alemanrc Posted January 30, 2016 Posted January 30, 2016 Recently a group of Elders found an inactive couple who had been gone from the church for ten years. The couple spoke about their experiences while attending church during the first 6 months of their conversion date. This couple received all the new lessons and were eager to move forward with eventually temple endowment. After a Sunday afternoon, they ran into a long time member who, shall we say, was not the most friendly and supportive person. This long time member told the new member family that in order for them to be fully converted to the gospel, one had to abandon all sin and become disciples of God. The long time member was already familiar with the new family, and knew some of their past lifestyle choice that were not within church guidelines. Of course the new family had been baptized and were confused and a bit anger that they did not feel welcomes or supported by the long time member. Ashamed, the new family stopped attending church. When others visited the family, they had moved and were never heard of. Elder Bednar tells us we are all agents endowed with moral agency. For the new member however, this is not yet understood, or not yet developed. A new member seeks the support; friendship, and guidance of others to build their faith to eventually be fully converted. The long time member was a 30 year member, and always speaks about his love and support of others. In Alma chapter 6, Pahoran gives great example of not being offended by others, or at the very least, show love in return. How difficult is it for us to fully use our agency give love and understanding to those that have offended us? Where do we draw the line if there is one? Do we turn the other cheek or do we defend ourselves?
Bernard Gui Posted January 30, 2016 Posted January 30, 2016 It's good to remember that we are all sinners and fall short of the measure of the Lord Jesus Christ, and to repeat often the prayer, "Lord, be merciful to me, a sinner." As Brigham Young once said, "It's best that each man learn to mind his own business." 2
The Nehor Posted January 31, 2016 Posted January 31, 2016 If you are expecting me to judge either party based on this vague story then.......no.
Maidservant Posted January 31, 2016 Posted January 31, 2016 When others have become offended by me to the point of struggling with their church attendance or something similar, I find it based also on their idea that I am some measure of perfection that has betrayed them, instead of seeing me as a total slob and weak child who struggles minute to minute. I am not a "long time church member". I am a "church member who keeps showing up despite being totally broken hearted by life, church, people, self, fill-in-the-blank". Really I'm nothing. I want to say to them, "If I've offended you, please let me know so that *I* can stay home, so that your church experience is safe (i.e. doesn't include me). *I'll* stay out of *your* church experience. Just let me know." I've almost stopped going to church several times on that basis. So far I still go, mostly for one of my sons who I am still raising in my home (second to last) who loves the church. My youngest son could care less about church, ha ha. So I'm actually curious about what choices I'm going to make once the second-to-last moves out; what kind of head, heart, spirit space I'll be in then and whether or not it includes church attendance or other participation. I also switch this attitude. If I become offended by someone so that my church experience doesn't feel safe, I try to remember that they are just a 'slob' too trying to figure crap out. Reason I use the term 'slob' is because of the Joan Osborne song, "What if God was one of us? Just a slob like one of us . . . trying to make his way home?" 2
Ahab Posted January 31, 2016 Posted January 31, 2016 I have a feeling that some people's idea of what it means to be "the most friendly and supportive person" isn't what most people can be to most of the people on this planet when they have a family to take care of and a job to go to and from and they use what little time they have left to try to be at least a little bit helpful to other some people. And I think most people are doing very well and justifiably good enough if they are usually "the most friendly and supportive person" to only their immediate family members while being only polite and courteous, usually, to everyone else they encounter. Each of us does have our own moral agency to be however we want to be, and to be fit for the kingdom of God we each have to give up all of our own sins and become righteous people. And the excuse that somebody they know is or was not "the most friendly and supportive person to me so I stopped doing what I needed to do to be a good person myself" is and is always going to be a very lousy excuse for why someone decided not to do all they could manage to do to be a good person themselves, with the help of our Savior. 2
Bobbieaware Posted January 31, 2016 Posted January 31, 2016 (edited) 21 hours ago, alemanrc said: Recently a group of Elders found an inactive couple who had been gone from the church for ten years. The couple spoke about their experiences while attending church during the first 6 months of their conversion date. This couple received all the new lessons and were eager to move forward with eventually temple endowment. After a Sunday afternoon, they ran into a long time member who, shall we say, was not the most friendly and supportive person. This long time member told the new member family that in order for them to be fully converted to the gospel, one had to abandon all sin and become disciples of God. The long time member was already familiar with the new family, and knew some of their past lifestyle choice that were not within church guidelines. Of course the new family had been baptized and were confused and a bit anger that they did not feel welcomes or supported by the long time member. Ashamed, the new family stopped attending church. When others visited the family, they had moved and were never heard of. Elder Bednar tells us we are all agents endowed with moral agency. For the new member however, this is not yet understood, or not yet developed. A new member seeks the support; friendship, and guidance of others to build their faith to eventually be fully converted. The long time member was a 30 year member, and always speaks about his love and support of others. In Alma chapter 6, Pahoran gives great example of not being offended by others, or at the very least, show love in return. How difficult is it for us to fully use our agency give love and understanding to those that have offended us? Where do we draw the line if there is one? Do we turn the other cheek or do we defend ourselves? In order to comment upon the above situation more intelligently and insightfully, it would be good to have more information. For example, I'm wondering if this couple ever married. It would also be good to hear the other side of the story from the point of view of the long-time member. Over the years I've learned it's best to not form an opinion about petty disagreements and more serious interpersonal conflicts without hearing both sides of the story. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there isn't a good possibility the long-time member was out of line and unmerciful, but I've also learned it isn't unusual for the less than faithful to look for convenient excuses to cut ties with the Church. But in spite of all I've said thus far, it pretty much goes without saying that it's best for imperfect sinners, as all of us are, to ere on the side of being compassionate, kind and merciful. Edited January 31, 2016 by Bobbieaware 1
Traela Posted January 31, 2016 Posted January 31, 2016 21 hours ago, alemanrc said: The long time member was a 30 year member, and always speaks about his love and support of others. Call me cynical, but I tend to be suspicious of anyone who broadcasts his "virtues" like that. In my experience, people who are actually good at something, especially gospel-related, tend to be more modest about it. 2
theplains Posted January 31, 2016 Posted January 31, 2016 We all have the fallen nature because of Adam. Regards, Jim
Ahab Posted February 1, 2016 Posted February 1, 2016 3 hours ago, Traela said: Call me cynical, but I tend to be suspicious of anyone who broadcasts his "virtues" like that. In my experience, people who are actually good at something, especially gospel-related, tend to be more modest about it. Yeah I think that's true. I for one am usually fairly modest about most of my virtues.
The Nehor Posted February 1, 2016 Posted February 1, 2016 4 hours ago, Ahab said: Yeah I think that's true. I for one am usually fairly modest about most of my virtues. You have virtues?
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