salgare Posted April 7, 2016 Posted April 7, 2016 (edited) 33 minutes ago, cdowis said: Deseret Cattle and Citrus ... "7And He summoned the twelve and began to send them out in pairs, and gave them authority over the unclean spirits; 8and He instructed them that they should take nothing for their journey, except a mere staff-- no bread, no bag, no money in their belt-- 9but to wear sandals; and He added, "Do not put on two tunics." The early church held to this, at the same time they experimented with the United Order. "34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof. " "…27"And who of you by being worried can add a single hour to his life? 28"And why are you worried about clothing? Observe how the lilies of the field grow; they do not toil nor do they spin, 29yet I say to you that not even Solomon in all his glory clothed himself like one of these.… " yep can not serve two masters, but keep convincing yourself that the actions of the church in these regards is what Jesus would do. It seems so obvious. Edited April 7, 2016 by salgare
Kenngo1969 Posted April 7, 2016 Posted April 7, 2016 (edited) On 4/4/2016 at 10:52 PM, salgare said: ... What you will find with apologists is they will always make the critic the enemy, attack their character and encourage you to listen to none other than them. That should be a big red flag to anyone. Which is why no dissent nor diversity of opinion is allowed on this Board. (Salgare, after all, is one of the best Mormon Apologists ™ I know.) Edited April 7, 2016 by Kenngo1969 1
cdowis Posted April 7, 2016 Posted April 7, 2016 (edited) Can we assume that you live in a tent. You walk or use a bicycle to get around. Your place of worship is the forest canopy. Look, I get it. This is just your sense of humor, a joke, and I will treat it as such. The alternative is that you live a very sheltered life, perhaps in a very "special" place where someone takes care of you. Edited April 7, 2016 by cdowis
salgare Posted April 7, 2016 Posted April 7, 2016 1 hour ago, Kenngo1969 said: Which is why no dissent nor diversity of opinion is allowed on this Board. (Salgare, after all, is one of the best Mormon Apologists ™ I know.) The reigns are held pretty tightly, ask Consig
thesometimesaint Posted April 7, 2016 Posted April 7, 2016 On 4/4/2016 at 1:06 AM, canard78 said: I help to run a junior music and drama club. The other day we were asking the juniors what songs they'd like. One said: "I don't mind, I only like the 80s music my dad listens to. Y'know... like the Beatles." I wasn't sure to cry more at the fact that 80s is now synonymous with 60s for a teenager or that several other kids in the group turned round and said: "who?" When I sang a few bars of Yellow Submarine they mostly responded with "oh, that song..." Tragic You know what they call the surviving Beatles? Grandpa. 2
thesometimesaint Posted April 7, 2016 Posted April 7, 2016 On 4/4/2016 at 8:15 AM, Gray said: This is just sad. But I remember being a teenager in the 1990s, and being in 80s music. I thought I was into the "old stuff". But that would be like a teenager today being really into early White Stripes albums and thinking they're listening to "old stuff." Amazing how your idea of "old" changes as you age. Young whippersnapper.
thesometimesaint Posted April 7, 2016 Posted April 7, 2016 On 4/4/2016 at 9:16 AM, Jeanne said: You would be surprised!! They know Paul and Ringo..but who was the one that shot????? When my kids were little, that was a requirement..to name the four Beatles!! Not many today know the name Stuart Sutcliffe. He was the fifth Beatle.
thesometimesaint Posted April 7, 2016 Posted April 7, 2016 (edited) On 4/4/2016 at 3:35 PM, cinepro said: I'm not sure what you think would happen if someone not familiar without knowledge (let alone a testimony) of Church doctrine and history read about the issues presented in the essays, or how the polygamy, Priesthood/Temple ban and Book of Abraham issues could in any way give someone positive feelings towards Church history. But I'm certainly not going to argue the point. Steve Noel, if you're still here, it is recommended that you go to this page and read Church-produced essays that talk about how Joseph Smith married 30+ women, many without his first wife's knowledge or consent (and one who was "several months" shy of her fifteenth birthday), how the Church denied black members of presumed African descent from holding the priesthood (men) or entering the Temples where ceremonies necessary for exaltation are performed (men and women) for decades without even knowing why they were doing it, and how Joseph told the story of his "First Vision" (one of the epochal events in early LDS history) several times with basic elements of the story varying between tellings. Also how Joseph Smith claimed to translate the then-unknown language of Egyptian into the Book of Abraham, but subsequent review has found many questions about what Joseph knew about Egyptian. Apparently it is important that you read up on these subjects in order to fully understand Mormon doctrine and history. While you're at it please explain how most OT prophets had multiple wives. How Mary was 12-13 years old when she conceived Jesus. How Priesthood was limited to just the eldest son of a High Priest from the tribe of Levi. How Saul/Paul couldn't get the basics right about his experience on the road to Damascus. Edited April 7, 2016 by thesometimesaint 1
busybee Posted April 7, 2016 Posted April 7, 2016 On 04/04/2016 at 1:24 AM, salgare said: I assume your position here is one of wondering around in the mists of darkness. I disagree. He is on the path.
