire more attributes, more power, etc.  It is a process, NOT simply existence.  It is a way to progress from one estate to a higher estate.  We existed as intelligences before becoming spirit children of HF.  We agreed to undergo the "Plan of Happiness" (mortal experience) in order to learn what it takes to become LIKE our Father in Heaven.  If we are faithful then we will be resurrected to the highest degree in the Celestial Kingdom.

No, the endowment has two parts.
It teaches us the pattern of existence - what was done, what is being done, and what will be done again.  The same pattern of the eternities.
It endows us with power by teaching us the signs and tokens necessary first to pray and receive a direct answer by introducing ourselves to God, and then by teaching us how to walk past the angels and sentinels through the veil into the presence of God.

The "endowment" is the gift of knowledge and power.  As Joseph Smith said, a man is saved no faster than he gains knowledge.

The same pattern followed by us that is followed by Adam and Eve in the Adam-God teachings of passing through the Telestial/Terrestrial/and eventually entering through the veil into the Celestial world and THEN being given charge to remove their immortality (robes of glory) and go back into the lone and dreary world and multiply and replenish the earth.
What we are living now is a model on what we will be doing as Adams and Eves - achieving our Celestial glory, then divesting ourselves of it, placing a veil upon us and returning to the lone and dreary world to multiply and replenish so that our posterity can do the same.

The endowment is the pattern of eternity.

[CV75]

1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

And I'm not sure Adam required the atonement to regain his celestial glory.  Brigham said he did not die but as Christ said, had power within himself to lay down his life and take it up again.

So far my understanding is tracking along the lines of the Wikipedia article; do you think it is a good representation? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam%E2%80%93God_doctrine

 

I can see how the veil could separate Adam from an awareness of his power to return to his exalted state, but what does that say about the reality of his faith, exercising it in Christ’s Redemption, not realizing he didn’t really need it for himself, unwittingly modeling for us a faith in Christ that he personally didn’t need to exercise? (Such inherent, systemic beguilement doesn’t seem consistent with an authentically divine plan). Or that Adam in time pierced the veil and he and his posterity came to know that he was actually Heavenly Father, but this knowledge was lost, with the lost “book of remembrance” and scripture being replaced with non-historical retellings of the temple rite, which is our canon.

What was the active role of the pre-mortal Jesus carried out in the earth from the time of Adam to His advent in the Meridian of Time? Adam learned and knew of Him. From the Book of Mormon we know that He at least spoke with the brother of Jared and Nephi, some 1,000 years apart.

[CV75]

21 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

The same pattern followed by us that is followed by Adam and Eve in the Adam-God teachings of passing through the Telestial/Terrestrial/and eventually entering through the veil into the Celestial world and THEN being given charge to remove their immortality (robes of glory) and go back into the lone and dreary world and multiply and replenish the earth.

Is this charge verbalized at any point in the session before patrons exit the Celestial Room?

[salgare]

4 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

The endowment is neither.  The endowment is the pattern by which existence operates, both in the past (as it was done on other worlds) and in the future.
It establishes how our existence works, always has, and always will.

Sure it's a pattern you are promised to become a part of.  The biggest promise in the endowment, based on your personal "faithfulness" is found in the initiatory, at least used to be.   I understand it's gone through at least two major changes since I was the Initiatory Director in the Provo Temple.  For this topic, the women don't even require the faithfulness clause as the men do as they are declared clean, every wit.

Kings and Priests, Queens and Priestesses.  With an interesting aspect being that promise is limited to a given house.

Why would you not consider this a future promise?

[JLHPROF]

14 minutes ago, CV75 said:

Is this charge verbalized at any point in the session before patrons exit the Celestial Room?

Nothing is said in the Celestial room, but those considering themselves now resurrected Adams and Eves do not stay in the Celestial room.
Those Celestial beings are taken to be sealed and there they receive the charge to multiply and replenish the earth.

Moses 2:28 And I, God, blessed them, and said unto them: Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

The pattern is clear.

Actual Adam and Eve
1. Before the Fall are charged to multiply and replenish the earth
2. Fall from immortality to mortality with a veil over them
3. Go out into the lone and dreary world
4. Pass through the stages of mortality
5. Receive/regain more glory and knowledge as they progress
6. Pass through the veil back to the presence of the Gods
7. Enter the Celestial Kingdom
8. Receive the blessings of eternal lives which includes posterity and dominion
and begin again (or move to something higher).

