April 2016 GC talk on "Choices"

[theplains]

In the April 2016 General Conference talk "Choices", President Monson said, "As we contemplate 
the decisions we make in our lives each day—whether to make this choice or that choice—if we 
choose Christ, we will have made the correct choice."

It seems religious groups teach a variety of things about Jesus Christ of Nazareth.  Paul warned
us about this in 2 Corinthians 11:4 when he was worried that "as the serpent beguiled Eve through 
his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ ... For if 
he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, ... ye might well bear with 
him." 

What types of teachings about Christ would constitute this "another Jesus?"

Can your choice to put your faith in this "another Jesus" (a false Christ) still still you?

Thanks,
Jim

[Duncan]

I am not sure I follow but I choose Christ when I read my scriptures, help someone, pray-I don't follow Christ when I listen to the Ramones on sunday when I should be listening to old show tunes and drinking milk

[rodheadlee]

53 minutes ago, theplains said:

In the April 2016 General Conference talk "Choices", President Monson said, "As we contemplate 
the decisions we make in our lives each day—whether to make this choice or that choice—if we 
choose Christ, we will have made the correct choice."

It seems religious groups teach a variety of things about Jesus Christ of Nazareth.  Paul warned
us about this in 2 Corinthians 11:4 when he was worried that "as the serpent beguiled Eve through 
his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ ... For if 
he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, ... ye might well bear with 
him." 

What types of teachings about Christ would constitute this "another Jesus?"

Can your choice to put your faith in this "another Jesus" (a false Christ) still still you?

Thanks,
Jim

The prosperity gospel comes to mind. Creaflo Dollar, Joel Osteen, Robert Schuyler (from the 1970s) these guys don't preach the Atonement of Christ, Repentance, Baptism, laying on of the hands to receive the Holy Ghost. They preach send your money to me and God will make you prosper. They don't preach Christ at all in my opinion.

P.S.you might want to edit your post.

[JAHS]

1 hour ago, theplains said:

What types of teachings about Christ would constitute this "another Jesus?"

That He is part of a triune God, not a separate being of flesh and bone like His Father.
That God the Father came down to earth in the form of Jesus Christ.
That He was begotten by the Holy Ghost and not God the Father
That he was only a prophet and not a God or the son of God
That He no longer communicates through prophets

[Russell C McGregor]

2 hours ago, theplains said:

In the April 2016 General Conference talk "Choices", President Monson said, "As we contemplate 
the decisions we make in our lives each day—whether to make this choice or that choice—if we 
choose Christ, we will have made the correct choice."

It seems religious groups teach a variety of things about Jesus Christ of Nazareth.  Paul warned
us about this in 2 Corinthians 11:4 when he was worried that "as the serpent beguiled Eve through 
his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ ... For if 
he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, ... ye might well bear with 
him." 

What types of teachings about Christ would constitute this "another Jesus?"

Can your choice to put your faith in this "another Jesus" (a false Christ) still still you?

Thanks,
Jim

I wonder: is there any talk topic that a really determined anti-Mormon couldn't use to segue into some bit of boilerplate anti-Mormon propaganda?

That is really unrelated to the ostensible topic at hand, as above?

Let's see: for a test case, we could take Elder Patrick Kearon's talk. He begins by quoting Matthew 25:35-36. Those are the words of Jesus. But was it the "Real Jesus[TM]" of "mainstream" (i.e. creedal) Christian thought, or the "Mormon Jesus" that he was quoting?

Yep, it looks like the ThePlains method can work every time.

[Robert F. Smith]

5 hours ago, theplains said:

In the April 2016 General Conference talk "Choices", President Monson said, "As we contemplate 
the decisions we make in our lives each day—whether to make this choice or that choice—if we 
choose Christ, we will have made the correct choice."

It seems religious groups teach a variety of things about Jesus Christ of Nazareth.  Paul warned
us about this in 2 Corinthians 11:4 when he was worried that "as the serpent beguiled Eve through 
his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ ... For if 
he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, ... ye might well bear with 
him." 

What types of teachings about Christ would constitute this "another Jesus?"

Can your choice to put your faith in this "another Jesus" (a false Christ) still still you?

Thanks,
Jim

I don't know whether another Jesus would still still me, Jim, but I sure appreciate your reminding me of what Pres Monson said.  And let the Holy Spirit guide.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Robert F. Smith

[theplains]

On 11/04/2016 at 11:30 PM, Robert F. Smith said:

I don't know whether another Jesus would still still me, Jim, but I sure appreciate your reminding me of what Pres Monson said.  And let the Holy Spirit guide.

Oh man.  Totally missed that grammar mistake  I meant "still save".  Hopefully the others captured the intended meaning.