salgare Posted April 7, 2016 Posted April 7, 2016 On 4/4/2016 at 4:35 PM, cinepro said: But I'm certainly not going to argue the point. Steve Noel, if you're still here, it is recommended that you go to this page and read Church-produced essays that talk about how Joseph Smith married 30+ women, many without his first wife's knowledge or consent (and one who was "several months" shy of her fifteenth birthday), how the Church denied black members of presumed African descent from holding the priesthood (men) or entering the Temples where ceremonies necessary for exaltation are performed (men and women) for decades without even knowing why they were doing it, and how Joseph told the story of his "First Vision" (one of the epochal events in early LDS history) several times with basic elements of the story varying between tellings. Also how Joseph Smith claimed to translate the then-unknown language of Egyptian into the Book of Abraham, but subsequent review has found many questions about what Joseph knew about Egyptian. Apparently it is important that you read up on these subjects in order to fully understand Mormon doctrine and history. Steve, I've mentioned "the essays" a few times in my responses to you ... The link cinepro has provided here are the essays of which I speak. They are a must read for you. Also note that cinepro (IMO) is an individual worth paying attention to on this site. Most of the time, I can't tell if he's a critic or a saint ... I suppose like all of us, a good mix of both. On 4/5/2016 at 6:05 PM, Steve Noel said: ... just linking up your notify
california boy Posted April 7, 2016 Posted April 7, 2016 35 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said: While you're at it please explain how most OT prophets had multiple wives. How Mary was 12-13 years old when she conceived Jesus. How Priesthood was limited to just the eldest son of a High Priest from the tribe of Levi. How Saul/Paul couldn't get the basics right about his experience on the road to Damascus. Just curious. Where does it say that Mary was 12-13?
salgare Posted April 7, 2016 Posted April 7, 2016 (edited) 19 minutes ago, busybee said: I disagree. He is on the path. Well to you maybe, but an Apostle of the Church of say ... 1970 noted his church was the whore of the earth, so only having a small part of the True and Translated correctly Word of God he is officially wandering around lost. Now the whore of the earth thing was shut down (as well as that nasty preacher in the temple), but even today, by Church doctrine, not having a fullness of the Word of God, including living Oracles, could he have a grasp on the rod? Edited April 7, 2016 by salgare
saemo Posted April 7, 2016 Posted April 7, 2016 On April 4, 2016 at 9:06 PM, Steve Noel said: I have only been here a few days, but it is becoming evident to me that this is not the best place to learn about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. In a previous post Storm Rider brought up the wide range of both LDS & non-LDS heterodoxy here. I have also been cautioned about this from another member through private messaging. I joined under the assumption that I would be mostly interacting with "mainstream" Mormons. Boanerges mentioned in that same thread that LDS.net would be a better place for getting an orthodox LDS viewpoint (he wrote "heterodox," but I think he meant orthodox). So I will primarily be interacting over there. From what I've seen thus far there are some solid LDS folks here who know their stuff. I don't know if that is the case over there. I may chirp in from time to time here, but probably not a whole lot. Thanks. Lds.net is a proselytizing site, which, will makes it comparable to talking to Mormon missionaries. Not saying that is a bad thing, just what it is. But as far as dialogue goes, my opinion is that LDS.net is more like conversing with Mormons in real life, than it is here. There's a lot here of what a former Mormon coworker calls "fringe". 1
thesometimesaint Posted April 7, 2016 Posted April 7, 2016 12 minutes ago, california boy said: Just curious. Where does it say that Mary was 12-13? In ancient Jewish culture females became of age at menses. 12-13 years of age. Males at 14.
thesometimesaint Posted April 7, 2016 Posted April 7, 2016 14 minutes ago, salgare said: Well to you maybe, but an Apostle of the Church of say ... 1970 noted his church was the whore of the earth, so only having a small part of the True and Translated correctly Word of God he is officially wandering around lost. Now the whore of the earth thing was shut down (as well as that nasty preacher in the temple), but even today, by Church doctrine, not having a fullness of the Word of God, including living Oracles, could he have a grasp on the rod? No one individual, or small group of individuals, determines what is doctrine in the Church. SEE http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/approaching-mormon-doctrine
Jeanne Posted April 7, 2016 Posted April 7, 2016 2 hours ago, thesometimesaint said: Not many today know the name Stuart Sutcliffe. He was the fifth Beatle. i do...at least remember him from old books/mags about the Beatles. One would have to wonder if the Beatles would have ever existed if it wasn't for John's fascination with Elvis and the guitar. Oh well..off to Penny Lane with me!
thesometimesaint Posted April 7, 2016 Posted April 7, 2016 Penny Lane was later Beatles. My 23 year old Granddaughter barely knows that 1960's music, even existed. Now I am feeling old.