Those who are to "consider themselves as Adam and Eve" in the temple
1. Created in mortality
2. Pass through the stages of mortality
3. Receive more glory and knowledge as they progress (things received in the temple)
4. Pass through the veil back to the presence of the Gods
5. Enter the Celestial Kingdom
6. Receive the blessings of Abraham - future promises of posterity and dominion (sealing ceremony)
7. Are charged to multiply and replenish the earth - sealing ceremony
8. Fall from immortality to mortality with a veil over them  (symbolic veil)
9. Go out into the lone and dreary world
10. Pass through the stages of mortality with their posterity (our actual children)
11. Receive/regain more glory and knowledge as they progress
12. Pass through the veil back to the presence of the Gods (actual death)
13. Enter the Celestial Kingdom
14. Receive the blessings of eternal lives which includes posterity and dominion
and become actual Adams and Eves

Our lives here are practice for eternity.

[JLHPROF]

10 minutes ago, salgare said:

Sure it's a pattern you are promised to become a part of.  The biggest promise in the endowment, based on your personal "faithfulness" is found in the initiatory, at least used to be.   I understand it's gone through at least two major changes since I was the Initiatory Director in the Provo Temple.  For this topic, the women don't even require the faithfulness clause as the men do as they are declared clean, every wit.

Kings and Priests, Queens and Priestesses.  With an interesting aspect being that promise is limited to a given house.

Why would you not consider this a future promise?

I do consider it a future promise.
But the endowment also bestows current blessings in addition to the future promises.  Not everything there is symbolic.
And the endowment also represents what was done on prior worlds.

As I said, the endowment represents the pattern of eternity.  Past, present, and future.

 

[CV75]

29 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Nothing is said in the Celestial room, but those considering themselves now resurrected Adams and Eves do not stay in the Celestial room.
Those Celestial beings are taken to be sealed and there they receive the charge to multiply and replenish the earth.
***
Our lives here are practice for eternity.

Yes, so while the sealing ceremony, for us, must be performed in mortality, it is still eternal in application. The command to multiply and replenish the earth is kept in the “continuation of the seeds,” which the covenant allows to be carried out in various estates, such as a couple bringing forth pre-mortal spirits, paradisaical beings, mortal beings (how we got here), “reborn” mortals (through missionary work), post-mortal spirits (through the redemptive work), resurrection (an ordinance), etc. As you say, some will interpret their temple experience from an Adam-God doctrinal paradigm.

You may have missed this post: Posted 1 hour ago

[consiglieri]

On ‎6‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 4:00 PM, JLHPROF said:

At the same time Coltrin was recollecting this 40 years after the fact and was the only source.  Not much to go on for canonization, even by my standards, although I have no reason to doubt his truthfulness.  It's not like he benefited from the story or the story contradicted any teaching of the day.

My recollection from research I did a few years back is that Zebedee Coltrin is an unreliable witness.

I believe it was Coltrin who, among other things, stated (again 45-years after the fact) about how Joseph Smith said that blacks should not have the Priesthood.  Remember that one?

I just did some research and found the item:

Quote

1879: Zebedee Coltrin claims that in 1834, Joseph Smith received a revelation that Blacks are not to be ordained to the priesthood. Zebedee Coltrin also claims that Abel was dropped from the quorum of Seventy when Joseph Smith Jr. learned that Abel was Black. Apostle Joseph F. Smith Challenges Coltrin’s claim. He shows two certificates of Abel’s re-ordination to the office of Seventy. Brother Coltrin's memory is shown to be unreliable: His claimed date (1834) for Joseph Smith's announcing the alleged ban is impossible, since Coltrin himself ordained Abel a Seventy in 1836.

http://www.mormonstories.org/top10toughissues/blacks.html

 

[consiglieri]

20 hours ago, Ahab said:

Yep, pretty basic, and we still teach all of that... except for the parts you got wrong.  Resurrected beings don't, and can't, become mortal. 

I think it unwise to be so dogmatic about something you know nothing about.

Who says a resurrected being cannot become mortal?  Are you saying that God, a resurrected being, does not have the power to become mortal if he should choose to?

It would seem a strange theology to limit God's power in this way.

And there is always that strange statement in the Book of Mormon (of all places!) where it twice says that God could cease to be God.

If this is to be taken literally, and God should cease to be God, what kind of being would God become?

Something less than God, apparently . . .

[JLHPROF]

11 minutes ago, consiglieri said:

My recollection from research I did a few years back is that Zebedee Coltrin is an unreliable witness.

I believe it was Coltrin who, among other things, stated (again 45-years after the fact) about how Joseph Smith said that blacks should not have the Priesthood.  Remember that one?

I just did some research and found the item:

http://www.mormonstories.org/top10toughissues/blacks.html

 

As far as the Elijah Abel ordinations go:

1. The claim Joseph ordained Elijah an Elder has only one unreliable source to it.
2. There is no doubt Coltrin ordained him a Seventy.  His claim was that Joseph later revoked that by revelation.  That is the part that is definitely questionable/unreliable.