Teancum Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 7 hours ago, Keq82 said: I've been lucky to have lived several years of my life overseas and to have visited some of the largest cities (by population) in the world. I’m fascinated with population growth for various countries, especially in India and China. As of right now, there are ~7.4 billion people on earth today. http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/ With regard to the LDS Church, most numbers for total church membership in 2016 are well over 15 million members. To be generous, let’s assume there are 16 million members of the church worldwide. 16 million members 7.4 billion people on earth 16 million / 7.4 billion = 0.00216216216 = less than 1% (.2%) of the world’s population is LDS. “2,173,180,000 Christians (31% of world population), of which 50% are Catholic, 37% Protestant, 12% Orthodox, and 1% other.” http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/#religions Some questions/doubts I’ve always had with some of the doctrine of my church (LDS) are listed below: - With the LDS Church’s claim that we are the ONLY true church on earth, are we claiming that the baptisms for the other 2 billion Christians on earth do not count? - How is it that only less than 1% of the total world’s population is able to enjoy the one true gospel and is considered “saved?” In other words, only those who have been baptized into the LDS Church (in this life or the next) are eligible for salvation, correct? - When we speak of the Gentiles, is that actually 99.8% of the rest of the world? - Now and during the Millennium, are we going to be doing baptisms for the estimated 108 billion people who have ever lived on earth? - With the amount of suffering/poverty in the world, why don’t our missionaries focus primarily on humanitarian work and less on trying to convert souls? - Is the plan of salvation established in such a way that only less than 1% of the entire world’s population is currently qualified to enjoy ALL the blessings of the gospel? I personally believe that God looks on the heart of a person, so he (God) recognizes the baptism of a true believer in a different Christian faith (as controversial as that may be for some LDS members). Further, I think we as members of the LDS church, at times, are too focused today on meaningless meetings, rhetoric, and/or doctrine, when we should be focused on helping those who suffer. Granted the LDS Church does a great deal of humanitarian work today; however, I think it could do so much more with the resources and money it has available. http://www.prb.org/Publications/Articles/2002/HowManyPeopleHaveEverLivedonEarth.aspx Your questions are further problematic when you consider it is likely only 35% to 40% of LDS are active. My only comment is that the One True Church is doing a poor job in becoming the stone cut from the mountain rolling forth to fill the whole earth, 1
UtahTexan Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 1 minute ago, Teancum said: Your questions are further problematic when you consider it is likely only 35% to 40% of LDS are active. My only comment is that the One True Church is doing a poor job in becoming the stone cut from the mountain rolling forth to fill the whole earth, It is doing fine. Free Agency is what it is..... 2
strappinglad Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 Lead by example Keq82 , lead by example. It is becoming more and more apparent that the LDS Church is not living up to the expectations of some current members. They have several options to choose from. A. they can swallow their pride and follow the leadership B. they can stomp their feet and pout C. they can try to change the church to match their expectations D. they can go inactive E. they can find a different organization to support F. they can throw the whole religion business away G. other,none of the above, all or some of the above. " Choose ye this day ... " 2
Keq82 Posted March 24, 2016 Author Posted March 24, 2016 1 minute ago, CountryBoy said: Naaa...you prolly already have eaten..... anyway, I stopped feeding cattle before I went to law school, then served my country until I reached the rank of LTC..... Thanks for your service! I spent nine years in the Marine Corps.
Teancum Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 2 minutes ago, CountryBoy said: It is doing fine. Free Agency is what it is..... Keep telling yourself that. It will make you feel good and confirm your testimony. 1
UtahTexan Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Keq82 said: Thanks for your service! I spent nine years in the Marine Corps. and thank you for yours. My youngest served in the Navy and recently got out after 4. I used to love to visit him just so he had to salute me.... Edited March 24, 2016 by CountryBoy 4
UtahTexan Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 2 minutes ago, Teancum said: Keep telling yourself that. It will make you feel good and confirm your testimony. I do not need to keep telling myself anything. It is what it is....you can keep moaning on a debate board since that makes you feel good. I am just stating facts. 1
mfbukowski Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 7 hours ago, JAHS said: For someone who is LDS your questions sound a lot like someone who is not LDS. Ar you a recent convert? No he just likes to assert that he believes what he apparently does not understand OR believe at all. Interesting I think his questions are passive aggressive. "When did you stop beating your wife?" Even answering them presumes they are actual questions, which of course they are not. 4
Keq82 Posted March 24, 2016 Author Posted March 24, 2016 19 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: No he just likes to assert that he believes what he apparently does not understand OR believe at all. Interesting I think his questions are passive aggressive. "When did you stop beating your wife?" Even answering them presumes they are actual questions, which of course they are not. Ok...I go to church on Sundays because I don't believe.
mfbukowski Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 40 minutes ago, Keq82 said: Thanks for your service! I spent nine years in the Marine Corps. Interesting. Why would you do that?