Jeanne Posted April 7, 2016 Posted April 7, 2016 8 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said: Penny Lane was later Beatles. My 23 year old Granddaughter barely knows that 1960's music, even existed. Now I am feeling old. Oh..me too. The thing is, I can't watch any music awards anymore because I don't know who they are or any real new songs..what can I say..a proud oldie but goodie I am! 1
canard78 Posted April 7, 2016 Posted April 7, 2016 2 hours ago, thesometimesaint said: While you're at it please explain how most OT prophets had multiple wives. How Mary was 12-13 years old when she conceived Jesus. How Priesthood was limited to just the eldest son of a High Priest from the tribe of Levi. How Saul/Paul couldn't get the basics right about his experience on the road to Damascus. Culture. Culture. Culture. Human fallibility. Any more? 1
busybee Posted April 7, 2016 Posted April 7, 2016 2 hours ago, salgare said: Well to you maybe, but an Apostle of the Church of say ... 1970 noted his church was the whore of the earth, so only having a small part of the True and Translated correctly Word of God he is officially wandering around lost. Now the whore of the earth thing was shut down (as well as that nasty preacher in the temple), but even today, by Church doctrine, not having a fullness of the Word of God, including living Oracles, could he have a grasp on the rod? I bet if you asked any apostle today he would agree with me about 3DOP. I was a very small child in 1970 so I have no connection to what was said then. I am more interested in what the leaders of today have to say, and we both know that the whore of the earth or the great and abominable church of the devil is defined as anything that would draw the children of God away from Him. All who are looking to Christ for salvation are on the path as far as I'm concerned. 2
Mystery Meat Posted April 7, 2016 Posted April 7, 2016 31 minutes ago, canard78 said: Culture. Culture. Culture. Human fallibility. Any more? We currently live in a western culture that likes to dismiss other's experiences in the past (or present) based solely on that person's culture. Therefore, the only reason you are dismissing the above without providing a more substantive response is because of your culture. This is fun. 1
consiglieri Posted April 7, 2016 Posted April 7, 2016 3 hours ago, thesometimesaint said: While you're at it please explain how most OT prophets had multiple wives. How Mary was 12-13 years old when she conceived Jesus. How Priesthood was limited to just the eldest son of a High Priest from the tribe of Levi. How Saul/Paul couldn't get the basics right about his experience on the road to Damascus. 1. Most OT prophets did not have multiple wives. In fact, I cannot think of a single instance of such, unless one expands the definition of "prophet" to include patriarchs (Abraham and Jacob) and kings (David and Solomon). 2. We have no scriptural information on how old Mary was when she conceived. 3. Priesthood was given to all males of the tribe of Levi. You may be thinking of the high priesthood. And this entire Levite restriction was likely a late development in Israelite history written back into the text, inasmuch as we read of non-Levites exercising priesthood functions in the Old Testament. 4. We actually don't read what Paul had to say about his experience; rather we read what the author of Luke has Paul say about the experience on three different occasions. Any other questions? This is fun!
mtomm Posted April 7, 2016 Posted April 7, 2016 4 hours ago, thesometimesaint said: Not many today know the name Stuart Sutcliffe. He was the fifth Beatle. Um, yeah, I happen to recognize that name because I've inadvertently been exposed! You can get all their albums on vinyl again, BTW. 1
canard78 Posted April 7, 2016 Posted April 7, 2016 50 minutes ago, Mystery Meat said: We currently live in a western culture that likes to dismiss other's experiences in the past (or present) based solely on that person's culture. Therefore, the only reason you are dismissing the above without providing a more substantive response is because of your culture. This is fun. I didn't dismiss anything. Sometimesaint asked for an explanation of why those things happened. I attributed it to being their cultural norm to marry multiple women, marry young teens and give the priesthood to an exclusive group in their community. That's not a dismissal. What other explanation is there for those three behaviours?
Mystery Meat Posted April 7, 2016 Posted April 7, 2016 45 minutes ago, canard78 said: I didn't dismiss anything. Sometimesaint asked for an explanation of why those things happened. I attributed it to being their cultural norm to marry multiple women, marry young teens and give the priesthood to an exclusive group in their community. That's not a dismissal. What other explanation is there for those three behaviours? Approval from God.
Recommended Posts