Jim

[theplains]

On 10/04/2016 at 7:55 PM, JAHS said:

That He is part of a triune God, not a separate being of flesh and bone like His Father.
That God the Father came down to earth in the form of Jesus Christ.
That He was begotten by the Holy Ghost and not God the Father
That he was only a prophet and not a God or the son of God
That He no longer communicates through prophets

What about a Jesus who became a God?

Jim

[JAHS]

5 minutes ago, theplains said:

What about a Jesus who became a God?

Jim

Jesus has always been the God of this world in some form, whether in spirit form or immortal body of flesh and bone.

[theplains]

3 minutes ago, JAHS said:

Jesus has always been the God of this world in some form, whether in spirit form or immortal body of flesh and bone.

An LDS teaching manual says, "By obedience and devotion to the truth he [Jesus] attained 
that pinnacle of intelligence which ranked him as a God, as the Lord Omnipotent, while 
yet in his pre-existent state" (Religion 430-431 - Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual, 
2004).  In simple terms, he became a God.

Thanks,
Jim

[JAHS]

14 minutes ago, theplains said:

An LDS teaching manual says, "By obedience and devotion to the truth he [Jesus] attained 
that pinnacle of intelligence which ranked him as a God, as the Lord Omnipotent, while 
yet in his pre-existent state" (Religion 430-431 - Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual, 
2004).  In simple terms, he became a God.

Thanks,
Jim

That's true but He could also have still been considered God as an intelligence before his spirit was created by God the Father.
Not as simple as you think. We really don't know much about this, nor do we really know how correct that statement in the manual is. It came from Bruce R McConkie (Mormon Doctrine) who has not always been right about a few things. This statement is a favorite of Mormon Critics.
 

[Robert F. Smith]

43 minutes ago, theplains said:

Oh man.  Totally missed that grammar mistake  I meant "still save".  Hopefully the others captured the intended meaning.

Jim

Well, then that is simple enough, Jim:  There is only one Jesus and he saves everyone.  Is there any other Jesus?

[Russell C McGregor]

13 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Well, then that is simple enough, Jim:  There is only one Jesus and he saves everyone.  Is there any other Jesus?

Which gives rise to a whole host of questions. How many Jesuses are there? Or should the plural of Jesus be Jesi? And does that mean that the singular form of Jedi should be Jedus?

The notion of "another Jesus" is silly. But that doesn't mean it couldn't be fun.

[Bobbieaware]

33 minutes ago, theplains said:

An LDS teaching manual says, "By obedience and devotion to the truth he [Jesus] attained 
that pinnacle of intelligence which ranked him as a God, as the Lord Omnipotent, while 
yet in his pre-existent state" (Religion 430-431 - Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual, 
2004).  In simple terms, he became a God.

Thanks,
Jim

If Christ was the omniscient and omnipotent God before he came to dwell on earth, how is it possible this same perfect God (who already possessed all wisdom) was somehow able to INCREASE in wisdom, LEARN how to be obedient, and BECOME perfect?

52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man. (Luke 2)

 

and...

 

8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; (Hebrews 5)

You see, you believe precisely the same thing we Latter-day Saints believe. The only difference between your position and ours is that you believe Christ went through a learning process once, while we Latter-day Saints believe Christ went through learning processes twice -- first in the preexistence, and then again in mortality. The concept is the same. We are not so far apart after all.

[theplains]

On 13/04/2016 at 8:28 PM, Robert F. Smith said:

Well, then that is simple enough, Jim:  There is only one Jesus and he saves everyone.  Is there any other Jesus?

Paul taught so. See 2 Corinthians 11:4.

Thanks,Jim 

[theplains]

On 13/04/2016 at 8:23 PM, JAHS said:

That's true but He could also have still been considered God as an intelligence before his spirit was created by God the Father.

If this LDS version of Jesus was always a God, he would not need to attain some level of 
intelligence to be 'ranked' as a God.

Thanks,
Jim

[JAHS]

12 minutes ago, theplains said:

If this LDS version of Jesus was always a God, he would not need to attain some level of 
intelligence to be 'ranked' as a God.

Thanks,
Jim

Like I said Bruce R McConkie was the source for that quote and we haven't had enough revelation given to us on the subject to make any statement about this with certainty. And to confuse things even more the scriptures tell us that He "increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man." (Luke 2:52)

If He was and is God why would He need to increase in favor with God?

[Robert F. Smith]

33 minutes ago, theplains said:

Paul taught so. See 2 Corinthians 11:4.

Thanks,Jim 

No, he didn't, Jim.  There was only one Jesus for Paul.  In II Cor 11:4 he talks about preaching something other than the one and only Jesus -- apparently a counterfeit version of Jesus (an anti-Christ).  He also speaks of counterfeit apostles, with Satan himself being transformed into an angel of light (11:13-14).