Teancum Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 42 minutes ago, CountryBoy said: I do not need to keep telling myself anything. It is what it is....you can keep moaning on a debate board since that makes you feel good. I am just stating facts. No moaning here. just sharing my view. Don't like it? Well this is a discussion board.
mfbukowski Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 2 minutes ago, Keq82 said: Ok...I go to church on Sundays because I don't believe. What DO you believe? That's it's one true church?
Keq82 Posted March 24, 2016 Author Posted March 24, 2016 9 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: Interesting. Why would you do that? Unless you have served in the USMC, you will never know. There are only two kinds of people that understand Marines: Marines and the enemy. Everyone else has a second-hand opinion. Gen. William Thornson, U.S. Army
Calm Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 (edited) 3 hours ago, Keq82 said: I'm not going to begin to try to judge how Christ operated... We, as a church, could focus so much more and do so much more to help those who are in need. James 1:27 "Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world." How well do you keep track of what the Church is actually doing? For example the clean water initiative? Or the Just Serve information...have you made use of it if available in your area? Edited March 24, 2016 by Calm 3
Keq82 Posted March 24, 2016 Author Posted March 24, 2016 17 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: What DO you believe? That's it's one true church? It's not that simple...I believe being a member makes me a better person. I think most LDS members are great people. I believe there is great power in the BoM, but I don't believe that actual Nephites, Laminates, etc., ever existed. I hope and believe that the church is true (but don't claim that I know it's true like a lot of other members). I believe in Christ, the atonement, and in serving others. Further, I believe there is a God who created us and the world...but that there is so much that we simply do not know or understand.
mfbukowski Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 8 minutes ago, Keq82 said: Unless you have served in the USMC, you will never know. There are only two kinds of people that understand Marines: Marines and the enemy. Everyone else has a second-hand opinion. Gen. William Thornson, U.S. Army Another non- answer. I was not a Marine, but most of my best friends were or are. I just wanted to see if you would give a straight answer to anything. I guess not.
Keq82 Posted March 24, 2016 Author Posted March 24, 2016 3 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: Another non- answer. I was not a Marine, but most of my best friends were or are. I just wanted to see if you would give a straight answer to anything. I guess not. To serve my country... 1
mfbukowski Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Keq82 said: It's not that simple...I believe being a member makes me a better person. I think most LDS members are great people. I believe there is great power in the BoM, but I don't believe that actual Nephites, Laminates, etc., ever existed. I hope and believe that the church is true (but don't claim that I know it's true like a lot of other members). I believe in Christ, the atonement, and in serving others. Further, I believe there is a God who created us and the world...but that there is so much that we simply do not know or understand. Ok thanks for the answer. You are like many or most here. Does that surprise you? We are not far apart and I consider myself a TBM Edited March 24, 2016 by mfbukowski
mfbukowski Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Keq82 said: To serve my country... How do you know you did? How do you know that belief is "true"? Edited March 24, 2016 by mfbukowski
mfbukowski Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 (edited) Would your country have been better served if you did something else? Do you have evidence that what you did was actually truly best for your country and nothing detrimental? Edited March 24, 2016 by mfbukowski 1
mfbukowski Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 (edited) It is easy to ask critical questions but not so easy to answer when the question presumes you are wrong from the beginning. Edited March 24, 2016 by mfbukowski
Keq82 Posted March 24, 2016 Author Posted March 24, 2016 7 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: Ok thanks for the answer. You are like many or most here. Does that surprise you? We are not far apart and I consider myself a TBM In some ways..yeah. What is a TBM?
Keq82 Posted March 24, 2016 Author Posted March 24, 2016 27 minutes ago, Calm said: How well do you keep track of what the Church is actually doing? For example the clean water initiative? Or the Just Serve information...have you made use of it if available in your area? I've heard of them a bit...but I'm not too familiar. I'll have to check it out.
JAHS Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 20 minutes ago, Keq82 said: but I don't believe that actual Nephites, Laminates, etc., ever existed. I hope and believe that the church is true Not sure you can even believe the church is true without accepting that the events recorded in the Book of Mormon actually happened. It is the keystone of our religion. If the historical aspect of the document is a lie, isn't it possible that the doctrines are also wrong? 1
Keq82 Posted March 24, 2016 Author Posted March 24, 2016 8 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: Would your country have been better served if you did something else? Do you have evidence that what you did was actually truly best for your country and nothing detrimental? I wouldn't change a thing for the world. The world is a better place for what we do in the long run.
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