But how do we know which are the counterfeit versions of Jesus and his apostles?  How do we define the real thing?  How do we define the counterfeit versions?  Are the many disagreements about such fundamentals the source of rampant denominationalism?

[Robert F. Smith]

22 minutes ago, JAHS said:

Like I said Bruce R McConkie was the source for that quote and we haven't had enough revelation given to us on the subject to make any statement about this with certainty. And to confuse things even more the scriptures tell us that He "increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man." (Luke 2:52)

If He was and is God why would He need to increase in favor with God?

Yeh, and what is eternal progression?

[Believing]

To understand  fully what "Paul" is saying, you must first know his audience. Paul was always dealing with branches of the church who had differing problems and doctrinal issues. I am to tired tonight to do the research, but as with Paull many of his teaching must be understood in context. 

So, answering this question may need some study.

theplains, question was:

"What types of teachings about Christ would constitute this "another Jesus?" "

"Evangelicals love to use this scripture as a weapon on other faiths most particularly, Mormons and Catholics. you all know the weapon; "you're not Christian."

[theplains]

On 15/04/2016 at 7:56 PM, JAHS said:

Like I said Bruce R McConkie was the source for that quote and we haven't had enough revelation given to us on the subject to make any statement about this with certainty. And to confuse things even more the scriptures tell us that He "increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man." (Luke 2:52)

If He was and is God why would He need to increase in favor with God?

As a man. He was both God and man.

Jim

[theplains]

On 16/04/2016 at 8:18 PM, Robert F. Smith said:

But how do we know which are the counterfeit versions of Jesus and his apostles?  How do we define the real thing?  How do we define the counterfeit versions?  Are the many disagreements about such fundamentals the source of rampant denominationalism?

The real Christ is described in the scriptures, the Eternal God.  Some examples of false Christs 
are Michael the Archangel, Jesus as only a man, and a Jesus who progressed from a spirit child 
of heavenly Mother and Father into a God.  We are to beware of the those who preach a
counterfeit Christ.  Even Jesus warned that false Christs would come.

When one follows man-made teachings of God's true nature, they can be led astray.

Thanks,
Jim

[Bobbieaware]

4 hours ago, theplains said:

The real Christ is described in the scriptures, the Eternal God.  Some examples of false Christs 
are Michael the Archangel, Jesus as only a man, and a Jesus who progressed from a spirit child 
of heavenly Mother and Father into a God.  We are to beware of the those who preach a
counterfeit Christ.  Even Jesus warned that false Christs would come.

When one follows man-made teachings of God's true nature, they can be led astray.

Thanks,
Jim

In Mormon theology, Christ was the eternal God before he was born in the spirit world as a spirit son of Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother, in much the same way he was God before he was born as the fleshly offspring of Heavenly Father and Mary on this earth. Christ didn't stop being the eternal God after his birth on earth, even though he grew in wisdom and learned how to become perfect through the things which he suffered. Similarly, Christ's learning experiences in the pre-earth life do not negate the fact that he was the eternal God before his birth as a organized spirit. We are not as far apart as you think we are. 

Edited April 17, 2016 by Bobbieaware

[Robert F. Smith]

4 hours ago, theplains said:

The real Christ is described in the scriptures, the Eternal God.  Some examples of false Christs 
are Michael the Archangel, Jesus as only a man, and a Jesus who progressed from a spirit child 
of heavenly Mother and Father into a God.  We are to beware of the those who preach a
counterfeit Christ.  Even Jesus warned that false Christs would come.

When one follows man-made teachings of God's true nature, they can be led astray.

Thanks,
Jim

That is all well and good, Jim, but you still haven't explained how one can differentiate one set of denominational claims over against another.  An empty appeal to the Scriptures doesn't really help, since 2 Peter 1:19-21 declares that we must depend on the "more sure word of prophecy," but since "no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation," Scripture can only be interpreted by the same power which gave it:  The Holy Ghost.  Not by the will of denominational man.  After all, men often claim that "Lo, here is Christ, or there" (Matt 24:23), but all cannot be correct, since they disagree on fundamentals.  The LDS understanding of Jesus Christ is the most authentic because it is backed by prophecy and the Holy Spirit.  Unlike the shattered, multiple, and incoherent versions of Jesus taught by denominational Christianity and Islam, the LDS claims are both coherently scriptural, unitary, and authentically ancient..  Moreover, unlike denominational theology, LDS theology is not in contradiction to logic.

[Russell C McGregor]

9 hours ago, theplains said:

As a man. He was both God and man.

Jim

Was he?

But then you write this:

9 hours ago, theplains said:

When one follows man-made teachings of God's true nature, they can be led astray.

Thanks,
Jim

Don't you know that "both God and man" is a creedal formulation that isn't found in the Bible?

IOW, that it is a man-made teaching?

So it seems that you've been led astray, Jim.